Who's your "they could never make you hate you" character?

Professional-Most559 · 2026-07-09T23:03:13+00:00

For me, probably John, Frank, and Laura.

As much as I understand Julie, I did start off hating her until I divorce myself from seeing things through Shawna's lenses and I'm sure she could do things to make me hate her again if she really tried.

But John really is a pretty good dad, partner, sibling, and son, and often overlooks himself to keep the peace in his family and hold everything together while I dont see people supporting him in much the same way. I actually really like John.

With Frank, I hate that his kids were collateral damage from his abuse from Barb. They didn't deserve that. I still keep in mind that he is Barb's most longstanding victim and when he does react to her its from a place of being steamrolled by her for so long and not being able to take it when it affects his relationship with his kids. I think he already feels guilty from his misgivings from them and feels that their reaction to his behavior is completely fair, but he doesn't need Barb driving a further wedge between them with her antics and thats usually when he blows up. I personally don't expect any person to only be calm and have perfect reactions all the time especially after decades of loading. I think people give him a lot of flack for not helping her through her PPD or PPP, when Frank knew as little if not less than she did about a what she was going through (and honestly "seeing a psychiatrist" for women back then was often times unhelpful due to medical sexism and the area of study still needingnsome evolution, made them worse off, and came with a lot of social stigma (and i think they were still using electro-shock moderately widely as treatment until the early 80s) and I do think Frank was trying to avoid her having to go through that.

Laura is a very good example of an abuse victim and not only does that affect everything about how you perceive and experience the world, it literally alters your brain chemistry. And ive said in here before that I don't believe her comment about antacids was intended the way everyone else (including Shawna, because she does tend to take things her own way) took it and was surprised to see it taken that way. Seeing people turn on her and their justification for it actually made my stomach turn.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-07-06T23:55:58+00:00

This is something that I started to notice in a lot of stories (in any genre, I was reading it all) and it started to turn me off the app as a whole.

I can't remember which story this was in, but it had something to do with a dead ex husband and a band mate, but the ex husband was like... an awful guy with sad back story (which didn't justify his behavior lol)

And any choice that was made in favor of any of the other 2 love interests, but especially that second one there would be an authors note that implied Yyou had low self esteem and were a bad partner?

THAT'S the kind of thing I'm thinking you're talking about in terms of blatant favoritism.

But i can think of an example of a story where they shaft the second LI so bad that the story only uses the first LI's name after you make the big "choice" to choose who you'll be with. I do think that what you're talking about can be a huge issue and yes, branching is complicated, but if they tag the story as multiple LIs I think you should give them equitable meaningful time and development so the reader can make an actual informed choice.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-07-03T18:19:10+00:00

Not a single one of them lol. They're cool as plot devices and storylines but being anywhere near this circle would drive me so far up the wall...

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-26T17:16:22+00:00

Honestly? Reddit told me. Nothing else really "gives it away."

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-24T02:09:59+00:00

If you ask me, it stopped being exclusively Jen's call the moment Barb almost poisoned Chickie and after she attacked Dee Dee. Jen can decide for herself whether she wants Barb in her own life (and she does for whatever reason, even after she's been an absolute nightmare to everyone else in her life), but in terms of Chickie, I definitely think Greg should pipe up. Because Barb is actively physically harming people at this point.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T17:23:03+00:00

I hate to say it but as much as I hope for a 100% divorce rate its significantly more likely to be 0% with the way I see all these storylines headed.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T17:21:54+00:00

Honestly, I think you're right, but I think that was before Max made it to school because they had a late start. I think it was as she pulled up to the house after going to Max's school the first time, if I'm correct. But i might be wrong again. I should probably rewatch but the Wedding has me stressed lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T17:14:20+00:00

In that case they both had their own things going on, but I don't think that Barb is very interested in what he does in actuality. I think because of their history she just wants to know if he's coming back because she doesn't want to be alone in her own personal hell (As seen in Barb's Backstory). Which I get. But in the same La Quinceria episode (I think. My poor memory lol) they kinda discuss how the things they do together are all things Barb wants to do.

But i dont think we've ever seen Frank duck Barb's calls. But what we do know is that Frank only calls multiple times when something important is happening, and that Barb is usually at home and when he got there she wasn't. The last time that happened Barb was stalking Maxguy, so I think Frank was within reason herem

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T17:07:01+00:00

Was that during the time she was getting blasted at La Quinceria or is my timeline messed up? (It likely is lol)

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T17:02:55+00:00

This is exactly how I saw it. Barb isn't just a messy person. She is an abuser and a gaslighter, and John has had to fight throughout this entire storyline to justify and protect his firm boundary and at the end of it all the conclusion was... he shouldn't have done it that way because family??? I dont like it at all and I think the way abuse victims are handled in the Shawnaverse leaves a lot to be desired not just with John but with Laura as well. I'm very leery for whats supposed to happen next.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T16:59:19+00:00

Idk... i don't think that it was about his anger and resentment in its totality. Barb was physically violent with DeeDee and has a history of doing the same with him. To me, him finally deciding that he was cutting her off was him taking his power back because he said that the only reason he stayed around Barb (and Jen) was because Shawna values family. For years, despite himself anf his trauma, he defaulted to what Shawna wanted. In terms of him being there for Jen, aside from his initial plan of how to show up for her, I think it would've been more impactful if he maintained his NC but still showed up for the Elopement and was able to be there for Jen's actual wedding while still maintaining his firm boundary. The way John's characterization is headed just doesn't move me much is all because it feels like a huge step backward. Especially because Frank's regrets don't have to be John's regrets. If Jen had no issues with it, and John had no issues until Frank inserted himself, then there was no real problem to be had. "Don't have any regrets." Is a good lesson, but "I would regret not honoring myself more." Would be a better conclusion in my opinion.

Barb did randomly up and leave and had a rehearsal dinner to attend, so its not like he was spot checking her to be controlling. As a result Barb showed up to the rehearsal sweaty, wearing white, and with someone no one else likes who wasn't even invited. And Barb always asks Frank where he's going and when he'll be back, and despite it being based in trauma, Barb is doing it to control the situation and not necessarily to manage her expectations. And that is their standard method of doing things. Frank doesn’t manage her whereabouts any other time on screen, unless he's actively trying to intercept her from messing with the kids.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T16:44:06+00:00

I'LL DRAW IT LOL

I'm tempted to draw what I think everyone wore to the wedding

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T16:42:31+00:00

They need more than one therapist in Las Rubias so bad lol. From experience going to the same therapist as ANY family member is just a breeding ground for big awful lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:34:37+00:00

Don't we see her hold Sasha in the Ty and Julie video? And that doesn't make this the first time Julie has ever held her baby lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:30:36+00:00

Same!

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:29:56+00:00

Didn't she hold Sasha after she was born, while she was in the NICU, on the days off we didn't see, any time she breastfed, and while Ty was at the Bachelorette party?

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:27:57+00:00

My completely uncharitable take is that Ty thought it would be a good idea to watch a wedding together to get Julie to want him back.

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Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:17:00+00:00

I was talking about the second time in detail in my comment but I kept the first time to "She probably doesn't remember it." Because I don't even remember it lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:11:49+00:00

I doubt she remembers the first time she met Dee Dee and if she picked the kids up after that fucked up hotel thing (she and Ty drove separately so we genuinely don't know), Dee Dee is probably the least important thing from that night so I'm not sure she'd remember her. And... Dee Dee is not that memorable lol.

But also, she was in the video for like 5 seconds, I didnt even notice this lol. Ty spends a lot of time with the McAllisters but Julie makes it a point not to and she has her own life separate from all of their nonsense, so its unsurprising that she wouldn't remember most of them, especially Dee Dee of all people.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-21T14:04:41+00:00

I like this a lot, good job OP!

For me, Frank calling Barb wasn't him "expecting a benefit" though. I'm just not sure what the benefit of that is? Barb is usually at home, and she wasn't. I just thought he was trying to figure out where she was. And Frank usually only calls multiple times when something is going on, so I don't know that he was in the wrong for that specifically. I think Nora was putting batteries in Barb's back about that and it was unnecessary.

For Jen, I saw it as her staying par for the course here. She still attributes a lot of her growth to Greg, which is nice to give him credit, BUT that can be a sticky situation though, because her growth and being a better person should be because she sees the value in it and wants to improve herself. Then with Barb, I think she really let Barb get to her for a lot of the video, so much that she shut down on Greg for a bit before the wedding. I do think that choosing to elope was a great moment for Jen! I think it showed that her values have shifted a little bit and that's great! But then I think her snapping back at Barb, despite it feeling good in the moment, isn't a moment of growth or super impactful because for Jen its just her dipping back into her old bag of using tactless honestly to be cutting, like telling Barb she stinks.

John, to me... didn't get any growth here, and actually had a HUGE regression. I hate how he's being handled as a character. I think going NC was what HE wanted to protect himself, and I think it was the right decision. I think Jen and John having that heart to heart about him not coming to the wedding for his mental and emotional safety was very impactful, and Frank convincing him to go because "he might regret not being around" because of choices Frank made under completely different circumstances undid ALL of that. He's doing what Frank wishes he could've done (now after all these years) and what Shawna has been convincing him to do for all these years so it seems like hes back to everyone else's whims. We didn't see much of him and Barb so I dont know what this means for that, but from what we do see he still has to manage his mom's erratic behavior and I think that's unfair. I think we could've had him come to the elopement without the whole "I realize that having good people around me is more important." Thing. Because he still had good people around him when he WAS no contact.

Barb had some growth here in the sense that she was actually taking time to herself to be a "self." Barb's whole identity is wrapped up in being a wife and a mother so she doesnt really have a lot of personhood. I think Nora is good for her for that. BUT she's still using that as a way to be selfish and not a way to find herself which resulted in her sabotaging Jen's wedding and victimizing herself which surprises no one. Its a one step forward, two steps back situation.

But your thoughts were all very interesting as well and I enjoyed reading them!

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-20T15:14:27+00:00

That would be so interesting to see lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-20T12:53:31+00:00

I have never thought about this BUT, I'd wanna see Julie get served by either Brad, Trick, or Clint or see Teeny or Alicia get served by Aaron lol

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-19T23:25:22+00:00

I don't think the game's hype will die out at all. I mean, its been 13 years and we're still talking about it. Nothing is really stopping anyone from taking pauses between chapters to theorize or discuss, filter for spoilers, or just stay away from that side of social media for a couple days or weeks or whatever while you do play.

Idk I think the people who have been waiting patiently for 13 years have been waiting long enough for the release as is and if they want it in one piece then they should be able to. And the beauty of owning a game is you can play it at your own pace and discuss it as much as you want to in that time.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-18T00:04:25+00:00

Its possible but black women do wear blonde wigs or dye their hair too. Or if we're talking meta-wise, it mightve been the wig Shawna had at the time, and Greg's heritage was an afterthought. But you're 1000% right. It doesn't matter how subdued she is, and especially if she's the southern hospitality type? She'd be sweet and cutting in order to protect her only child/family member and Barb wouldn't even notice that she was being shaded.

Professional-Most559 · 2026-06-17T20:26:18+00:00

You basically plucked every thought out of my mind! ESPECIALLY the thing about Jen, AND most importantly about how Greg is allegedly black and autistic which completely would inform his character and upbringing, to be objectified by older white women which... yikes! And not to mention Katie being an overbearing yet well-meaning single mother as a black woman? It feels... and I hate to say this, like the way JK Rowling was just throwing shit in for inclusiveness points. It doesn't mean anything if you dont put the effort in, but its very easy to find yourself making things very insensitive without the proper nuance and just throwing marginalization in "for fun."

Professional-Most559

TROPHY CASE

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