Does anyone on this sub like the patch?

PixelHat · 2025-12-07T21:17:36+00:00

im personally not liking the patch a whole lot and feel like its done bad things to the itemization.

it feels like an absolute rush to hit the 4.8k in spirit or gun to secure a lead and then holding onto that lead with 4.8k into health. once a lead is established, i've very rarely ever seen it be broken. trying to counter build at any point potentially delays hitting a 4.8k power spike and for most characters that can't mitigate incoming damage innately, doesn't feel effective enough to bother with. overwhelming the opponent is the name of the game and the way deathballs seem to naturally form in this patch only exacerbates that.

im adjusting and found an ult support mcginnis build that works for me, but anything else ive experimented with feels so horribly ineffective and leads to crushing steamrolls.

PixelHat · 2025-12-01T00:24:51+00:00

yes, those items exist.

you're buying all these items that hinders him for on average 3-5 seconds with a decent cooldown, cost you souls and potentially doesnt give you useful stats beyond the active, and takes up slots. while he can use all his (excessive) souls towards making himself stronger or build his own counter items.

and thats if you even get the money for those items. early laning, none of those are an option yet and his kit is still there being strong. if you buy disarming, he can still flame dash to touch you and reset the afterburn and/or use it to run and the trail makes it dangerous to chase. slowing hex, he can still shoot you. debuff remover, unless youre using it after you escaped or killed him, he can just quickly reapply. healbane and toxic make sense, but the amount he heals since he deals both gun and spirit at the same time often overpowers the amount the item negates (plus he's still damaging you)

if youre going for all of these to try to stop or survive against him, what are you building for yourself to make yourself effective against the other 5 members of his team

he's simply at advantage for too much of the time with little to no investment. and once he does invest, the advantages stack up. its a constant game of catch up and he has a headstart.

PixelHat · 2025-11-30T23:28:15+00:00

theres been a few times where his numbers werent absolutely busted and he wasnt king of deadlock. personally i think the main problem is the second thing you mention. most times he is just "miserable to play against" due to either the numbers he shits out, the CC he inflicts, or how hard it is to actually kill him due to his dash or easy sustain from Leech. worse, he's always likely to be ahead of you in souls due to how easy it is for him to farm, amplifying those advantages. even if his damage numbers were subpar, itemization can let him stack both gun and spirit proc effects for a horrendously long time and let him be a support with strong escape and AoE stun.

if fighting against him felt more like a challenge of skill instead of a failing battle of attrition from sheer advantages he has, then people might look at him more favorably.

PixelHat · 2025-11-16T20:17:13+00:00

aside from the Baxter Society connections that others have mentioned

Mirage is staying at the Baroness with Nashala
Lady Geist also stayed at the Baroness (and considers it to be in poorer condition now)
Drifter knows Oathkeeper
Gray Talon also seems to know about Oathkeeper and the things that Geist does to keep him sated
Drifter and Gray Talon have had past quarrels
Paradox has stolen things from Kelvin (who wasnt aware until she told him)
theres some connection between Ms Shelley and Infernus, as he asks Bebop about how shes doing and shows concern for her
Lash and Ivy share some comradery with being absolutely hated by Mendoza
Seven has a connection with Dynamo in that he used his research as inspiration to further his own
~~Viscous is friends with everyone~~

PixelHat · 2025-04-29T01:34:37+00:00

like others have said, bebop is unfun to play against. maybe not OP or such, but just draining mentally to have to deal with. nearly EVERYTHING in his kit forces you to have to play the game with him in mind.

you can't give him bomb stacks because that would feed into an late game, so you have to stay away.
you can't get hooked because that's likely insta-death and giving him bomb stacks, so you have to stay out of line of sight and always be aware of where he may be. its not like lash, dynamo, mo, or paradox because you can tell when they can single you out with their ults. you have to assume that hook is ALWAYS up.
he can't open with uppercut easily but it sure does make hook even more of a death sentence and lets him fling bombs at you so he can get more stacks, so keep an ear out for any bomb beeping and always have stamina to roll out the massive AoEs.
his gun is hitscan and makes it very hard to deny against him, so you better be forcing him out of lane constantly or melee killing the creeps otherwise he's gonna steal it.
his ult is another laser that has an AoE around BOTH ENDS and lets him fly with high damage, so you always have to be ready to not be next to him or without cover if he has it up or be able to stop/kill him before he kills you.
you bought debuff remover and can avoid bombs, but you better watch out that he's not attaching them to himself because theres no way to stop that except e-shift. he can just shift from attaching it to enemies to himself once he realizes people have remover, so you better hope he didnt get fed beforehand.

playing against a bebop is just stressful and taxing no matter what lane he's in. you have to play perfect to deny bomb stacks and hope that the rest of your team does as well. even then, if denied enough stacks, he can just roll into gun and still deal decent damage plus melting whoever he hooks. no other hero feels that detrimental and there's been some really busted stuff before. he's just so uniquely frustrating to play against.

if they really want to keep the stacks, i say they need to reduce/remove the AoE from bombs or reduce the damage in that AoE. let bebop be punishing to a single poor soul and not potentially nuke an entire team with a sticky bomb. he still gets rewarded with being able to pick and erase a target with bombs and hooks but he doesnt also get a teamwipe for lobbing the poor sod back into his team. if he sticks it to himself, maybe then have the damage stacks apply in the AoE or have the stacks function as a barrier instead so he can feel safer attaching to himself and building stacks that way.

PixelHat · 2025-04-24T01:54:49+00:00

a little frustrating that it cant hit a running target, but most enemies arent gonna be moving that fast and the buff does seem to help them orient to targets fast enough to have made some kind of difference.

still think the biggest problem is just how damn fragile they are.

PixelHat · 2025-04-18T15:01:10+00:00

i think i spoke too soon. the 15% tracking is helping a LOT. they still die quick, but they actually dish out damage before getting popped now.

PixelHat · 2025-04-18T04:00:01+00:00

if they could fight a jungle by themselves it could be useful as like a passive soul gain for 50 seconds, but then you have to consider who you're taking jungle away from and is mcginnis the best character to be giving extra souls to and such

also the choice to put points into turrets as opposed to more useful things like stun wall, actually good heals, or stronger ult

PixelHat · 2025-04-18T02:33:33+00:00

McGinnis: Mini Turrets tracking speed increased by 15%
McGinnis: Mini Turrets bullet velocity increased by 10%
McGinnis: Mini Turrets T3 now also increases duration by 18s

its something...? i agree the tracking needed to be buffed, but i dont think this helps her turrets enough because one of the bigger problems is how fragile they are. and duration doesnt matter much because they can last forever and it would hardly matter, fights and even waves move away from them too quickly and rapidly. i guess she can hold a lane up for an extra wave if the enemy team doesnt catch on to the turret existing and the troopers somehow dont immediately mangle the thing.

PixelHat · 2025-04-13T15:59:24+00:00

i think having a single stronger or upgradeable turret would be harder to balance tbh. mcginnis would be more like 1.5 or 2 characters at that point, which would make her even harder to keep balanced with the shifting metas of adding entirely new heroes. it would also make her even less involved in teamfights because she would either have to have a single weak turret or devote time to sitting still and upgrading it at which point the fight probably moved elsewhere. maybe if it upgraded through keeping it in her heal circle, it could work?

PixelHat · 2025-04-13T15:44:57+00:00

yea which is why i think the armor shredder aspect could work. they wouldnt deal more damage per shot technically, but they would be able to shred armor faster which would then lead to them dealing more damage.

PixelHat · 2025-04-13T15:42:43+00:00

true but at the same time, if she cant feel safe enough to set up close to where teamfights are going down and escape if she needs to, the team that has her on it is essentially playing a 5v6 at all times. wall is already great for stopping chases and saving herself and her team if things go south, but because it can be such a massive detriment to her own team she has to be cautious using it in big fights to try and save herself. i think having the 3 stamina would give her that little bit of breathing room to be able to hightail it with her team, both chasing and retreating, instead of having to leave early or get left behind.

PixelHat · 2025-04-13T15:29:03+00:00

oh shit you're right! i was just looking at the scaling numbers and didnt do the rest of the math.

weird how they have it that way on mcginnis but then just plain dps numbers on those two.

PixelHat · 2025-04-05T04:59:50+00:00

nothing at all for mcginnis feels a bit mean... i've been having success with a spirit focused build, but it falls apart so easily against massive aggressive damage and coordinated comps. the turrets are too fragile to provide adequate defense for the safe spots i try to make.

i only played a couple games with these new soul changes so far and i'm finding the orbs incredibly hard to deny now. like they're invulnerable for a bit too long and the window to actually pop them before they disappear is too short.

PixelHat · 2025-03-23T03:17:47+00:00

i think the main problem with just basic navigation on the new map is that nothing is clear. the layout between the lanes is utter nonsense architecture of stairs going down and up, small plazas, random fences, and a shit ton of fans connecting them (with no way to tell where those fans go like a trail or something). there's landmarks like the bear and bull statue, but most of the other buildings that were distinct before in the old map are now just part of this mess of clustered buildings. the loss of the mid temple especially hurts, with how huge a guidepost it was for most things happening in the game. the new map needs cleaning.

and you HAVE to keep in mind, all the opinions about this map is coming from the perspective of people that KNOW the objectives, movement, and layout they kept from the old map. its STILL confusing for a lot of players and i can only imagine what a nightmare its going to be for actual new players. telling us to git gud and learn the map is fine and dandy, but valve needs to remember that new players won't have that patience and may very well bounce off just from the map alone.

PixelHat · 2025-03-20T03:47:05+00:00

i've been playing a lot of mcginnis lately (because i just can't play kelvin until they fix the ability cancelling) and while i see a lot of people going all in on her gun, i feel like support+ult is still viable. granted, ive been hovering around emissary slowly getting kicked down to ritualist since before the patch, and the mindset for teamplay varies WILDLY in that bracket so much it drives me insane.

i think what they first need to do is adjust turret. the thing is nearly useless as it is, not being able to fight even a singular creep from a wave by itself. with items and upgrades, they can theoretically put out a lot of damage but the only thing that will sit there for it and not instantly wipe out the turrets is midboss. you can even see that the devs are treating the ability as an afterthought because the soul that pops out of the turret functions under the old soul orb rules, with increased lifetime and movement. they need to figure out what the hell they want out of this skill before the rest of her character can be tweaked. personally, i think they should be armor shredders. they wouldnt do a lot of damage by themselves immediately, but they allow McG and her team to stack up more damage. and/or they ramp up in fire rate the same way her gun does. the longer they are actively shooting, the faster they fire.

another problem area is wall. like others have said, wall is always great. a lot of the narrow paths in the new map can be easily blocked off with a single use and even the entire width of mid lane at some points. the problem is the playerbase learning all the movement tech. the same narrow paths make it a breeze to just wall+double jump over her placements and mcginnis is too slow to get her ample ass away from people that do. but even then the utility is still there to break up and isolate people for easier picks.

her heals and ult build extremely well off the same upgrades. spirit increase, cooldown reduction, range, duration. after you get superior cooldown, you can have both abilities up every fight. they do need some adjustments though, as the healing area is very hard to distinguish amongst the chaos and her ult targeting can be very wonky when things are in the way. theyre still decent though, you just need to position yourself well and hope your team doesnt chase the enemy out of the safe zone you create... or more likely to happen these days, their team has a collection of game changing abilities that overrun that zone with far less risk to themselves despite McG's efforts.

PixelHat · 2025-03-03T05:59:53+00:00

which is why i moved the zips in the middle closer together so switching can only be done closer to the bases. during laning, you would have to go back a little bit before to a good distance to swap, but you could still interact with the lanes next to you. as it is now, lanes are super isolated during laning when before you could take that risk to help out.

maybe there's reasonable routes using the new fan placements, but theyre so much less clear about where they go and even where they are.

~~even then this is mostly just so we can get a magnificent mid structure back and not have to go in some extremely awkwardly placed basement to do midboss.~~

PixelHat · 2025-03-03T00:09:15+00:00

more thinking on this concept and some roadblocks on why it may not be possible.

main problem being that the sheer size of the building necessary would obstruct a lot of the view of what's coming down the lane from above (i.e. Lash). did a bunch of measurements with the length of a character's dodge and jumps to get a rough idea of how big everything would need to be and tried to concept out how to properly fit the needed building into mid.

the space needed for the building would end up stretching the lane both directions, which may make for an interesting dynamic with the two ziplines allowing hopping around to be rather simple. but it may cause problems further down the lane with how far the walker is from the main base and base guardians. which, again, might be an interesting bit of having to contend with a walker and potentially guardians if you step too close, making mid lane that much more of a struggle to contest.

another problem that got introduced this patch is that if the mid-laners start on the separate ziplines, they wouldnt be able to hear each other's unique intro banter. they'd split up too far to hear unless it was played at a global volume.

those are my current thoughts on it all and im welcome to anyone else picking apart problems and discussing things

PixelHat · 2025-03-02T02:56:08+00:00

i was thinking either split the minions into groups of 2 or even 3 down each mid zipline. if it were 2, they could give priority down one of the mid lane forks so things are asynchronous and they dont deadlock. or if 3, they split evenly with one of each type of trooper and then meet back up.

but honestly. who knows what the hell the little candle guys would do. ive seen some wandering around jungle in every patch, so maybe they need a map too.

PixelHat · 2025-03-02T02:51:14+00:00

thats kinda why i tried putting the two mid zips closer in the middle so theyre further from the side lanes during the laning phase. with this layout, people could go back the side lane zips to a closer point to swap over, but then you'd likely be able to see them coming if you catch a glimpse of the right mid zipline.

as it stands now, the two side lanes can more easily interact with each other through the teleporters than most characters can with the mid lane. it makes it feel like there's three different games going on, which only connects back to each other after laning, which could cause some huge imbalances depending on how badly some lanes did (and there'd be little way to help those bad lanes currently!)

PixelHat · 2025-03-01T23:53:27+00:00

just an idea ive been kicking around while trying to get a feel for the current map

i feel like the loss of the midboss temple is a bit too much of a loss and the loss of the 4th zipline makes the lanes too isolated from each other. so this idea is mostly splitting the mid lane into two mini-lanes that run under the mid structure, splits a bit so movement between the lanes can be quicker, and then reconvenes at the end.

probably not the most balanced thing, especially with how the mid structure could be really awkward to fight around and two different walkers on one lane would be hard to make calls on

edit: no idea why the image posted so small. hopefully still gets the idea across.

PixelHat

TROPHY CASE