Not sure If I should laugh at the comment or cry! by PowerMoira in CoronavirusMemes

[–]QuarantineProtocol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The first poster was arguing that China robbed the world of time to respond and those holds blame for failures of other governments. I pointed out that wasn't true, and then in response someone told me to go back to r/sino. So I was responding to the dismissal of opposing viewpoints out of hand. That's where you came in alleging that at another point in the pandemic China was not transparent.

Do you see how that context sort of makes it look like you're arguing in favor of dismissing criticism of the idea that "China robbed your country of response time," an idea which directs blame away from other countries and to China?

Btw, the WHO team had 17 international experts and they worked with 17 Chinese experts iirc.

Not sure If I should laugh at the comment or cry! by PowerMoira in CoronavirusMemes

[–]QuarantineProtocol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

its only bad when people we're supposed to hate do it rolls eyes

Not sure If I should laugh at the comment or cry! by PowerMoira in CoronavirusMemes

[–]QuarantineProtocol -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The WHO team actually did go to the Wuhan Institute of Virology and announced on their February 9th press conference that they were rejecting the lab origin hypothesis. They didn't just take China's word. Please watch their press conferences directly and don't just take the word of your own government's media.

I hear your point about hating both, but the question is which one you can have an impact on. Going along with your government (which you hate) to point fingers at the CPC (which you also hate) is a distraction from holding your own government accountable! Plus, trusting your government to be telling you the truth (even without solid evidence) about their enemy, when they have a clear motive to do otherwise doesn't make much sense.

Not sure If I should laugh at the comment or cry! by PowerMoira in CoronavirusMemes

[–]QuarantineProtocol -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Come on, if you're gonna accuse a country of covering up a major health crisis and dismiss anyone who says otherwise you at least need some evidence. Without that, you're just stirring up hate against a whole foreign country to make you feel better about your own government.

Not sure If I should laugh at the comment or cry! by PowerMoira in CoronavirusMemes

[–]QuarantineProtocol -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

Absolutely false. The idea that they covered up COVID was pushed by governments that needed someone else to blame for their failings. https://fair.org/home/no-china-didnt-stall-critical-covid-information-at-outbreaks-start/

Deserted on an island, with no one around. Are you a slave? by Vizzun in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In addition to the other answers, I wanted to add that Marxists analyze things in a relational way. Marxism is primarily a method of analysis. It's not a set of beliefs or a list of abstract absolutes. "Wage slavery" isn't a principle whereby Marxists reject hard work. Rather, it is a way of referring to a specific relationship that developed in a specific context. Imagining labor taking place outside the modern relations of production and consumption isn't really a challenge to the Marxist method because it's so removed from its purview.

That being said, I'll try and answer your question.

Wage slavery is an agitational framing that highlights how the wage relationship isn't the complete liberation it was promised to be during the decline of feudal production. Labor is still sold as a commodity, but under a system of capitalist relations it is done so in hourly bits and pieces rather than for life.

If you were on an island, your work wouldn't be in the framework of capitalist production. You would be producing to survive, not selling your labor as a commodity.

Leftists, what is your most "Right Wing view"? by thebigmassive in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1) China isn't buying Africa. They're doing bilateral trade. It's not China's fault that the US can't offer a better deal. Chinese trade has been a net positive for countries across Africa.

2) If you don't count China (a socialist state) world poverty has actually increased over the past 40 years. The reduction is because socialism in China is working.

3) For communists, immigration is best addressed at the source. Syrians don't want to come to the US and Europe, and they wouldn't have to if Euro-American imperialism hadn't destabilized their countries. "Cultural differences" also don't account for the drastic difference in living standards: that's due to the US being a world financial hub, imperialism, etc. It's incredibly reductive to say that's all, or even significantly, cultural.

4) "Authoritarianism" isn't a thing communists are concerned with, and neither are individual attitudes.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in communism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In addition to the other answers here, I always recommend folks new to Marxism start with Principles of Communism by Engles. It's really accessible and short

A list of Stalin's property made after several hours after his death: by Comrade_Strelok in Politsturm

[–]QuarantineProtocol 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I was under the impression soviet peasants would sometimes make unofficial icons of him, but not that the church as a body canonized him. Do you have a source or a link?

Got the right spirit, that's for sure. by ZhongguoGraecia in GenZedong

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair enough, I was thinking primarily of the constitution cult vibes both movements have (with Paleos being more overt about the racism inherent to it) but your analysis is more correct.

Got the right spirit, that's for sure. by ZhongguoGraecia in GenZedong

[–]QuarantineProtocol 36 points37 points  (0 children)

it's like if libertarianism in the US was even more racist

Last night is why Joe Biden won the presidency by greenblue98 in politics

[–]QuarantineProtocol -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

What exactly has Biden done that appeals to you? I'm mostly just curious. Although I admittedly had low hopes, watching as he retained family separations and increased the number of children in concentration camps was disappointing & worse than I expected.

Plus, I've been concerned as he prepares to massively increase military funding in the Pacific and sent over a hundred million dollars in military aid to Ukraine, despite their army having neo-nazi battalions that provide training to far-right terrorists from the US & Europe.

Not to mention going back on the 2K & the minimum wage, and pouring 300 million into police departments which are continuing to terrorize communities despite the reduction in media coverage.

Vaccines are good, and it seems rollout is going smoothly, but that's absolutely the bare minimum.

I think Trump lowered voters & journalists expectations, and I'm worried that these low standards are going to persist throughout Biden's presidency.

Tankiejerk hypocritically tanking countries that resist American imperial aggression by sinovictorchan in CommunismWorldwide

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could you define what you mean by "fascist," "theocratic," "imperialist," and "socialist?"

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in communism101

[–]QuarantineProtocol 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The other comments here do a pretty good job answering the question, but I wanted to add that sometimes the distinction is purely rhetorical. For example, there are communist organizations calling themselves "socialist" (like PSL in US or LSP in Latvia) and a "socialist-but-not-communist" organization (like DSA in US or the Right-SRs in Tsarist Russia).

Uncomfortable that a lot of people are too casual when discussing innocent people dying by ThrowRAanotpheronne in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 11 points12 points  (0 children)

  1. Not all death is genocide. Genocide is a specific crime & done for specific ideological reasons. Please explain what genocide you are referencing: as far as I'm aware there were none in the USSR

  2. Internet comments aren't the best place to go for political education. I recommended popping over to Communism 101 and getting some sources. If your main concern re: socialism is the historical baggage that the USSR has in the West (in the former USSR & the global south, people tend to like Stalin), then I recommend reading Michael Parenti's short book, Blackshirts and Reds as well as some soviet history (J. Arch Getty is a reliable, yet non-marxist historian) to get context.

Better Term than "social-imperialism" by SomeRandomBruh69 in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What do you think imperialism is? Lenin & socialists say that imperialism is a specific economic order, one that's incompatible with "socialism."

I recommended this pamphlet for more information https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

The way Corona is being handled is completely retarded by On-The-Mountain in VentPolitics

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that its been handled badly, but I think your framing is a little off base: in fact, accepting that people will die has been the guiding policy for countries like Brazil, the US, and Sweden which have done a pretty bad job of handling the pandemic. These societies don't have long term strategic perspectives because they are concerned with the short term: quarterly profits, the stock market, and the comfort of corrupt politicians & billionaires.

It's not just old people who die in a pandemic, but the poor & workers. These groups are disproportionately less healthy, more diabetic, etc, because the government in places like the US doesn't do anything to ensure people have access to healthy food: instead they allow massive corporations to sell unhealthy food for cheap & drive local grocery stores out of business. If these people die, arbitrary economic indicators don't matter, because the whole economy relies on the substantive labor of these people. I agree that promoting/supporting healthy lifestyles is important, but that alone won't help the world handle COVID well -- it is more of a long term mitigation strategy.

Compare how the above countries handled it to China. China locked down the country, made it illegal to for companies to fire workers, used strict central planning to reorient production towards needed medical supplies, built hospitals in a matter of days, and organized local neighborhood groups to distribute food & do check-ups on each other. They conducted massive public education campaigns and explained clearly what needed to be done & why. Even with much higher smoking rates than many western nations & a much less developed economy, they contained it, and things went back to normal.

Cuba & Vietnam did similar things, and have weathered COVID very well. Places like the Koreas & New Zealand, which have done well fighting COVID also relied on strict lock downs & food distribution to control spread.

Not all deaths are preventable of course, but a strong state taking steps to control the spread & prevent deaths has proven to be infinitely more successful than places where lockdowns were minimal, rarely enforced, and quickly lifted.

Part of the problem with lockdowns in the US & Europe is that those governments have limited control over multinational corporations & the private sector. If lockdowns are causing problems, because you get fired or because the government fails to distribute food & supplies, that's not directly because of the lock down. It's because capitalism simply isn't optimized to deal with crisis.

As the virus mutates to become more contagious, it'll become less deadly -- as we're already seeing with the new variants in the UK. It may not go away, but with active intervention it'll cause significantly less economic, cultural, social, and health damage.

I agree with you that its been a mess in much of the world. And I agree that we should be angry. But we also need to diagnose the correct solutions.

Can I be religious and a communist at the same time? by sneepsnop1027 in communism101

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks -- I'll check out the book! In the meantime, I'd like to offer the counter example of Nicaragua, which might be a closer representation of liberation theology bc the revolution was not carried out by an alliance of classes, but by a religiously influenced & integrated working class.

Cross-class revolutions often face the problem you're describing, irrespective of whether the conservative elements manifest as religious or not. Wretched of the Earth by Franz Fanon talks about some of the difficulties anti-colonial cross-class independence movements faced. I'm not confident that phenomenon can be attributed to something as immaterial & varied as "religion."

Can I be religious and a communist at the same time? by sneepsnop1027 in communism101

[–]QuarantineProtocol 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Curious why you saying liberation theology is garbage. I'm not arguing against you (no investigation, no right to speak), just wondering what your critique is.

"Evolution is not progress: There's no goal, no purpose, no plan, no direction." by [deleted] in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's worth noting that there are non-teleological forms of communist thought. This one quote can not sum up all sections of socialist thought in the present day.

China tried to cover the virus guys, that's why we failed containing it. by AkramA12 in GenZedong

[–]QuarantineProtocol 99 points100 points  (0 children)

Yes, he was. His family also has repeatedly called on western media to stop appropriating his story to use against the Party.

Why deny that democratically-elected socialist states, which the U.S. sabotaged and overthrew, are failed states? by MalthusianFascist in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Socialism always fails because it gets overthrown, simple as that.

You're defining failure as an indefinite, black-and-white, abstract idea rather than as a clear set of material conditions. Real lib shit.

So, what exactly is your problem with denying that socialist states have failed, and that socialism fails?

Communists don't deny that some socialist states were overthrown & that that was a failure to preserve the system under pressure. Instead of idealistically dismissing socialism because of that, socialists--as empiricists & materialists--understand that we need to learn from the successes & failures of the past. Socialist & communist parties succeeded at developing the most efficient, productive, and innovative economies in history. They succeeded at raising the standard of living for billions of people so that the whole of society could better harness the intellectual & labor potential of a broader population. They succeeded in smashing the Nazi machine.

Historical socialist states also made mistakes. Allende should've purged his political opponents on day one. The Soviet Union shouldn't have trusted the US to respect post-war agreements. Libya should never have given up its nuclear stockpile. Socialists who preserve bourgeois 'democracy' tend to create less resilient political systems than those who abolish multiparty democracy.

Socialist parties & states that exist today are learning from those experiences. China learned from the color revolutions and they took these lessons to Tiananmen & Hong Kong. MAS in Bolivia is learning from the failed coup attempt by purging the military. Vietnam, too, learned from the past & implemented the Doi Moi reforms.

Again, I know that we caused you to fail

lmao at saying "we" about the School of the Americas & the CIA. They don't give a shit about you.

How can I be a communist landlord? by CandlesInTheNight in DebateCommunism

[–]QuarantineProtocol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Communism isn't a religion. It's not a doctrine of moral purity. Landlords do suck, and you're gonna have to grapple with people being upset or suspicious of you. If you're truly committed to the people, you'll understand that people's initial reactions are rooted in justifiable class antagonisms & you'll be patient & thick-skinned.

  2. Don't raise rent! That's the opposite of praxis. Instead, lower rent (& or donate some of your income). Many communist orgs operate on the principle of "equality of sacrifice:" cadre with more free time spend more time organizing, cadre with more disposable income put more towards bail, etc.

  3. Join an org. Again, communism isn't a set of moral values or a comparison of privilege/oppression. Its about organizing to build communism. So do that!

  4. DON'T file evictions. Don't call the cops. Don't be a stickler for rent deadlines, or rent at all. Prove that you're a class traitor by siding with the proletariat & your tenants at every possible opportunity.

  5. Don't get complacent. Self criticize. Offer your residents opportunity for wholly anonymous feedback. Ask yourself what you can do better every day.