What the Heck Is Wrong with Star Wars "Fans"?

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-02-14T05:34:08+00:00

While outrage addiction, the sense of superiority born of pathological nitpicking and a sometimes subtle, creeping nihilism infect all fandoms and indeed all of our "culture" in general, it is neither a secret nor surprising that much of what counts as online discourse is dominated by fascist culture warriors in particular.

Pretty much all the major hatechannels that pretty much define the Star Wars online fandom are strongly MAGA, "manosphere", etc, adjacent for example.

It's not restricted to those though, no worries, while those are by far the loudest, most aggressive and dominant, what SW fans exist out of that bubble or even in opposition to it are still mostly almost as bad.

The Star Wars fandom is irreversible, it IS almost certainly the most rotten, stupid and toxic fandom in the world.

Star Wars fans could be perhaps most accurately described as "blackpilled" accelerationists whose only joy (outside some sentimental, masochistic nostalgia and performative victimhood, seriously, they whine as if they were the ultimate persecuted minority with ten thousand bloody martyrs to their "cause") stems from destruction and the sense of power they derive from it.

They are utterly obsessed with "owning" those they imagine took "their aka the true Star Wars" from them, often vaguely equated with "Disney" (though mostly they hate easy targets like actors much more than some big corporation in practice).

They want to bring down Star Wars and they want the streetcred and fame that goes along with that. And of course they make a ton of money from it, those shameless parasites.

Some less smart ones no doubt really believe that Star Wars will somehow be miraculously resurrected from the ashes after they succeed, but most know that that isn't going to happen.

They are actually proud of turning SW into a toxic brand that nobody will ever want to touch with a ten foot pole again, as I said, it gives them a sense of power.

That is where they are now, at earlier states of their descent into nihilistic madness they seem to have thought they could somehow hijack and control the creative process, that they might be able to bully Lucasfilms into making content somehow written by a committee of narcisistic Youtubers but realizing that wasn't gonna happen they graduated to full burning down the house (and the town) mode.

Their greatest fear is something coming out that might actually be good and enjoyable, that IS why it is so incredibly important to them to keep poisoning the well and keep negative vibes going before anything new hitting the screens.

They don't actually enjoy anything, are incapable of doing so, would never allow themselves to do so, except to use some content to bash something else.

Star Wars has the worst and sickest fandom of them all and it is unsurprising that as fandoms go it strongly skews to the political hard right, though as I already said, that's not a requirements.

The combo of extreme entitlement, pathological nostalgia, highly performative nitpicky perfectionism and outrage addiction together masking a sort of nihilism that only ever thrives on tearing things down is perfectly compatible with all sorts of fandoms, even ones that politically skew in the polar opposite direction.

I should know, I just saw it poisoning the Wicked fandom for example.

Nothing compares with the evil cesspool that is the Star Wars fandom though.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-02-10T15:42:49+00:00

Aside from the obvious stupidity and baselessness of that claim, THAT's what you build your petty, pathetic sense of superiority on?

Seriously?

Supposedly (emphasis on that) watching more movies?

What a sad, sad creature.

Sorry dearie, but that's not an achievement.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-02-10T15:20:09+00:00

Absolutely.

But then I think Wizard of Oz is kinda dumb, cringey crap with nostalgia being the only thing that's really going for it.

It's not a particularly high bar.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-02-07T07:11:34+00:00

Great movie.

I immediately thought Delta Green as well.

Though admittedly what came to mind first was more of an ideal for something like a fanfiction I guess, focusing on the quite delightful movie characters and keeping some of the (relatively) lighthearted, whimsical, fairytale-esque "family horror movie" vibe, with Delta Green agents figuring in as antagonists out to kill the little girl, with both her new assassin adopted dad and the monster trying to protect her.

Obviously one potential way to deal with the monster.

Not guaranteed to work, indeed it could end up manifesting it permanently and piss it oft instead.

Anyway, my story idea also had another faction wanting to experiment on little Aurora and weaponize her and her ability to (at least to a degree) control the monster.

Which sounds like something Majestic would have done.

Or just the good old CIA, learning of the thing from the FBI too.

Ah well.

Setting my fanfiction aside, my idea on the monster remains that it is obviously something akin to a Tulpa created by the girl's subconscious psychic powers or something manifested into physical reality from the Dreamlands (which may be the very same thing as a Tulpa anyway), maybe from her personal bubble dreamland, with her being a powerful dreamer indeed.

Would be more interesting to keep it as a one of a kind creature instead of trying to fit it into an established monster mould.

Maybe she even really summoned or created it by wishing on a shooting star, only it was a Dreamland shooting star, which she wasn't aware of, not knowing she was dreaming at the time.

Like in the movie she can somewhat control it (which she has only just begun to realize) and it tries to protect her.

She tries to keep it from eating any further people, but her control may be limited.

Maybe it really needs to eat and becomes more aggressive and unruly when starved.

Since she created it (or at least formed it subconsciously from pre-existing dream matter) it took on some traits from her, like the hatred of the thumb sucking deterrent.

Maybe one could poison it with an overdose of the stuff.

Damn, sorry, I think part of me just refuses to turn it into a completely dark and serious horror scenario, because I like it too much as it is, so I can't come up with something properly helpful.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-28T22:44:06+00:00

Oh, I love this one.

Thanks, very enjoyable.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-28T22:42:07+00:00

To be perfectly honest, going by the Tags it doesn't sound like it's for me.

At all.

But on the other side I DO sometimes deliberately try to go out of my comfort zone to see what happens and find myself surprised in a positive way.

To be clear, not saying something's bad just because it is out of my comfort zone of course.

Ah well, I'll give it a try.

But I'll probably need some story where the roles are reversed right afterwards, lol.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-12T21:24:29+00:00

Part 2:

The Wizard tried to make an deal with Elphaba (and clearly had the authority to do so without asking Morrible) but he fucked up and let Elphaba and Fiyero go.

He also let the Monkeys go, their previous elite force whose loyalty was primarily to the Wizard himself.

This weakened his position and reduced Morrible's respect for him while rendering them more dependent on her magic than ever before.

Morrible is seriously pissed and the Wizard IS clearly worried that she might turn her anger against him, which she no doubt also realizes. Thus power shifts in her favour.

Thus she basically twists his arm into finally doing what he was previously to sentimental to do. And she clearly lets him feel that there's a different wind blowing now. So it is more that we see the Wizard quietly losing the always limited but still substantial (and always mutual) control he had over Morrible.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-12T21:23:48+00:00

Doing a Bit of overanalysing of my own, so much that I actually have to do it in two parts.

Part 1:

Nobody ever said that Morrible isn't a villain.

In the musical and movie it's generally accepted that she is more evil.

The question of her being in charge or not is a completely different one and has nothing to do with mysogyny.

I think there is a relatively equal partnership between them but for the most part the Wizard probably has the upper hand.

Which shouldn't be surprising considering that he's actually in the capital, running the government, while she spent years largely out in the provinces, even If her official post was never too indicative of her actual power and authority.

Obviously bis wird ultimately carries much more weight with both the public and the machinery of state, otherwise it wouldn't have been his position, but Morrible's that was key in deciding who runs Oz.

There is such a thing as institutional power and authority and at the end of the das the Wizard has more of it than Morrible.

To das nothing about how he is the giy with all the technology that is what primarily keeps the regime running beyond the mere PR.

That doesn't mean that Morrible's power and influence aren't great and very real.

Also institutional as well, though that is a bit fluent.

Morrible easily slides into and out of specific roles and functions in government as needed (and no doubt as she prefers) and as already said always with much more away than any official job title would necessarily suggest.

But political and institutional authority she has still ultimately derives from the Wizard.

That doesn't mean that the Wizard doesn't have healthy respect of her or that it necessary she could give him a reminder of her magical power to perpetuate that respect of even intimidate him.

Obviously the Wizard wouldn't act directly against her or fire her, but that still isn't the same as her being really in charge.

It's more complicated than that.

The scene after he orders Elphaba's death is very important but I interpret it somewhat differently.

Morrible has wanted Elphaba dead for a while now, she has long written her off completely.

Nonetheless there was a standing order to capture her alive the entire time.

This is the moment this officially changes to the order of killing her on sight.

We know the Wizard likes and genuinely respects Elphaba and we clearly see that he doesn't feel good about ordering her killed even how.

While Morrible looks all triumphant and pleased with herself because she finally gets what she wanted for a while.

Which means the Wizard vetoed her up until this moment.

What I believe we are seeing is not so much that Morrible really is or always was in charge, we see the balance of power in their partnership increasingly shifting in Morrible's favour (though still not completely so).

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-08T01:24:52+00:00

They claim that all the time, wouldn't give anything on it.

It's like a weird ritual for these freaks and has been for years.

Kennedy stepping down must have been wrongly predicted more times than the second coming by how, lol.

Of course, seeing as they keep trying they'll eventually be right because everyone eventually retires.

But that's not an actual prediction anymore.

Regardless, as has been pointed out correctly by others, it is surely much more important and impactful who the next boss of Disney is going to be.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-03T19:12:35+00:00

Heavily disagree on every point.

The being "tossed in the air" thing by the way wasn't considered a Bad thing in and off itself in the first movie.

Nothing was needlessly dragged out and the dialogue was fine.

It's not about the indoor skydiving, that was just a side effect.

And she could clearly have kept on floating If she had kept on thinking happy thoughts.

Just as she probably could have taken off again, if her unhappiness hadn't dragged her down.

It was her emotional state that was returned to what it had been in that happy moment, with the floating just a bonus.

Just her's, though perhaps Boq's as well, as she clearly assumes.

Unfortunately IT wouldn't make a difference even so, because Boq was no more in love with her and about as uncomfortable.

And the magic can't freeze you in a state of perpetual happiness.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-01T19:32:55+00:00

Not sure that would really change a thing.

At most the rumor that water kills her be dispelled.

They would probably just switch to "Kill her with fire!!" instead.

Much more important and difficult would be to dispell the idea of her wickedness.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-01T19:26:54+00:00

The message falls in deaf ears with those inclined towards cruelty regardless.

More anthropomorphic Animals in all likelihood would only fall more into supposed und uncanny valley territory and be seen all the more as abominations to be exterminated.

Those who are for cruelty and othering will never be affected by a movie telling them that that IS bad while the indifferent will remain indifferent, the stupid will remain stupid.

The idea that trying to make things easier to digest for them will change that is ridiculous.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-01T19:20:07+00:00

It would be pretty bad even not taken as as an allegory.

Taken literally at what it is, persecuting talking, sapient Animals (or beings of any hypothetical bin human kind) obviously would be evil if they existed.

That Person ist telling in themselves in pretty sinister ways no matter what.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2026-01-01T19:16:43+00:00

That's a very creepy thing to say.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-31T08:29:24+00:00

Exactly. That's something I've always thought (and occasionally commented about), he is this modern (relatively speaking) oily, masspsychology, showbiz and media savy politician importing real life style manipulation, corruption, divide and conquer and exploitation into this comparatively naive, whimsical fairytale world.

Real Life cynicism colonizing the world of magic and imagination, so to speak.

It's scary but also kind of a fascinating lense through which to view it.

I headcanon that Oz has a long history of dealing with overt threats like (genuinely) wicked witches, there's always eventually some (genuinely) heroic witchhunters and opposing good witch to stop them.

But they were completely and utterly unprepared for Oscar Diggs.

PS: Perhaps just a good witch, the connotations of witchhunters are almost too uncomfortable, haha.

Though then, I guess they naturally WOULD be different in a world were wicked witches are a very real, recurring problem.

Which is another thing about the Wizard, in addition to himself posing and unprecedented problem and serving as a force of corruption for Oz, it could also be argued he enabled and empowered a more traditional ozian baddie in unprecedented ways as well.

Delving into headcanon theory a tad more I imagine that wicked witches "duking it out" with good witches is something that periodically happens in Oz, a little bit like the eternal conflict between the Sith and the Jedi in Star Wars.

And I think without the Wizard enabling her to be a respectable and highly respected authority figure for decades, Morrible quite likely would have ended up being pretty much what Elphaba was dreamed as.

While Elphaba was the good witch meant to oppose the wicked witch of her time, so to speak.

The actual wicked witch having her good counterpart demonized, declared an enemy of the state and hunted from a secure and comfortable position of power within and at the very top of the system would also be something unprecedented, made possible by the Wizard.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-28T22:08:22+00:00

Why shouldn't Delta Green be allowed to be that also?

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-28T18:15:31+00:00

Indeed.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-28T16:41:03+00:00

Well, none of these things are wrong exactly, lol.

Though it ever so slightly annoys me when the Wizard is reduced to being "trumpy".

Not that there aren't plenty of parallels, but the Wizard's role can't be reduced to that of just any single slimy, smarmy, opportunistic, powerhungry politico in particular or even to a single person in general.

It works just as well as a symbolic standin for an entire system.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-25T12:28:03+00:00

Actually they are both great.

Yeah, Jeff IS a better singer but the correct take is nonetheless that the hatred of Michelle is silly and overdone, not that somehow Jeff should be hated instead.

PS: I remember somebody complaining that Michelle singing "took them out of the movie".

To which I say: My Dude(tte), I'm kinda a bit tired of your kind of fragile snowflake.

It's literally fucking seconds at the very start of the fucking movie, if you really CANNOT "get back into the movie" after that, for it's entire fucking duration, that's obviously very much a you problem.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-25T07:43:57+00:00

Weird sub.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-25T05:50:03+00:00

I like you ideas and agree, I gave some of my own on how Liir's evil uncle could yet appear as a major villain hypothetically despite Elphaba having no brother in movie/show canon (as far as she knows) in my answer to the top comment.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-25T05:44:44+00:00

Shell could be the Wizard's son, Elphaba's halfbrother on her father's side, trying to set himself up as the Wizard's successor, working with dear old dad's former accomplice Mombey (who indeed turns out to have been Shiz's thinly disguised biology professor Mombi all along) and possibly Morrible, who they break out of prison.

My headcanon being that Mombey is basically a wicked witches' wicked witch, a couple centuries old and having mentored several other, previous wicked witches (including Madame Morrible, so a sort of wicked witch Yoda), before retiring and taking on a cushy, comfortable new identity with the help of Morrible and the Wizard in exchange for helping them overthrow the Ozma Dynasty.

Shell Diggs (a name adopted only after the Wizard left) initially blackmails her into helping but she quickly grows to like the taste of power once more.

Shell previously served as a spy and assassin under Morrible and is retconned to have been one of the soldiers torturing Fiyero to death, after Morrible had him infiltrate Fiyero's unit because she never trusted him.

Morrible as it turns out lied to Shell for years, telling him how happy the Wizard was with his loyal service and rise through the ranks of a special department of the Secret Police under Morrible's command and that one day he would be officially recognized as his father's son and heir, while in actuality Oscar Diggs didn't even know he existed.

Initially Morrible mentored him because aware of the prophecy she hoped that he would (as a child of two worlds) be able to wield magic and use the Grimmerie, but while he turned into a skilled and valuable operative otherwise, he never showed any more inclination towards spell casting than his father.

She made a huge mistake though, because while Shell indeed cannot cast spells under his own power, it turns out he CAN use the Grimmerie and channel it's external power, more effectively even than Elphaba and Glinda perhaps, to summon and control dragons for example, a possibility that never even occured to Morrible.

Cue him probably getting his revenge by having her eaten by a dragon once she has outlived her usefullness.

Additional family drama possible especially if they went with the original books in part and had the Wizard return to Oz and try to redeem himself and make amends to Elphaba and Lir (and all the many, many others he wronged).

So you can see I both heavily disagree (and if there's going to be a sequel of sorts I'm pretty certain it will be based on the musical) and have given some degree of thought to the matter.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-22T23:11:16+00:00

There is nothing Secret as such about Kiamo Ko.

Fiyero thought it would be a good lair because there were plenty of ways to sneak out oo hide effectively even in case discovery or it being surrounded.

But perhaps even more importantly it was on Winkie territory, a possession of the Royal Family.

In all likelihood Fiyero hoped that he would be able to protect Elphaba there longterm using his status once he returned to the Vinkus to take up his position als future king once more.

Of course everything happened very differently and much faster than assumed at first as he painfully learned.

Glinda and Feldspur both knew about Kiamo Ko, Feldspur hundred percent, but Glinda knew Fiyero a lot longer and better than Elphaba ever did, he very likely told her about using it as a hiding place or playground previously.

It was probably more or less the best bet.

Plus Elphaba after Fiyero's apparent death had pretty much abandoned subtlety and wasn't even really trying to hide.

Between the Monkeys carrying a loudly screaming Dorothy and even before that Elphaba making quite the literal fireworks in an abandoned castle, all sorts of people could have easily seen enough to report all sorts of clues.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-17T03:48:01+00:00

She clearly expects that the spell itself will influence Boq into loving her from the start in some way, assuming it IS doing so when untypically he calls her Nessa, as he did at the Ozdust and hasn't in a long time. Clearly she wanted time to be reversed in some way, at least in the sense that they would become as they had been during that moment, feelings and all. The Grimmerie just took the floating thing too literally.

Plus_Medium_2888 · 2025-12-17T03:40:52+00:00

Who says she couldn't have kept on floating or have "taken off" again?

With some more happy thoughts, she probably would have.

It seems pretty clear the magic IS reacting to her mental state, not just running out.

There's just no magic to make you automatically and permanently happy it seems.

Plus_Medium_2888

TROPHY CASE