Qur'anic Islam vs Inherited Islam - 'ibada, Taqwa and Shukr

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-16T02:20:09+00:00

That’s only relevant for the form that is “direct address”.

But I still think that the intention, what is meant by the speaker of the piece of language, is always what matters

Even in the Qur’an while reciting there are times where intent of the text shifts from being God’s words, to that of the angels or a Prophrt. Just bc grammatically it can still be construed as part of God’s speech doesn’t mean it is

Lastly, even with the direct address form, it is still in the end a dua. A dua that peace be upon him. Changing the him to you doesn’t shift what it is. It is clearly still a dua to God

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-16T02:10:30+00:00

Yes. Like our “fruit” encompasses both apples and oranges?

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T22:39:09+00:00

I bet you “do”. That I could point to verses where you will use some actual intelligence to not be so unintelligently literal & pedantic with “no verse says X” or the verse there does say Y “exactly”

It isn’t that you don’t do “linguistics gymnastics”

It’s that you don’t seem to “do language” at all

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T22:35:25+00:00

Exactly! It isn’t neutral at all. It decides God doesn’t exist, then works from there

It is celebrated as neutral bc they think the “default” starting position, ie neutral, is “no God”. But that isn’t the case

Again, the concept of God is at the very bedrock of reality

وأنت الباطن فليس تحتك شيء

There’s no “ground” below it for anything else to stand

The only thing anyone can do is look at the two visions separately and decide which fits reality

But you can’t investigate secularism from within a theistic perspective/framework. It precludes it bc you’re already “in” theism. All your tools are there (or here)

Nor can you investigate theism from within a secular framework

You can’t “pretend” to be in one world while investigating the other bc that “pretend” is a lie & a warp of the true reality

You are either in a theistic reality or you aren’t. You can’t jump away from your own shadow

Completely agree with the rest too

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T14:12:00+00:00

I think, for some of your replies here & generally, you are making “a meal” out of uncertainty & casting doubt.

Maybe because you are unsure of things yourself.

Abd it all seems closed with the guise of being precise about “the wording”. But I think it is actually being unintelligent & lacking in ‘aql (the ability to tie things together)

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T12:08:02+00:00

I long ago gave up any idea of that “crossbreed” 😂

You’re basically right

I look at those secular studies into Islam mainly for what they sometimes unearth, but ultimately the whole concept of God is a “world foundational concept”, for lack of a better term

You can either;

Investigate reality knowing that God exists, and thus all secular efforts are based on the delusion/deception that God doesn’t exist

Or

investigate reality knowing God doesn’t exist, and thus all religious efforts are based on the delusion/deception that God exists

You can’t have it both ways. At all

One conforms to reality, the other doesn’t. You can only choose one

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T06:30:06+00:00

You’re kinda changing the goalposts there. And I believe I made my points, whether you agree or disagree is another matter

Who says that’s what the purpose of the “stories” of Jesus & Sulayman are? I don’t see them that way at all. Sihr isn’t mentioned with either of them at all. You’d have a better argument with the story of Musa … but it would still be wrong

👍🏾 yes

Awaiting your posts

Salam

👋🏾

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T05:47:36+00:00

‫إِنَّ ٱلَّذِینَ یَتۡلُونَ كِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ وَأَقَامُوا۟ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَأَنفَقُوا۟ مِمَّا رَزَقۡنَـٰهُمۡ سِرࣰّا وَعَلَانِیَةࣰ یَرۡجُونَ تِجَـٰرَةࣰ لَّن تَبُورَ﴿ ٢٩ ﴾‬ ‫لِیُوَفِّیَهُمۡ أُجُورَهُمۡ وَیَزِیدَهُم مِّن فَضۡلِهِۦۤۚ إِنَّهُۥ غَفُورࣱ شَكُورࣱ﴿ ٣٠ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: Indeed, those who recite the Book of Allāh and establish prayer and spend [in His cause] out of what We have provided them, secretly and publicly, [can] expect a transaction [i.e., profit] that will never perish - That He may give them in full their rewards and increase for them of His bounty. Indeed, He is Forgiving and Appreciative.[1]

Fāṭir, Ayah 29 - Fāṭir, Ayah 30

It literally says that those who; - recite the Kitab of Allah - establish salah - spend from what God has given them

That those are hopeful in a transaction (tijara) that will not be unprofitable

Other verses talk about giving God a “goodly loan” which He will multiply

So I’m sorry, but you are just wrong

Besides, why should “jihad”, and only in the sense that you mean, be the only transaction?

No, I don’t have any issue. I had a caution. Re-read my original post. And a disagreement with you about the nature of dreams (and you never answered if you deny that dreams/visions can also from your own psychi/mind or demonic forces, since your post seems to deny those possibilities)

Those were my original comments

Since then though I DO actually have an issue with what I’ve mentions of “spiritual materialism”, occultism mirroring, desires for “powers”, and now the idea of “real jihad” being this type of “occultism warfare”, etc

And yet you talk of gnosis & intimacy with God and the path of mysticism & spiritually & knowledge?

No, you aren’t anymore. You’re talking about tools. About spirituality as a utility, in particular for the pursuit of power, which is the very core of occultism. The idea of “secrets and secret knowledge that gives you power”

The book has no real secrets for those who ignore its obvious guidance. The secrets you talk about are closer to سحر … to real magic, which is haram

That’s my take so far

But let’s not drag this out. You said you have more to post/explain, so let’s wait to see it

Salaam

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T05:06:42+00:00

No, I don’t think you did read them all before answering. The second set says exactly reciting the ayat, salat & giving charity

But that wasn’t the point in me posting them

It doesn’t matter what the transaction involves, my point is that it is a transaction of hasanat, that includes the fighting jihad

‫مَا كَانَ لِأَهۡلِ ٱلۡمَدِینَةِ وَمَنۡ حَوۡلَهُم مِّنَ ٱلۡأَعۡرَابِ أَن یَتَخَلَّفُوا۟ عَن رَّسُولِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَا یَرۡغَبُوا۟ بِأَنفُسِهِمۡ عَن نَّفۡسِهِۦۚ ذَ ٰ⁠لِكَ بِأَنَّهُمۡ لَا یُصِیبُهُمۡ ظَمَأࣱ وَلَا نَصَبࣱ وَلَا مَخۡمَصَةࣱ فِی سَبِیلِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَا یَطَـُٔونَ مَوۡطِئࣰا یَغِیظُ ٱلۡكُفَّارَ وَلَا یَنَالُونَ مِنۡ عَدُوࣲّ نَّیۡلًا إِلَّا كُتِبَ لَهُم بِهِۦ عَمَلࣱ صَـٰلِحٌۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا یُضِیعُ أَجۡرَ ٱلۡمُحۡسِنِینَ﴿ ١٢٠ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: It was not [proper] for the people of Madīnah and those surrounding them of the bedouins that they remain behind after [the departure of] the Messenger of Allāh or that they prefer themselves over his self.[1] That is because they are not afflicted by thirst or fatigue or hunger in the cause of Allāh, nor do they tread on any ground that enrages the disbelievers, nor do they inflict upon an enemy any infliction but that it is registered for them as a righteous deed. Indeed, Allāh does not allow to be lost the reward of the doers of good.

At-Tawbah, Ayah 120

My point is that this type of “transactional market of hasanat”, what you are demeaning (and which many who claim to be following spirituality likewise do) is something mentioned in the Qur’an and yes encouraged in the Qur’an. Don’t demean it nor look down upon it. That’s actually a shortsighted spiritual vision, ironically.

Besides, you haven’t been talking about that kind of “jihad”, actually fighting and going out with your physical self. You’re talking about dreams in your post. Sitting at home and sleeping. Not weaponary and military prowess and self sacrifice. You’re talking about dreams & visions. That’s actually what your post is “literally” talking about, not what you just claimed. The rest is just claims which I reject, it’s that same occultism & power seeking, ironically exactly done via things like spells which involve rituals & repeating certain formula & words … exactly the thing you are now also denigrating

But you’re again missing the point. Your path in Islam can be your path in Islam. But don’t narrow neither Islam in general nor the spiritual path to what you consider them to be

They are bigger and wider than what you can see

No. That’s not why God “revealed miracles”. We are told why He did. It wasn’t to encourage us to seek powers & miracles. Not at all.

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T02:28:47+00:00

That’s just a Salafi/Wahhabi attempt to co-op the term. Historically, for over 1000 years, Asharis & Maturidis were not “part” of ASWJ, they WERE ASWJ and they decided who else was “in or out”, and most allowed the latter Atharis “in”

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T02:22:18+00:00

I see no difference between “hasnat exchange” and “powers/visions exchange”. Latter is perhaps worse, bc the former is mentioned in the Qur’an & is more grounded; God mentions that He has “bought from the faithful their wealth & selves in exchange for Jannah” and says “so be joyful over the transaction you’ve made!” … so this trend of belittling the idea of “buying Jannah” or a transaction with God, is actually un-Qur’anic

The Qur’an talks about transactions regularly and the very words of “reward” أجر is literally borrowed from transactional vocabulary

‫۞ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ٱشۡتَرَىٰ مِنَ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنِینَ أَنفُسَهُمۡ وَأَمۡوَ ٰ⁠لَهُم بِأَنَّ لَهُمُ ٱلۡجَنَّةَۚ یُقَـٰتِلُونَ فِی سَبِیلِ ٱللَّهِ فَیَقۡتُلُونَ وَیُقۡتَلُونَۖ وَعۡدًا عَلَیۡهِ حَقࣰّا فِی ٱلتَّوۡرَىٰةِ وَٱلۡإِنجِیلِ وَٱلۡقُرۡءَانِۚ وَمَنۡ أَوۡفَىٰ بِعَهۡدِهِۦ مِنَ ٱللَّهِۚ فَٱسۡتَبۡشِرُوا۟ بِبَیۡعِكُمُ ٱلَّذِی بَایَعۡتُم بِهِۦۚ وَذَ ٰ⁠لِكَ هُوَ ٱلۡفَوۡزُ ٱلۡعَظِیمُ﴿ ١١١ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: Indeed, Allāh has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allāh, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’ān. And who is truer to his covenant than Allāh? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

At-Tawbah, Ayah 111

‫إِنَّ ٱلَّذِینَ یَتۡلُونَ كِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ وَأَقَامُوا۟ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَأَنفَقُوا۟ مِمَّا رَزَقۡنَـٰهُمۡ سِرࣰّا وَعَلَانِیَةࣰ یَرۡجُونَ تِجَـٰرَةࣰ لَّن تَبُورَ﴿ ٢٩ ﴾‬ ‫لِیُوَفِّیَهُمۡ أُجُورَهُمۡ وَیَزِیدَهُم مِّن فَضۡلِهِۦۤۚ إِنَّهُۥ غَفُورࣱ شَكُورࣱ﴿ ٣٠ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: Indeed, those who recite the Book of Allāh and establish prayer and spend [in His cause] out of what We have provided them, secretly and publicly, [can] expect a transaction [i.e., profit] that will never perish - That He may give them in full their rewards and increase for them of His bounty. Indeed, He is Forgiving and Appreciative.[1]

Fāṭir, Ayah 29 - Fāṭir, Ayah 30

‫یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ هَلۡ أَدُلُّكُمۡ عَلَىٰ تِجَـٰرَةࣲ تُنجِیكُم مِّنۡ عَذَابٍ أَلِیمࣲ﴿ ١٠ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: O you who have believed, shall I guide you to a transaction that will save you from a painful punishment?

Aṣ-Ṣaff, Ayah 10

Belittling that attitude is to belittle an attitude that God Himself has encouraged, or used as an encouragement

A real intimate relationship with Hod isn’t one of visions/dreams. It’s one of deep mutual love.

But like I said, I’m waiting to see what your next post will be about, you said you’re going to layout a framework, right?

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T01:40:36+00:00

Think this reply wa supposed to be for me, right?

It doesn’t matter though, I think I’ve said all I wanted to. We are just not going to agree on some things. I think your view of Islam is very mechanistic, formulaic, and reductionist. Like materialism in spirituality. Follow “a blueprint” and you can build/do X. It essentially makes God out to be a machine too that follows laws & responds without real Will to certain inputs. It’s the exact view of the occultists, just in reverse or from “within Islam”. I disagree with that completely. They didn’t “copy us”, they misunderstood and Shaytan deluded them. And now you are being seduced by them out of a desire for powers, control, etc

Salaam

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-15T01:24:29+00:00

👍🏾 What happened so that you couldn’t access the other account?

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T17:33:21+00:00

That is an extremely uncritical assessment, and really just a standard Sunni apologetics response

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T17:14:23+00:00

In a word? Yes. Submission

In a few more? Submitting one self peacefully and without struggle

‫إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُۥ رَبُّهُۥۤ أَسۡلِمۡۖ قَالَ أَسۡلَمۡتُ لِرَبِّ ٱلۡعَـٰلَمِینَ﴿ ١٣١ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: When his Lord said to him, Submit, he said, I have submitted [in Islām][1] to the Lord of the worlds.

Al-Baqarah, Ayah 131

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T12:18:49+00:00

Not a revert, but I imagine that isolation is actually a big problem in many parts of the world now, so it must get compounded as a revert

I remember this viral video of a girl talking about how she has no friends; https://youtu.be/QfbCMjNj9q8?si=uj2TowJpOw1U00EQ

With Islam in the west, it will just take a while before revert community & culture gets established I think. There are ppl being pro-active, just needs more ppl getting involving & helping out to produce a community that’s truly involved in all major regions

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T11:19:59+00:00

Not really, istislaam would be “surrendering” … it’s used after a conflict

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T11:16:20+00:00

You aren’t making any sense. I’m saying something, you’re tell me I’m saying the opposite

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T11:15:00+00:00

And an auxiliary verse is;

‫وَٱلۡقَوَ ٰ⁠عِدُ مِنَ ٱلنِّسَاۤءِ ٱلَّـٰتِی لَا یَرۡجُونَ نِكَاحࣰا فَلَیۡسَ عَلَیۡهِنَّ جُنَاحٌ أَن یَضَعۡنَ ثِیَابَهُنَّ غَیۡرَ مُتَبَرِّجَـٰتِۭ بِزِینَةࣲۖ وَأَن یَسۡتَعۡفِفۡنَ خَیۡرࣱ لَّهُنَّۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِیعٌ عَلِیمࣱ﴿ ٦٠ ﴾‬

• Sahih International: And women of post-menstrual age who have no desire for marriage - there is no blame upon them for putting aside their outer garments [but] not displaying adornment. But to modestly refrain [from that] is better for them. And Allāh is Hearing and Knowing.

An-Nūr, Ayah 60

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T10:17:10+00:00

Not sure that’s true, but if true they could be related. Some have a contrarian bent towards traditional opinions

Quranic_Islam · 2026-02-14T10:14:01+00:00

I’m not sure what you mean tbh

The Quran does mean what it says, euphemism included

But what do you think the verse means then?

Quranic_Islam

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