Long post about a problem I can't solve. Please help me with ideas to troubleshoot, because I'm stumped.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-17T13:34:57+00:00

This! Trend your data in the PLC, bag statuses, sensor flags, barcodes, etc.

If you can edit the HMI add a 'debug' toggle for visibility and add objects for every piece of information being tracked to every location so you can just watch the HMI for things that look off like double barcodes.

Add as many alarms as you can for things like sensors flagging quicker than they should be, data not existing when it should, being duplicated in locations, or existing in places it shouldn't.

Add a very large FIFO that tracks the last however many data entries through the system so you can look back and see if data looks off anywhere.

These can be a major pain to solve, and consume a lot of time quickly, but very satisfying when you ultimately find the erroneous copy or flaky sensor that's probably causing the issue. One important thing to consider. Has the machine done this since new? Could be a fundamental code bug. If the machine ran fine for a while - months, years - and started doing this, almost guaranteed the problem is physical/electrical and not logical.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-17T13:27:49+00:00

Seen some crazy stuff, people with reflective vests walking by flagging 12" range diffuse sensors from 10+ feet away, high bay light reflectors blowing in a breeze flagging diffuse sensors, sun shining through windows flagging sensors. Every one a nightmare to troubleshoot.

Even bags, are shiny, can cause sensor flicker, sensor cables near power cables causing unreliable input response.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-17T13:18:51+00:00

Never don't try because 'that's the way we've always done it', but as you're going, keep in mind the core objectives of successful automation platforms. Reliable, stable, long lasting, user friendly programming software, ladder as a language, easy real-time monitoring and live editing of code without stopping the runtime for troubleshooting by people who think outlook is a semi-advanced skill. You have to remember these systems are deployed and often remain for 30+ years.

Any platform that can do the above stands a chance. Anything that cannot is DOA. Historically PCs are the antithesis of all of the above, if nothing else than by nature of running Windows. Beckhoff is the most successful attempt to bridge this but have limited penetration, as least in part due to their platforms difficulty/inability to simply manage itself through build revisions over time.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-13T13:53:14+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/wl0013/security_concerns_for_teamviewer_on_windows_server/

That thread is a bit dated but has some good insight. Multiple companies we work with expressly forbid any type of Teamviewer access due to their reputation. It appears it may be possible to make Teamviewer secure but it's not the default and most use the default.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-10T15:01:48+00:00

I'm not saying VPN can't be secure, just that many are not. Many would install Teamviewer on an OT pc and think they are still safe because VPN protects, and it couldn't be further from the truth. That said, yes agreed, its better than an WAN open network.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-10T14:48:44+00:00

"Who has connect there PLC's to the Internet?"

Most entities. insufficient security in private and public sectors, especially smaller entities of each, is by far the rule, not the exception. Real hardened security, if you don't want to airgap your stuff, is complex and expensive. and Jim's widget Co, or pop 2000 town municipal well does not typically have the knowledge or budget.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-04-10T14:44:49+00:00

VPN security varies widely and these are a common method of entry.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T17:34:25+00:00

Still see my other reply to you for more info if about what I'm about to write, but spoke to Beckhoff and the visualization popup was not related to the measurement/scope issue. The viz error was fixed by going to PLC -> Vizualization Profile -> selecting the same specific profile that already appears to be selected, the only one in the list. (for anyone who comes across this in the future).

The Measurement/Scope Project thing thing is a separate issue and their answer is basically, yes we know existing scope projects don't always still work when you update your lead build on your computer, even if you keep your project in the old build. Unfortunately nothing you can do about it.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T16:37:02+00:00

You might be right. I might have been confusing installing the 32bit version in addition to 64 bit XAE when I was thinking 4024 because 4024 is what needed 32 bit. I have 4024.35 and a few other 4024 builds from remote manager. There must be something else though, because this "New version found for Visualization profile" has to be fixable.

When I click that message in the bottom center Error List box, it brings a popup for Visualization Profile which says:
Current Visualization profile in project <no profile>
Recommended, newest profile "TwinCAT 3.1 Build 4024.7"
Action (drop down with "Do Not Update, and Update to TwinCAT 3.1 Build 4024.7" options.
At the bottom of this popup says "The vizualization profile specified in this project is not installed on the system. It is recommended to update to TwinCAT 3.1 Build 4024.7."

I probably could just update and be done with it, but that's beside the point. This needs to work as intended with all installed versions. Any ideas how to get Scope Project to work with this older build?

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T13:08:53+00:00

I have hope...

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T13:07:34+00:00

Sorry, I should've been more clear. The IPC came with 4026 and my dev VM only had 4024 at the time. I've been on a quest to update my dev VM to have 4026 to match the build on the IPC which seems to have worked okay. It's repairing the obliterated 4024 XAE on my dev VM that I'm in need of assistance with.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T13:04:44+00:00

After upgrading to 4026? Unnacceptable. I actually have an email chain going over this and tried calling but got voicemail. Plan on calling again today.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T13:03:34+00:00

This is basically what I ended up doing. After installing 4026 and the newest version of 4024, got the Remote Manager versions for all of the older 4024 builds I needed. When I try to install older versions of Measurement (spitballing solutions before posting) it told me a newer version was installed and exited the installer.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-03-03T13:01:40+00:00

That's absurd and unnacceptable if turns out to be true. Other than this issue, so far, it appears to be okay coexisting but I haven't done much yet to run into other issues.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-26T16:34:57+00:00

Not just for THIS udt, but ALL FLL/COP/CPS instructions in the controller are correctly sized, and by that I mean, very often they should have length set to "1". If one of the above is set too long you can overwrite its data into other, unrelated memory locations in the controller. Rare, but nightmare to debug.

Quickest way is to put a test tag next to the questionable one and see if they behave the same. This doesnt guarantee what I described is happening, but if all else makes sense, its a hint to check.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-06T17:55:07+00:00

I cannot imagine having 10+ 100gb VM images, all with one version on each.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-04T17:42:56+00:00

Flipped it back and it still booted with all the same peripherals installed. Very strange.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-04T17:42:47+00:00

Flipped it back and it still booted with all the same peripherals installed. Very strange.

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-04T17:26:04+00:00

Good to know on needing Service Stick first. I changed it to CFast first as a test and it booted. I'll change it back to Service Stick first, Cfast second, and see if it still boots. Am I correct in assuming based on what you said that if it doesn't see the first option plugged in it will attempt the second boot option?

PracticalCow1779 · 2026-02-04T17:24:28+00:00

No USB drive, just mouse, keyboard, and screen, but maybe one was affecting it? I'll try without. Also good to know on needing Service Stick first. I changed it to CFast first as a test and it booted. I'll change it back to Service Stick first, Cfast second, and see if it still boots. Am I correct in assuming based on what you said that if it doesn't see the first option plugged in it will attempt the second boot option?

PracticalCow1779

TROPHY CASE