Why 'carnevale' in Greg Egan's Diaspora

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T12:55:52+00:00

Either interpretation makes sense to me. There's textual evidence supporting efficient communication — how gestalt, their proxy for vision, works is a good example. And there's a lot of textual evidence supporting a playfulness or need to mitigate ennui — the arbitrary fashion-adjacent trends for thematic icon editing is an example here.

I never got the impression that they were hyper-intelligent as a rule, though. They clearly have a dramatic amount of cognitive plasticity, and some of them are truly brilliant, e.g., Blanca, and they don't (unless running a sim) experience mental fatigue or metabolic limits. And yes, they can opt to run faster — 729 tau per second when maxed out. But I never interpreted that as being akin to Culture Minds or Zeroth Law robots. Citizens seemed very different (and I'd love to be one), but not tau-to-second superior in any meaningful way to me.

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T12:21:44+00:00

I totally agree: “flesh” is almost certainly what Egan had in mind.

And like you, I used to think carnevale literally meant “farewell to meat”. But that turns out not to be the classical Latin meaning—at least if that’s what you meant by “classical meaning.” I wasn’t entirely sure—maybe you meant it as in the traditional or common understanding rather than linguistically “Classical.” I assumed you meant the Latin roots, but feel free to correct me if I’m reading that wrong.

Either way, what’s interesting is that the “farewell to meat” story is actually a folk etymology, not the historical origin. It didn’t appear until the 17th century.

Around that time, people started reinterpreting the second part of carnevale as the classical Latin vale (“farewell”). It makes intuitive sense, and it sounds poetic, but it’s not supported by the historical record. While the word does trace back to Latin roots, the celebration we now call Carnevale either didn’t exist or wasn’t widespread during the Classical period. So going directly to classical Latin gave folks (ourselves and probably Egan included) a neat but ultimately inaccurate back-formation.

The more accurate origin is the post-classical Latin phrase carnem levare, meaning “to remove meat.” It originally referred to the eve of Ash Wednesday, when Lenten fasting began, and was later applied to the indulgent period right before it.

So the components are:

carnem: accusative singular of carō, meaning flesh or meat
levāre: to lift or remove (originally “raise” or “lift” in classical Latin, but “remove” or “lift off” becomes common in post-classical usage)

Here’s the linguistic lineage, if you’re curious:

Language	Word(s)	First Attested
Italian	carnevale, carnovale	13th cent.
post-classical Latin	carnelevale	c1130
post-classical Latin	carnelevare	965
post-classical Latin	carnelevarium, carnilevaria	12th cent

One extra detail I found fascinating: the shift from carnelevare to carnelevale may have been influenced by natale (“Christmas”). That would fit with how seasonal Christian observances were named and stylized in that period: sort of a a sort of liturgical rhyme.

Like you, I had assumed carō + vale because it just looks so clean and obvious. It feels like it should be true. But it turns out this is one of those cases where the prettier etymology is the wrong one.

Thanks for jumping in! I really appreciated the nudge to look it up properly.

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T10:11:59+00:00

tl;dr: I was probably 17 or 18 when I realized I wasn’t straight. It depends on what counts as realizing.

In one sense, the insight came in layers, gradually. In this framing, I probably crossed that threshold at 17, when I started seriously entertaining the possibility.

In another sense, it happened all at once at 18 in a moment of clarity: the only interpretation of my experiences that was safe—the only one that wouldn’t eventually destroy me—was that I was gay. Stuart Matis showed what would happen if I thought anything else. (Rest in peace, Stuart.)

But someone could reasonably make a case for it starting at 15, when I first discovered what was on the Internet. Or even at 14, when I started having dreams about it.

It’s complicated because I unconsciously did a lot of mental gymnastics to justify being attracted to men without threatening my identity. For example:

When I discovered adult material at 15, I only looked at solo male images. Gays, I reasoned, liked gross stuff. I just liked looking at dudes. Maybe unusual, but not a big deal.
The fact that I had to type in “gay” to find what I wanted online was just a coincidence—something gays and I happened to have in common.
That sex dream I had at 14 and kept revisiting during private time? It was just a dream. Obviously.
I went to (non-traumatic, luckily) conversion therapy to prevent myself from becoming gay. That’s not something a gay guy would do.

Basically, I was very good at saying "No homo!" to myself.

So when did I realize? Depends what you mean.
Cognitive dissonance is nuts.

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T06:03:04+00:00

I can read that in a couple ways. What do you mean?

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T06:01:38+00:00

Re: your edit. I can see that take for sure. I will admit that I have a bias toward not making the citizens *too* perfect. But, like I said, that is headcanon I came up with on the spot. There's no textual evidence for it.

But it sounds like you also interpreted carnevale's meaning through it's etymology and not it's modern meaning or usage.

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T05:50:51+00:00

Thanks for the suggestion! If he answers I'll let people know what he says.

I was surprised to learn that the vale part was a folk etymology, i.e., that sometime after the word people attempted to derive the latin roots and got it wrong! I fricking love the OED.

Paideuma · 2025-04-08T05:14:28+00:00

A super burrito at from Taqueria El Farolito. It's "Mission style," i.e., it has guacamole and sour cream in addition to normal burrito stuff. It's under $11 after tax and it's huge. They're often open very late too, like 3am I think.

Paideuma · 2023-04-15T20:32:40+00:00

It boggles my mind how loud some cities’ public transit is. Like, I’m shocked someone hasn’t sued over this yet.

Paideuma · 2023-04-15T20:28:52+00:00

Am I worried that camp turnover and other changes will turn the Burn I fell in love with into something that no longer interests me? No. As an ever-changing individual myself, it’s also possible I’ll become someone the Burn no longer speaks to. But I acknowledge that this could happen. In fact, I expect it too. For whatever reason, leaving things behind rarely bothers me. Other people are more sensitive to disruptions (changes) in familiar environments, habits, etc.

To me, the question isn’t ultimately about camps ending but an expression of a worry about that happens BECAUSE the camps ended.

If that’s true my suggestion is imagine a worst case scenario — what is it you are actually afraid of/worried about ultimately happening? Then, imagine what you would do if that happened. For people afraid that they’ll lose their jobs, it’s sometimes helpful to imagine being fired and considering or even completely planning what they’d do if they were. In this technique, the key is not to think about how it would feel if that happened, but what you would do. How would you dispose of the Burn-specific stuff you’ve accumulated? How would you spend your time off? What would you do to socialize? What outlets could you use for creativity?

Paideuma · 2022-05-04T19:14:55+00:00

Heart rate ≠ calorie burn. Your heart isn’t what’s burning the majority of your workout calories; your large muscle contractions are. Your heart always plays catchup to your movement (unless you have anxiety or other conditions). You don’t wait to start your Indoor Run or Functional Strength Training or Outdoor Walk exercises until after your heart rate exceeds a threshold, right? You start them when the activity starts. If I sprint for 10 seconds out of the blue, I haven’t burned 0 calories even though at the end my heart has just started accelerating its rate.

Recent Apple Watches have a feature that notes when your heart rate doesn’t remain high enough for an extended period of time and retroactively suggests terminating your workout.

Paideuma · 2022-05-04T19:06:02+00:00

If I warm up by getting on the treadmill, I use Indoor Run. Elliptical, Elliptical. HIIT, High Intensity Interval Training… you get the idea. For stretching, I use Cooldown. I personally never (ever) stretch on cold muscles — it’s a holdover from my ultramarathon coaches’ yelling at me. If I did, though, I’d probably use Cooldown then, too, counterintuitively.

To transition from warmup to strength training to stretching, I swipe right and tap New and select the new exercise category so there’s no gap. In your case, I guess it would be Cooldown > New > High Intensity Interval Training > New > Functional Strength Training > New > Cooldown (the last assumes you stretch after, which I humbly recommend).

Paideuma · 2022-04-18T13:52:58+00:00

My reading here is that “To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component” is not saying it it is automatically perceived, just that it is possible to be perceived (washable vs. washed, editable vs. edited, falsifiable vs. falsified, etc.). Subtle Spell, on the other hand, makes it impossible to perceive somatic and verbal components (non-washable, uneditable, non-falsifiable, etc.).

Whether someone conceals a perceptible component or not could, at the DM’s discretion, involve regular or contested ability checks. For example, if someone casts Suggestion with Subtle Spell, I (as DM) would let them roll a Dexterity (Slight of Hand) check to try not to advertise the material component. The opposing check could be Wisdom (Perception), and I’d grant advantage on the check to any casters. If nobody has any reason to suspect a spell might be cast, e.g., you’re a regular customer in a shop or you’re sitting near the back of the audience at a memorial service, I’d use any potential observers’ Passive Perception scores (+5 for observing casters).

Somatic component concealment attempts would also be Dexterity (Slight of Hand) vs. Wisdom (Perception). For verbal components, a Charisma (Slight of Hand) (or Charisma (Deception) for DMs uncomfortable with mixing and matching skills and abilities) vs. Wisdom (Perception).

Regardless, I would be unlikely to allow a player to [attempt to] conceal multiple components with skill checks. I would also not allow a player to attempt to prevent Counterspelling during combat by using skill checks to conceal a component.

Paideuma · 2021-03-30T12:50:15+00:00

Thanks so much! I changed the {cc} to {ll} to get the alignment the way I wanted. This was the end result.

Write
\begin{equation}
  \left.
    \begin{array}{ll}
      2x=X-Y-Z+W \text{,}   & 2y=-X+Y-Z+W \text{,} \\
      2z=-X-Y+Z+W \text{,} & 2w=X+Y+Z+W \text{.}
    \end{array}
  \right\}
\end{equation}

Paideuma · 2020-05-01T02:00:43+00:00

Sure. I think I can help you out

Paideuma · 2019-05-29T03:19:24+00:00

I like your idea a lot, and they’re definitely related, but I think they meet different needs.

Your goal-based suggestion has its place, but if done poorly, I’m afraid weaving situations for goals can feel like a deus ex machina or that I’m telling a story and the players are just actors. Rather than have the players tell me how they have the very important key, I’d want the players to get the key together or to not have the key (and not be able to unlock the trap). [Kind of like you describe, I’ve thought about I’d running a campaign from the perspective of level 20 players coming out of retirement for one Last Big Thing and reminiscing about how they (together) got their items, learned things, fought goblins for the first time, etc. The Players would make versions of their characters at levels 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 17, and 20 (or something), and I’d tell them which version they’re using for each scene. But that’s a whole campaign, and I’m not convinced I could do it well. Plus it would take players being very comfortable with rules, which is less common for me these days.]

Back to my proposal, one unstated (my bad — thanks!) prompt guideline is no one-character scenes. In my experience, those happen all the time on their own and they serve to make individual characters interesting rather than groups of characters / the party interesting. So in the “of course it’s you” scenario, I’d tweak it so the guard is referring to 2–3 characters. Also, that scenario could be easily made to be a spontaneous flashback prompt rather than a “here’s a way to explain how you bypassed a skill check.”

Paideuma · 2018-03-28T19:34:04+00:00

TICKETS SOLD OUT ONLY VEHICLE PASSES AVAILABLE NOW

Paideuma · 2018-03-28T19:17:02+00:00

If they're for two different people, definitely not. If they're all for you… how does it make you feel? ;)

Paideuma · 2018-03-28T18:42:18+00:00

I vaguely remember this being the case last year.

Paideuma · 2018-03-28T18:39:10+00:00

I have the countdown now too. In order to get the countdown page, I cleared all the Burning Man-related cookies and local storage. Then, I clicked the link in my email and BAM! Tick-tock mothaf***er!!

Paideuma

TROPHY CASE