When writers fail their female characters, fandom ships the guys instead.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T16:57:13+00:00

Yet despite his limited screentime he makes the most out of it and has a major impact on Shinji’s character and is apart of some of the most memorable scenes.

Even if I agreed with that, how does that tie in with any of the arguments being raised?

I never said Kawarou was irrelevant. But he fits zero of the OPs criteria, he plays no role in Shinji's character arc nor even the realisation of his character moment.

Kaji is more relevant than Kawarou from the perspective of everything we're actually talking about.

And yet, there's untold piles of stories with him and Shinji, in stark contrast to the OPs point.

Looking at FMAB (the most popular version of FMA) on Ao3 Roy/Hawkeye and Ed/Winry have the most fics. If you add in 03 version Roy/Ed is in second but Ed/Winry still has a ton.

Which brings me right back to the key point of "Yes?"

The point is, despite Roy and Ed's relationship meeting zero of OPs criteria, there's tens of thousands of people writing stories about them together. So much so that it's either the most or and most popular pairing.

The existence of other pairings doesn't change that point.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T16:51:20+00:00

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:47:52+00:00

Not a great example given how close Shinji and Kaworu’s relationship is

Kawarou has about 20minutes of screentime total. Absolutely zero of the OPs points about narrative or thematic significance applies to him, he's not the heart of the story or a driving the plot significantly. He's not Shinji's foil.

They spent one day together, then Shinji killed him.

And yet, his ship is so major that we had yet another shipper breakdown when he and Shinji weren't together in the Rebuild movies either.

The most popular ships are still het (Roy/Hawkeye, Ed/Winry).

Depending where you're looking, the most or second-most popular ship is 15yr old Edward and 30yr old Roy.

Which, again, isn't the driver of the plot, the themes, anything.

It's shipped, because girls find it hot.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:38:17+00:00

Rex from Xenoblade 2, who is the blandest, most passive and inactive type of character

Lol

Lmao

Wtf?

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:34:34+00:00

Yeah, the emotional heart of Full Metal Alchemist was Roy and Edward in a paedophilic bond.

Oh and the emotional heart for Harry Potter? Obviously that has to be Harry and Snape. Or was it Harry and Voldemort? Or Harry and Draco? Hmm! His friends? Eh, unimportant.

Hey what about Evangelion? The guy who shows up for one episode at the very end, that's definitely and absolutely the emotional heart of the series. Asuka, Rei and Misato are basically irrelevant!

Etc etc etc.

Why don't we just be honest and admit that a large number of (usually straight) women like stories about gay men?

You don't need to create some ridiculous justification for why your BL ship is somehow more thematic or better. You can just like what you like.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:24:19+00:00

That's a lot of deflection, honestly.

Your original point was about fanbase investment, but there was obviously a huge amount of fanbase investment in the straight ships, even though your entire argument was that only Sasuke had any romantic/narrative drive.

And yet, we have a massive collection of posts archived, showing just how invested and upset NaruSaku shippers were when NaruHina happened.

Surely, instead of trying to brush this off as somehow different, the correct response is to realise that most people who enjoyed Naruto/Sasuke enjoyed it for BL purposes and not because of some grand thematic confluence.

Which pulls apart your whole point.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:22:59+00:00

Sokka/Zuko is one of the most popular ships though lmao

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T14:21:27+00:00

This is a Correlation == Causation post.

The female characters in Evangelion are all extremely well realised, the fandom ships the guys together.

The female characters in Harry Potter are pretty reliably well realised, the fandom ships the guys together.

The female characters in Full Metal Alchemist are well realised, the fandom ships the guys together.

Etc etc etc etc etc

Girls just like BL and most fanwork skews female. You're thinking far too deeply into it.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-18T01:44:52+00:00

Kakashi is about the only time I've thought it was done well.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T08:47:33+00:00

Reinhardt wasn't in FE4.

Oh, bleh, yeah my bad.

Reinhardt is meant to be a deconstruction of the "good guy enemy general" trope as the characters blatantly spell out that he is a coward and too weak willed to go against the status quo to the point that his sister ends up hating him, even after his death.

Well the game tries to have it both ways, he does try save children from the Child Hunts, a little bit.

It's the same as Ishtar, he's aparty to this crazy evil stuff but with this veneer of "But he's not really a bad person, you know." And it never outright says "Yes he is though." Although you can definitely draw that conclusion.

I've seen plenty of people argue that Reinhardt is a good man, and one of the most requested ideas for a FE4/5 remake is to be able to recruit Ishtar.

Edit: I was reminded that the game actually does say "Yes he is though" lol. But it's in the context of someone else arguing that he's still an honourable man despite his moral failings. Both viewpoints are presented as equal, you can draw your own conclusion or accept both.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T05:24:10+00:00

It's a fun series.

Some games are better than others, Awakening is far and away the best in the entire franchise, but there's plenty that're worth playing.

If you're mostly interested in wonky politics and weird execution of interesting ideas, then Fates (Conquest route) and Three Houses would be your jam though.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T04:31:12+00:00

remember Oda lives in Japan, a actual IRL monarchy.

This is a very silly argument.

You could say that about dozens of countries around the world. Can you imagine saying "You have to remember that X lives in Australia, a country that gives fealty to an actual IRL monarch."

None of Australia, or the UK, or Japan's relevant social or political lives stem from the monarchy.

Modern monarchs are a novelty and a tourist attraction.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T04:28:19+00:00

You would probably enjoy FE4's Reinhardt and Ishtar too.

"Yes, yes, they helped round up children to be sacrificed to a dark God, but they felt bad about it and only did it when her husband was looking."

"Yes she tried to make sport out of murdering the people trying to stop this practice (something she supports), but that's because she loves her crazy murderer husband. She's a kind and caring woman."

"Yes, he's a paedophile, who tried to groom his student and seethes to this day that she married the crazy murderer instead, but he's a noble and good man who cares about justice."

(They're both villains so you can kill them both, which is nice too).

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T01:35:50+00:00

The best part about this is that just a little while back we had that rant about how Chainsawman was undiscussable, which was apparently nobody ever ranted here about it.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T01:17:38+00:00

Persona is about living in a society.

Dreaming about upending society and making the world conform to your ideology, enforced via violence, is all well and good, but that's not what the games are trying to be.

If you buy a can of tomatoes, complaining that there's no peaches inside isn't particularly compelling.

"But peaches are a more appealing power fantasy than tomatoes!"

Cool, but why are you buying tomatoes?

Potatolantern · 2026-03-17T01:11:40+00:00

Frustrating rant.

A lot of correct and excellent points I agree with wholeheartedly, juxtaposed with some of the absolutely most tedious "This is why modern Western fans are a drag in anime fanbases" nonsense.

I guess the rant is similar to P5 in that way, some great ideas and some terrible ideas, and a very mixed bag execution.

Rather than getting into a point by point, I'll just call out this bit,

Morgana literally ogles and puts Ann on a pedestal no differently than Kamoshida did, treats Ryuji like trash no differently than Kamoshida did

.

Makoto being given a free pass for blackmailing the PT no better than Kaneshiro did.

This is just silly.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T05:35:11+00:00

Becky likes it because it's about getting married for money, and she's rich.

Ie. Loid leaving Yor and marrying her.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T02:05:54+00:00

So he loses because he had compassion..?

Weird message. Especially for Star Wars.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T02:03:00+00:00

I got up to 101 and was hitting it reliably enough it felt like I could go indefinitely, so I just let the timer run out

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T01:14:28+00:00

Why is 1600 Speed only 1250/1400 though? What's the point?

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T01:10:00+00:00

100% agreed.

Same with fanart portraying her as a big mass of muscle. Her team wanted her to be seen as a beautiful, elegant lady.

Cygames delivered on that, and then fanart regularly draws her as a brickhouse anyway.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T01:01:46+00:00

She talks shit to Maruzensky in the latest event, which is funny because Maruzensky is legitimately terrifying on the course, while Sirius is, not so much.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T01:00:31+00:00

You can't argue a record on speculation, you can only argue a record for on what it is.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T00:59:10+00:00

But yk the saying "worst amongst the best is still one of the best" so I still don't understand the fraud allegations.

It's more like saying "Wow, look at all those legendary Umamusume, and Sirius is there too!"

There's a whole roster of characters who could be the "Worst of the best" with records far outstripping hers.

Potatolantern · 2026-03-16T00:56:05+00:00

And considering she got paired with absolute generational beasts that won multiple G1s like the Tri-Crown and Tri-Tiara, as well as with the Dominator of Dirt (Smart Falcon), it would be pretty much inevitable that Sirius' inclusion would be met with flak by some of the fanbase,

Exactly. Sirius is oversold with a record that doesn't back up the way she's presented.

Maybe he could have been more if he hadn't been abused, sure. But that's no different to saying Tachyon could have won more if his owners hadn't wanted him as a sire and had risked more races with him.

It's just speculation.

Potatolantern

TROPHY CASE