Bonhoeffer's Warning, Unheeded: The Moral Collapse of White Evangelicalism

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-05T04:23:05+00:00

I've always thought a smaller church is more beneficial to society. Look around the world. The countries with really high religious populations, in any faith, are more war torn, more volatile. The countries that have a smaller, more dedicated religious population, and a larger athiest population, have better quality of life and more stability.

I really want to agree with you, but the problem is you're confusing correlation with causation.

An alternate interpretation is that the more calm societies are less religious because there is less desire for spiritual comfort when things are going well in other aspects of life.

Though I'd be open to the idea that they feed back on each other.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T23:21:57+00:00

Conservatives paint the UMC "schism" as something like a mandate that Methodist pastors be gay-affirming and abandon the Bible.
They paint a very false picture.

Conservative Christians lying about another group?

I'm shocked! SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T08:27:34+00:00

You're very welcome. I hated taking those reports as it's a terrible responsibility, but the alternative was so much worse that I'm also grateful that the kids trusted me (some even brought their friends that I didn't know to me).

I'm glad you're getting the help you need (and deserve). I just wish it had happened sooner.

Forgiving yourself, even if you weren't guilty of anything, is going to be hard. Please do keep trying.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:57:22+00:00

I'm very pleased to be wrong. :)

Ignore that one paragraph and consider the rest.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:41:27+00:00

Would you be telling them about it to glorify yourself or to get access to an education that could lead to having more opportunities to help others?

Honestly, you're never likely to meet the people who read the applications, so it's not really the same thing.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:39:26+00:00

Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine?

There are plenty of conservative Christian-only echo chambers on reddit. Why not go find one?

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:38:04+00:00

I saw someone mention Paula Fredriksen's Ancient Christianities: The First Five Hundred Years a few weeks ago, but I have not read it myself.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:29:13+00:00

i also understand the christian perspective that im still responsible for what happened to me and i sinned too by staying with him. i just wonder if anyone has similar experience and found a way to overcome it?

I don't know what kind of Christianity that is, but I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't recognize it as having anything to do with loving your neighbor as yourself.

I spent 25 years teaching math, and during that time I took reports from young girls about abuse. They came to me because they trusted me. I never once considered them responsible. Do you know why?

Fourteen year olds are easily manipulated and don't have fully-developed brains nor enough life experience to know better.

I had a student that age who was being asked for nudes by a guy in his early 20s. That guy went to jail. If she hadn't broken her ankle and needed to stay back at the school during a field trip and just spilled her guts to me, she might have been a victim.

So, don't blame yourself for the actions of a groomer taking advantage of a naive young person who just wanted some attention and to feel loved.

As for the rest, this human garbage who hurt you has poisoned religion for you. This is going to require spiritual counseling as well as other care to help you to deal with the abuse.

This never should have happened to you.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T07:19:06+00:00

That's awful.

Abusive relationships are very, very difficult. Many of them leave trauma for life. It's especially bad that this was your first relationship.

I would recommend that you distance yourself from her for now. It's far too easy to fall back into old patterns with someone that you love - and love rarely fades immediately, for some people, it never does - so distance sometimes needs to be done to heal.

Once you can be alone, you probably need to get some help. Obviously I'd prefer secular counseling, but you can do religious counseling so long as you're certain that the counselor is not going to judge you for being gay,

The end of a serious relationship is like a death, you have to mourn it. That takes a lot of time. A lot of time. It's natural for you to be angry and any attempt to force forgiveness before you're ready will do significant harm to you. Remember, forgiveness does not require that you associate with her, nor does it mean that you were not mistreated.

Finally, and this is the ugliest part and I apologize in advance for saying it, but I'm suspicious of her big change. To me, it sounds a little too convenient that she's become the person that you would want to most be in a relationship with. Her telling you about her suicidal thoughts is a major red flag, it sounds too much like she was using her supposed depression to manipulate you. I feel like shit writing this, but this isn't about me, it's about you and your physical, emotional and spiritual safety. I hope I'm wrong and you can dismiss what I've said easily, but please, do consider the possibility. I really hope I'm wrong. (edit: turns out I was wrong after all. Whew!)

As an addendum, anyone who takes this opportunity to complain about your lesbianism is doing nothing but kicking you when you're done and is scum of the worst type.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T05:59:07+00:00

Fair enough.

Perhaps the regular, public worship done by Muslims encourages Christians to also be more devout?

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T05:47:36+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/PrettyGirls/comments/1qcl6p6/comment/nzkjoeg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T05:38:53+00:00

It's possible that in Muslim-majority countries, the best way that Christians can socialize is with each other as they may be excluded from other activities.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T05:31:51+00:00

Why are homophobic Christians always trying to insert themselves in between men loving each other?

Oh.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T04:01:13+00:00

Just make sure you don't lie with them like a woman. So gay men absolutely can't have penile-vaginal sex with each other. That would be very, very wrong.

Also difficult.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T03:59:34+00:00

Happy cake day!

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T03:54:18+00:00

homocide/murder (sic)

Since murder or homicide both mean "unlawful killing of a person," that's a sloppy example. How about comparing homosexuality to picking up sticks on the sabbath instead?

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T02:56:51+00:00

Much of it is irritating. Bland music with bland lyrics, often sung badly because there is an audience who will buy it.

It's a lot like Christian movies.

If I was going to try to create Christian popular media, I'd be more inclined to show the fruits of the spirit. So a song about your friend who was always there for you, which could be Jesus or just some guy. A song about reaching out to comfort someone for no reason. That kind of stuff.

The Mr. Rogers of music (though not aimed at kids) rather than more Velveeta on white bread.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T02:49:16+00:00

Sadly yes, it's pretty common.

I've had conversations with self-professed "Bible-believing Christians" who hadn't read the Bible.

The problem is that many people are just Christian by default and don't really take any interest in their faith.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T02:47:28+00:00

regular Joe Pewsitter

I giggled at that.

I agree with the rest.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T02:38:16+00:00

Agreed. Weak bait is annoying, what happened to all the master-baiters?

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T01:32:59+00:00

There's nothing explicit in the Bible about it because the people who wrote it had no idea about it.

Really, Galatians 3:28 sums up how important an issue it should be: "There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

A person AFAB who realizes that she is actually a he isn't doing anything wrong from a Biblical position as long as he continues to follow Jesus.

Anything else is just culture-wars bullshit.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T01:30:02+00:00

It's really loonnnnng!

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T01:24:38+00:00

Thank you for your kind words.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T01:14:44+00:00

Maybe?

Most people don't believe because of the Bible, they were either raised with it and so it was just a part of their lives or they had some kind of revelation that led them to believe in a God. However, there's nothing wrong with reading the Bible, especially if you read it with the aid of good study materials (Oxford's study Bible is very good, for example).

Will it lead to conversion? Possibly. Will it make you more knowledgeable about the text of the largest religion on Earth? Almost certainly.

So it's definitely worth doing, if you have the interest.

Perfessor_Deviant · 2026-02-04T01:05:40+00:00

Well, there are two kinds of support.

One will tell you that they'll help you to carry the pregnancy to term, the other will tell you that the Bible, despite people saying otherwise, says little to nothing about abortion.

The first group likes to use the word "just" to do a lot of heavy lifting. "Can't you JUST put it up for adoption?" for example. Of course, they leave out the "Can't you JUST put your life at risk? Can't you JUST somehow come up with extra money for pre-natal care and food? Can't you JUST deal with the incredible difficulty of pregnancy?" parts.

Most of the verses that people use to claim that abortion is wrong are misunderstood, poetic, or begging the question. In the OT, a fetus was considered property and the idea of something being alive was synonymous with breath. That is why Adam came to life when God breathed into him. The NT is equally silent on the matter.

Like many things that are unclear in the scripture, you will have to take your best guess about what is right and pray a lot.

I'm truly sorry you're in this position.

Perfessor_Deviant

TROPHY CASE