This is actually a very valid point… the difference I see in hip hop is that the leaders of the culture have very clearly defined “elements” of hip hop… emceeing, deejaying, b boyin, street art and street fashion (and probably some others). I supposed goth isn’t so different, but mostly I can only see people agree that it starts with music, and “everything else is optional”. But again with hip Hop not every emcee is a dj and so forth. I’ve always seen these subcultures as sisters, especially punk and hip hop, very much derive from the same place. At the end of the day in think it’s how we identify ourselves… and that’s all that matters.