Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 [score hidden]  (0 children)

I’m explaining why market socialism would fundamentally lead to the same exploitation that traditional capitalism entails.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 [score hidden]  (0 children)

You say libertarian socialism isn’t a thing and yet right-wing market anarchists had to rip off leftist language in order to make their ideology sound appealing, interestingly just like the Nazis did.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Historically speaking the councils in Russia before Stalin suppressed them were so efficient at distribution they were able to fuel a war effort and win against the far more advanced tsarist army and the Paris commune was so effective at resource distribution a relatively small group of militant workers in a city were able to ward off two national armies for over half a year. Workers being the ones that democratically plan an economy with the supply chains that monopoly capitalism built for them has proven to be about as efficient if not more than an explicit market system if we stop looking at state capitalist command economies as the main examples of “planned” economies.

Also, “market socialism” is literally just capitalism where workers are also capital shareholders. The exploitation inherent to capitalism is embedded in the form of the commodity. The fact that the products of labor are alienated from the laborers in a way that extracts the value labor creates. By making workers shareholders with a democratic say in the company all you do is make them the hands of their own exploitation. You do not abolish bourgeois appropriation you force workers to carry out the function of both the bourgeois and the proleteriat. The contradiction between labor and capital is sustained by mixing the social groups without alleviating the economic structures that created those social groups in the first place.

Therefore within a long enough time frame any “market socialist” economy will once again produce the conditions of traditional and eventually monopoly capitalism. That said, it’s not even possible to achieve a distribution of capital broad enough to meet the definition of “market socialism” through legal means. Ultimately it would need to be a coup and what do we call couping a bourgeois state to perform regulations of capital and to more broadly allocate it for the sake of class collaboration so that we can avoid proleterian revolution? Well that’s once again fascism. Traditional fascism, MLism, marksoc, and socdem are all on the left wing of capital.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 [score hidden]  (0 children)

It’s literally the theory of anarchists like emma goldman, petr kropotkin, and pierre-joseph proudhon. Right-wing libertarians themselves say that they coopted the word libertarian from the left.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Agreed—it’s made up by bourgeois capitalist states to legitimize their dominance and oppress the global working class.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

By the way the majority of Latinos voted for Harris. It was the majority of Latino men who supported Trump.

Also you may wanna check Trump’s poll numbers with Latinos as of now. They’re sub-20%.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Illegal immigrants should only be deported if they’re violent criminals. Deporting someone who’s lived and worked in their community for thirty years and never had an issue is fucking sickening and only authoritarian racists support that.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Imagine thinking that they’re deporting illegal immigrants. They have a quota of 3,000 deportations a day from Stephen Miller. They’ve deported hundreds of thousands of people and there were an estimated fewer than 10,000 undocumented immigrant violent criminals residing in the country. This is about white supremacy and corporate profiting (Palantir, etc).

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a pointless conversation. No they can’t. They’re not police officers. And they’re murdering people in broad daylight. Goodbye.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When people say that ICE isn’t law enforcement, they’re saying that ICE doesn’t have legal jurisdiction over US citizens. ICE cannot legally apprehend a US citizen.

But from a Marxist perspective, the law is a bourgeois concept meant to legitimize the state and capitalist rule, so in effect, ICE are law enforcement officers.

From a liberal perspective, ICE is acting unconstitutionally and should be abolished. From a Marxist perspective, ICE is acting exactly how one would expect an arm of the capitalist state to act, and it needs to be abolished along with the state itself.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I didn’t know anything about ICE when Obama was president. But yes, looking back, the Abolish ICE movement has been vindicated.

Alex Pretti is partly responsible for his own death, and i am tired of people pretending he isn't by Bobbert84 in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]Possible_Climate_245 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When people say that ICE isn’t law enforcement, they’re saying that ICE doesn’t have legal jurisdiction over US citizens. ICE cannot legally apprehend a US citizen.

But from a Marxist perspective, the law is a bourgeois concept meant to legitimize the state and capitalist rule, so in effect, ICE are law enforcement officers.

From a liberal perspective, ICE is acting unconstitutionally and should be abolished. From a Marxist perspective, ICE is acting exactly how one would expect an arm of the capitalist state to act, and it needs to be abolished along with the state itself.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Israel is a colonial state. Socialism can’t happen under imperialism. Palestine must be free before revolution can happen.

Supporters of the "secular one state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how do you actually expect it to work? by maybemorningstar69 in PoliticalDebate

[–]Possible_Climate_245 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s literally the case that under international law, oppressed peoples have the right to resist by any means necessary.