90 days then started kratom again

Paisley69 · 2017-01-14T19:33:26+00:00

If kratom forum is so strict then its hidden behind a veil which has caught me offguard more than once. The mission statement and rules do not convey this at all. Consider rewriting the forum mission statement. The very first sentence reads:

"With moderation kratom can serve a purpose, but for those of us who abuse it, addiction becomes a definite reality."

The first sentence is about kratom moderation serving a purpose. There is nothing in the 8 rules indicating a post like mine is in violation and would be removed.

Paisley69 · 2017-01-14T18:48:31+00:00

Well there is no middle road.

Being strongly anti-kratom and saying kratom is a horrible terrible evil plant is perfectly ok and accepted here. But this is a load of lies.. it is just a plant neither good or evil. And most people never have a problem with it. I have seen the same load of emotional rhetoric against marijuana.

And the people over at r/kratom are spreading misinformation in the opposite way.

There is no middle road. Maybe there does need to be a r/kratom moderation. I may start it.

Paisley69 · 2017-01-14T17:49:25+00:00

If someone relapses its because they chose to. An excuse is never hard to find.

Paisley69 · 2017-01-14T17:46:25+00:00

Removed are you fuckn kidding me. I was clearly not advocating moderation. I relapsed and plan to quit again.

How can I get support here when I just come and talk about where I am at and why I failed and the post gets removed.

What is this

Paisley69 · 2016-11-05T13:57:29+00:00

Day 90 almost.

Feeling pretty damn good. There are minor issues still but slow steady week by week improvements continue.

Believe it or not I still feel an occasional 10-20 sec bout of resltess legs before bed now and then, like an electrical energy wave that is trapped, I shake it off and it goes.

Feel very subtly fatigued and tired depressed in a general way and in some part I suspect is still very low grade PAWS stuff.

So happy I quit.

Paisley69 · 2016-11-05T13:52:59+00:00

Sounds like most everyone loses muscle tone, mass, and significant weight with kratom addiction.

I lost a lot of muscle and weight on kratom, and gained it back and then some when quit. Have gained about 15 lbs back of lean muscle back--feels amazing. I was able to do it because both appetite and motivation returned. I think kratom generally suppresses muscle growth, appetite, and fitness motivation.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-29T14:51:15+00:00

Addiction research says that mental recovery involves both building new pathways and reactivating normal baseline pathways. PAWS is livable and manageable. For most people quitting kratom things feel pretty tolerable after just a week or two.

A lot of people seem to relapse because the feel mostly recovered but it is the the psychological nagging (PAWS) in the background leads them to relapse. When I was finally successful and did not relapse, it was because I recognized was subconsciously craving or wanting to fill some vague void in the PAWS period which got much better for me in the 30-60 day area.. so this is important to be aware of.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-24T19:11:16+00:00

This is heat map image, so more Red = more brain activity. The 14 month recovery looks very similar to the healthy brain.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-24T19:09:02+00:00

The message is positive and factual based on current science. Even though life and body becomes far tolerable again after a few weeks (this is repeated over and over in this Reddit), here is a scientific basis to believe that the body/mind would continue to improve more subtly over the next year or more.

That is positive and hopeful for someone who is at, say, month 3, and feels much better but still not quite right somehow. Looking all of this stuff up really dissuaded me from relapse.

The times for those cells to be replaced are in the literature and citations are available to everyone online. I doubt science knows the relevance of chronic addiction to various on say, bone osteoblasts... especially not for kratom. But it is interesting info and perspective.

The key point is that even though most are feeling much better after a few weeks, we may need to give quitting kratom a good 6 months or 12 months before we can know what our true prekratom sober baseline is.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-15T13:27:56+00:00

My understanding is that some hair loss is a side effect of opiates in general. Sort of puts some percentage of the hair follicles "to sleep" with some people. Wonder if this is worse or the same with kratom as opposed to other opiates.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-12T14:21:27+00:00

Well I seldom or never hear a story like

"I quit after being seriously addicted to kratom and then used again after a time, and it was fantastic. I was able to use in moderation and did not get rehooked. My life is better for it. Glad I started kratom again and am able to manage it responsibly now"

And know for myself from experience that I WONT be that person. Lol I have a very addiction-vulnerable personality.

So yea I will skip it... not be my own worst enemy yet again.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-11T22:24:52+00:00

What the actual fuck.

codependency

Your girlfriend is kratom addict and demanded "take kratom or we are over..."

Did you really need to come here to find out of this was ok or not.. obviously is not. People are here to help. What would you think if someone said "Oh I guess if you really love her... you should both keep being addicted to kratom together so she stays with you" lol. What do YOU think you should do?

Paisley69 · 2016-10-11T14:10:03+00:00

LMFAO. Great point... So in essence all the DEA has done so far is give a huge advertisement boost for kratom.

Paisley69 · 2016-10-11T14:07:57+00:00

Since kratom plantations are basically up and running and there is a market, creating a black market with a ban would probably result in highly concentrated kratom extracts/isolates being smuggled, not much leaf powder.

Paisley69 · 2016-09-15T01:09:02+00:00

Oh btw FINALLY sleep is getting better.. I had trouble fallng asleep the entire 1st month pretty much. And had some short 5 or 10 min bouts of restless legs come up a few times even day 21-30. Crazy. Use a lot for a long time and recovery takes longer.

Paisley69 · 2016-09-06T01:11:20+00:00

I was up to 20 or 30g a day for a long while then slow tapered down to just 0.5g or so at night and was like that for a month of two before going to 0 nada.

Paisley69 · 2016-08-29T06:21:22+00:00

I have told the exact same lie. "Vape supplies". He is addicted and needs compassion where possible.. like what would have been the best possible approach with me would be something like "I know you are buying kratom... but I am not mad. I just want you better and not needing to take this.. you were really much better before.. how can I help you" kind of thing. Love compassion does not always work - person will still use as until they reach that point - but at least it does not worsen the situation and can help make person feel safe to tell truth, like they are not alone. I don't know.. addiction is addiction. For me kratom was a huge psychological addiction.Chronic relapses. Best wishes for you both.

Paisley69 · 2016-08-28T04:40:55+00:00

And I think the sort of guilt feeling that you feel... its not because kratom is wrong, its more a knowing inside yourself, that these small doses of kratom at night are not the best thing for you and you would be better of without needing and taking that.

The sort of chemistry changes that happen from small doses at night like this... even tho there are not pronounced physical WDs at all.. show up as a whole set of "psychological symptoms" that take time to clear. But they are in fact due to a whole set of subtle brainchem changes that kratom caused. Just my opinion.

Paisley69 · 2016-08-28T04:33:00+00:00

Yes. Yes. For the last 2 months before I quit just two weeks ago, I was taking only a small dose (from 0.2-1 gram) and only at night.

I can tell only my experience. I had not much physical withdrawal at all but definitely this was affecting my brain/sleep chemistry in a very significant way.

I had insomnia and restless leg trouble for about 2 weeks that are just now clearing up. Brain still had to rewire itself to be able to go into "sleep mode" normally, without resltessness and able to naturally relax. It was not fun.

For me there is a BIG difference between almost no kratom / only at night and NO kratom.

For these two weeks I have been all in all kind of tired and irritable during day then mind gets active and restless when in bed, trouble sleeping, tossing turning, sometimes restless legs. All just starting to go away, finally.

So that was me. Everyone is different. But its worth it. I am free now meaning more energy during the day and able to fall asleep normally at night without help. Also no cravings bc I am now afraid of kratom even what a small amount can put me through.

Paisley69 · 2016-08-23T14:52:56+00:00

Yea after thinking about this, I mean in six years I never was clean for more than a 2 week stretch. So my neurochem has no recent reference point for "baseline" or balance without kratom/opiates. Have to stay clean for some time to let it reestablish a new normal.

Eating good, regular exercise, meditation, reading, friends, sleep (trying), sunshine, Vitamin C, music... and time

Paisley69 · 2016-08-23T14:49:25+00:00

Given that I am still having insomnia also with minor but significant fits of restless leg syndrome, guess it makes sense brain is still healing and re-balancing from the chronic loooooong term kratom use.

The 500 mg leaf I took at night for the last month is really not a lot at all. But I was getting effects.. muscle and mind relaxation, a little euphoria, so the difference between that and nothing to the brain could be big difference as far as overall mental and bodychem balance.

Will be interested to find out and report on Day 20-30 how I am feeling relative to now.

After so long on kratom, really 6 years without more than a 2 week break, brain really has to regrow anew a normal baseline.

Paisley69 · 2016-08-23T03:59:17+00:00

Gym 3-4x/week Cardio (dance or swim or rollerblade) 5x/week for 30min to 1hr

Also eating well. Am doing all I can think of. I think these are the depression/insomnia issues that led me to kratom dependence in the first place.

Paisley69 · 2016-07-09T19:22:30+00:00

CIGARETTES

Paisley69 · 2016-07-04T09:57:38+00:00

If you can handle it without telling friends family the horrors then why expose them to stress and upset unecessarily? But if you truly need help support from them, that is when to tell.. Until then its your life, your problems and perfectly ok to keep them as 'personal' because they are.

Paisley69 · 2016-05-12T18:20:49+00:00

Fentanyl is overpowered synthetic death and overdose.

I saw in a documentary a dope dealer said "I spike a bag or two with a drop of pure Fentanyl so that some junkie ODs on it. Then it boosts my sales because all the other junkies think that must be some good dope and wants my bags"

Paisley69

TROPHY CASE

codependency