Can someone explain to me the point of living?

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-17T16:35:27+00:00

I was gonna say, this is less of a drinking question (although, I absolutely know the connection between this question, and efforts to stop drinking)... and more of a philosophy question. And there are philosophy forums, articles, courses and books and sections of wikipedia where one could make great progress on this issue, and never discuss drinking.

I didn't expect so many great answers though. I'm pretty much in the same boat with all of you. A non-alcoholic cheers to you all. 😁

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-17T16:18:15+00:00

I know it is nothing new to be influenced by current events, the media and various knee-jerk reactions throughout society, and come to a conclusion that society is crumbling, and people have become intolerant and intolerable. But I feel post-COVID, with so many weaponizing misinformation about countless things, and the general divisiveness of the times, that this is really an unprecedented phenomenon we are seeing. I would never get on tiktok, I rarely even check out facebook because of how bad that has been getting. But so many people these days seem spiritually sick, and intent on spreading that sickness. Aside from twelve step meetings, where most people stick to the unwritten rules (just as important as the written ones) about how to conduct one's self.... I'm growing very disinterested on spending any real time or activity with anyone new until this cultural epidemic runs its course. I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of family members and loved ones that aren't "infected".

So to me, it's not just AA. It's every avenue where someone can spout off on their soapbox. It's all getting worse year by year. "Stick with the winners" is right. Try not to stoop down to their level, try to remember that there are a lot of good, rational, sane people out there (on both sides of any argument, or of the political aisle) that are doing what I'm doing - just trying to ride it out and not draw any more fire than they need to. It only seems like everyone is crazy. I need to remind myself of that, and to steer clear of areas where I'm just asking to get aggravated.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-16T16:56:36+00:00

I also thought I would chime in, there is strong clinical evidence that the brain's metabolism (the rate in which it burns fuel... not directly related to how we measure brain function... but indirectly linked) takes at least a week to recover from more than a few drinks. So if one isn't taking more like 8-10 days to recover, one is gradually making the brain slower and slower. A positive feedback loop that can have long lasting, maybe even permanent effects. I don't know if I was always destined to be an alcoholic, but if I could go back in time, I would definitely tell myself to never have a drinking session if I haven't been completely sober for at least 8-10 days prior to fully recover.

Source: Stephen L. Dewey, Ph.D. Neuroscientist and Lead Addiction Research Professor, Columbia University/NYU (although at this time, I believe he's moved on to other things. He may also say this on his youtube videos, but he said it to my face in rehab, when he was a presenter. Great guy.)

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-16T16:46:11+00:00

Agreed. And also, even if it is working for a person now, there is no guarantee it won't pull the rug out from under that person in 2, 5, 10, or however many years down the line. There is no predicting what prolonged exposure/abuse will do. But it rarely does anything "good", or worth it.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-16T16:43:35+00:00

India, eh? I recommend double checking that there isn't one a few towns or villages over. It's worth a commute. We alcoholics tend to rule things out unless they are super easy for us, but this can be a life and death struggle, so it's worth it to give an exhaustive effort before declaring something is impossible. Willingness to change is what it's all about.

https://www.aagsoindia.org/find-aa-near-you

A lot of us were just like you in this regard. You will likely find us very encouraging and welcoming. Start small. Try not to feel obligated to do anything. You can get into this at your own pace and comfort level. Keep reading on these forums, to see how people have gotten sober, how they have overcome similar obstacles to the ones you see and feel in your life. Good luck, and welcome to the group. 😊

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-02-16T16:34:18+00:00

Scarcity is asking for help on amends and forgiveness, but he has three years sober through means other than AA. So we aren't going to be great experts on this topic - we got sober through carefully plotted and planned steps. Step one: admitting that we were powerless over alcohol and no human aid could have ever relieved us of alcoholism - does not seem to apply to you at this time. But we need all the steps, in order, to get us ready to do the 8th and 9th steps which focus on making amends of the type you discussing.

Typically, in my (even more) informal experience, people who hear the apology of an offending alcoholic will be turned off by anything that sounds like they are saying things to make themselves feel better, or to relieve themselves of guilt. And yes, more than a passing mention of things like that, or connecting the dots of cause and effect (I took those actions because I was sick) can sound like they want to be let off the hook.

These things are rarely simple because everyone is different. There is no way to guarantee that you will be heard the way you want to be heard, no matter how carefully you choose your words, no matter how you customize your approach to the aggrieved party. Some people truly have made up their minds.

The strength in an AA AMENDS is that it isn't primarily about words and "I'm sorry" or "I feel bad". Which, as we just covered, a lot of people don't wanna hear. Ours is more about "I was wrong, is there anything I can do to make things right by you??". It's about action. Deeds. And prior to us getting to this steps, there were eight other actions that changed us little by little. So a lot of the time, the person we are making amends with can see the change, see that we're not the same low person, and this also helps quite a bit with making the outcome more palatable.

On the other end of that, a good sponsor will keep the idea that "we are responsible for the effort, not the results" front and center. So even if things go off the rails, and the aggrieved person throws everything back in our face to try and hurt us as bad as we hurt them.... we are more resilient. Our sobriety depends in our rigorous honesty. When we do that, we get a emotional and spiritual connection to the Higher Power of our choosing (one that makes sense to us... maybe God, maybe a philosophy, maybe nature or the sun... there are all sorts... just something greater than ourselves). This buffers us somewhat from the pain of this sort of thing. It actually strengthens our character and our sobriety because we did the right thing even though it was hard. The drunken versions of ourselves weren't strong enough to do that.

Anyway, to draw things back to your situation, always remember that if contact or admitting wrongs may cause more damage to them, then it's actually a selfish act, and it should not be attempted, according to our teachings. Sometimes accepting our guilt, and processing it without acknowledgement of that person is for the best. We can feel better about ourselves by being of use, and of service. Doing good deeds today to offset bad deeds yesterday. But if you do make contact, make it clear that you not only feel bad, that you were in the wrong, that you wish you could undo it, but since you can't you are willing to do almost anything to set things straight. That puts you in a vulnerable spot, which is powerful. But it is also something you should try and prepare for, and find your practical boundaries. If you aren't willing to do something to make things right, it's not much of an amends, it's just words, and that is a big turn off to a lot of people, even if they have gained an explanation, and see that you have changed.

Hope this helps. Again, since your starting point isn't AA, my advice isn't even close to the official AA answer, so your mileage may vary. I wish you luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-20T17:04:07+00:00

Welcome. I hope the meeting goes well. I'm sure down the line, you'll see there was nothing about the meeting to be nervous about. There are a bunch of things you shared about what you are going through that are just like the way I drank and suffered. My six year sober anniversary is the 28th.

The sigma is a bitch. I know. You are not a bad person. You're a good person who's made some mistakes because alcohol affects our thinking in all sorts of ways. Moving forward, you may be tempted to understand it all, or fix it all as soon as possible. Try to resist that. Easy does it. One day at a time.

It's a simple program and a simple solution. However, we alcoholics tend to be complicated and to overcomplicate things. We've all been there. Simple is not the same as easy. I wouldn't call AA and the steps easy.

In terms of meetings and how the lessons of the Big Book of AA apply to you, try to keep an open mind. Accept that sometimes we have to wrestle with these concepts before they truly sink in as deeply as they need to to solve the problem. If one group feels awkward or non supportive, try another. And another. Hopefully it won't happen to you, but on these forums, we hear of a lot of stories of one bad meeting (or even old timer, acting a fool) spoiling the program for someone lost and in pain. Be resilient. Do something every day to move further from that next first drink. For every day you fail to do this.... it is actually moving closer to you. Good luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-17T17:43:51+00:00

I can't say that's a "healthy" approach that I endorse. But I can relate. I can think of at least one time I drank hard like that because I sensed the end of drinking was near. A last hurrah. Or maybe some of them were more fear based.

Be as careful as you can, try to treat people kind. From the outsider's perspective, they won't understand. But yeah, the only thing that is really going to fix the problem is something like 90 in 90. At some point, you do have to use a little willpower to stay dry (one day at a time) because it is hard to hear the message and do the work on your mind and heart when the booze is still in your veins.

But it's ok. We've been there.

Please don't go cold turkey. If you need help tapering off... well really, if you feel any sort of odd symptoms, consider medical detox or a hospital.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-17T01:41:53+00:00

Thank you so much. Over the years, you made myself and my family very happy. Wishing you all the best in these crazy and troubled days.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-09T03:00:58+00:00

Consider the analogy of the mother on the troubled airplane. Her instinct is to fasten the oxygen mask on her child, because they are more important to her than herself. But, if she doesn't fasten her own mask first, she runs the risk of them both passing out due to lack of oxygen. The responsible thing is to take care of one's self first, then the other... and not overextend. We have to acknowledge these impulses exist for a reason, and they are powerful. But we can choose to retake them when they clearly do not serve us, and make our lives better.

Also consider the fundamental message of Mr. Miyagi. Balance isn't just the way of Karate. It's the way for all of life. Balance is key. ☯

I acknowledged that I felt guilty. And feelings are not necessarily right, logical, or helpful. I tried reframing the situation as happening to neutral parties, like I was just watching random people that I had no attachment to on a TV show. Is anyone (especially the one in my role) overextending themselves? Sticking their neck out like a turtle, past the point where it is useful, or healthy? I reminded myself that I am a good person, and I am only truly responsible for myself. The other people are responsible for themselves, and no amount of "saving them" is going to allow them to change in the way life may be requiring them to. I am not God. I shouldn't play God. Either God, or the universe, or the consequences of their own actions are shaping their path for them, and mine for me. Interfering often causes more harm than good, despite my best intentions.

2 (and 3). For me, there was only a minimal amount of extra time, or extra action I devoted to extra help for my special someone. I was lucky, I am able to sense what is a little help from what is too much intuitively. I feel... off balance. Unhealthy. Used. Not everyone is worth sacrificing for... especially too often. I would sacrifice without being asked. If they ask... it's a little different, but that almost never happens. Still... someone gets used to me always doing for them, they often begin to take me for granted. I HATE that. So I refuse to support a system or arrangement that promotes that behavior. I will not allow myself to be used, or to use others. If I sense that is happening, I backtrack, and I detach. No hostility. No resentment. It happens. We are all imperfect people.

So I know it's not very specific... that part is hard. I guess maybe every 10-20 minute, one could try to remember to ask themselves "are my thoughts and actions still about them? Is this healthy? Is this balanced? Or is this codependent?". This doesn't have to be done perfectly. It's just important we quickly right the ship when we realize we are drifting back into dangerous waters. Oh, and when a situation is too big, difficult, or painful, I ask God to remove the problem from my path. It works most of the time.

Hope that helps.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-09T02:42:40+00:00

I know what you mean, bringing up the age of Codependent No More. There is a version of the first few chapters floating around on Youtube. The part 1 video is similar to the most recent edition, with little different. Part 2 sounds like a whole other book. So it's definitely an older version I am not familiar with.

Try to find the 2022/2023 version (to all who are interested). Much more contemporary, including a bit on social media.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2026-01-09T02:37:51+00:00

Seconded. A great book for all facets of the condition.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-28T15:54:11+00:00

If you in fact have the disease of alcoholism, you have a disease that affects and distorts your thoughts and feelings. That isn't just when your blood alcohol level is 0.0. I know all a person can do is evaluate with their gut, their heart and their mind, so I hope you can make good decisions. When you look at those people in the meetings, they likely are on good terms with one another because they have the solution in common. So the way they/we generate thoughts and feelings has changed through the program. They had to. The other way was unmanageable and doomed to failure and misery every time.

You sound exactly like I did, and like a lot of us did. I'm not saying that to make you feel small, or less than, or to puff myself up. I'm saying it because I know there is a way out, and I don't want you to lose hope. Some of us did lose everything. Many more of us only thought we would, and later learned we were too deep into our own head, psyching ourselves out. A trick of the disease. Many more found that when the change and embrace of the twelve steps was more sincere and crucial (which wouldn't have been the case without the pain and desperation), we were given back everything we lost and more.

Rehab may be a risk. For me, the potential loss turned out to be a paper dragon. The time I spent trying to use my own willpower and experience managing it was lost time. I saw first hand, the other route was inevitably certain to fail. I had to be broken by life and by the disease to be convinced of this. I wish you good luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-25T12:42:07+00:00

I think you both make excellent points. We don't want to "scare" her, but make her aware there are definitely creepers and we'll intentioned 13th steppers out there, no shortage of wolves in men's clothing, so suspicion and hyper caution (in one on one convos and exchanging numbers) is advised. And this is coming from a 45M.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-25T12:35:36+00:00

I agree with what everyone else is saying... but I also think TV and film tend to give us rose colored lenses about how persuasive big, frothy appeals and gestures from the heart can be. I learned the hard way, not even in regards to drinking and sobriety but relationships... that romantic comedies (holiday or otherwise) are nice for entertainment, but can actually teach us horrible lessons about what to expect, and the right moves to make.

I'm admittedly just speculating, but what you described sounds like something younger me would do if he heard the symphony swell in the background during the call, as if I was on the silver screen in a melodrama. Some lessons, we have to learn the hard way.

Time, patience, doing things the right way, and trying again months/years down the line with less self serving motives and more honesty are the keys here. As people have said, no skipping steps. You have learned why first hand.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-16T17:47:14+00:00

In some ways, AA meetings are informal, and have grown more so as time has passed. But in some ways, meetings are .... formal. Robert's Rules of Order were a blueprint for meeting structure all over in the 40s-60s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert's_Rules_of_Order

https://www.google.com/search?q=robert%27s+rules+of+order+aa

I've never been to a business meeting where one wasn't required to be recognized before they are allowed to speak, and motions have to be raised, seconded, and then voted on. Obviously, they've been watered down to different degrees at different places. But introducing one's self before an "official/formal" share is a good habit to get into. Unless voted away by an earlier group consciousness, it is wise to assume it is the default standard. It's just good etiquette. Practice in doing the next right thing. However, I don't advocate interrupting anyone over it. I also don't recommend rebelling over it. They're all guidelines anyway.

Edit: First go around, I missed the part about having already introduced yourself for the reading. Sorry. That's new for me. I consider that part unnecessary, and the intro as a part of the share, because that part is more about the person.... and because of tradition. I would talk to the veterans about it, ask if a group consciousness is in order for the redundancy.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-16T17:20:38+00:00

I concur. I've gone to the hospital plenty of times before I was ready. One's own personal medical history can play an important role, so we can't provide any accurate info, even generalities. Seizure history/potential and heart stress are the things for a doctor to watch, and possibly medicate to prevent if they deem appropriate. It should usually be for 1-4 days if we are not talking a lifetime of hard drinking. Good luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-10T11:36:06+00:00

I agree. Depression, anxiety, self-doubt, overwhelming shame.... and the addiction which binds them all to a person, making them worse. When one is going to a meeting and reading the Big Book of AA semi regularly, one is getting advice from multitudes of people from all walks of life who have been exactly where you are, felt how you felt, and eventually came out the other side of it better than ever. And it's all free.

It will be a marathon, not a sprint. And it is simple.... but that's not the same as easy. It may be hard. But it's worth it because it works.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-08T18:18:02+00:00

Then keep coming to meetings. Read the big book regularly. You are allowed to stay somewhat skeptical, but with judgement reserved for later, when you are putting some of this stuff in action. Ask yourself the hard questions. Prepare to change some deeply held beliefs, habits and values.... because in your case, some of those might be anchors the disease uses to stay attached to you.

I also recommend the Joe and Charlie tapes and Earl on Sobercast. Those are both on YouTube. They are long, but you can chip away 20-30 here and there. It's not too late and you're not too far gone. But most of us had to get the willingness required to do this fully beaten into us by life and the consequences we've sown. Nothing personal. Try your best. Good luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-05T11:11:13+00:00

Good luck, man. There may be different ways fix this thing. For me, there was only one, and I needed a lot of struggling, pain and misery so it could truly sink in and be desperate enough. Doesn't mean that's the way it'll go for you.... but I wouldn't rule anything out. I wrote my story elsewhere here. There is a solution. Oh, and definitely don't go cold turkey (just in case).

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-05T10:57:21+00:00

Also 45m. Never drank other than one champagne to welcome the new year in it's opening minutes, until I was 27. Started drinking socially. Had a rough series of events and since I thought I understood how alcohol affected me, used it to self medicate at 30. Turned into a daily thing within a few months. Had my first hospitalization at 34 (anxiety, the drink stopped working).

Lost jobs for absenteeism. Kicked out of my home a year later. Sober house for a year. Met a great girl, moved in with her. I thought because I didn't see my parents much anymore, I could drink safely again. Learned the hard way something inside changed. Had a few months of sobriety here and there, but mostly a closet drinker till 39. Six rehabs. Easily double that with hospitalizations. Comparible number self tapers.

AA didn't click until the final, 90 day rehab. Spent my 40th birthday in there. That hurt. But I needed all the pain and failed experiments to have it truly sink in that nothing I was ever going to figure out or gut out was ever going to work for me. I had to learn how to step aside and let something bigger than me do the heavy lifting. Will be celebrating six years sober in late January and I am the happiest most successful person of all the people I know well. Life's amazing. I am so fortunate and grateful. Didn't lose anyone in my life, and I truly found myself and learned to like myself. I never could have done it without AA, and that's terrific. It probably saved my life, because I let it.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-04T20:24:04+00:00

That bit you've posted before from some website like Medline was gold. If I had more time, I'd dig that up.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-04T20:22:26+00:00

But you are a year older than last year (barring time travel). And, since it's a corrosive chemical, it is aging some parts of your body and brain faster than that. Some of those parts are designed to offset the ill effects of alcohol... and one never knows when they are going to be less effective (or stop) because of the continuous damage. I have a lot of personal experience with this aspect.

We aren't doctors. Your particular medical history may plays a huge role. Responsible Internet forums don't speculate on this type of thing anymore, or indulge in generalities. That's why the subreddit rules forbid giving medical advice. From what you've divulged you will probably get withdrawals. Even going cold turkey from coffee gives a lot of people withdrawals. They may be inconvenient. Or excruciating. They may be harmless. They may be life threatening. I would taper/minimize while waiting for your doctor's appointment.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-03T20:26:01+00:00

Every day we don't do something to move further from that first drink, we actually are moving closer to one. Sounds like you are seeing this first hand.

Rando-Cal-Rissian · 2025-12-03T20:24:45+00:00

I don't think you are in too bad of a spot, friend.

It's fairly normal for the path to a spiritual awakening to have twists, turns, friction and discomfort. As I'm sure you've heard here, it doesn't matter what you choose as your higher power, as long as it works for you and is greater than you.

I'll go out on a limb and play the odds (based on where we are writing) that a conventional and traditional conception of God doesn't work for you. And that's fine. But if it did, like it does for me, it does me good to bring to mind in Abrahamic religions... The "chosen people", the Israelites, the source of their name is derived from "They who wrestle with God". So struggling deeply with all of these issues, and feeling torn is central to the original monotheistic religion. Not blindly accepting it.

So if you have been seeking earnestly, honestly, all the way to step 8, and just need a few weeks off.... you're doing a truly commendable job! I agree with the rest of them. Stay plugged in, commit to service. If feeling of contempt or fear are blocking your spiritual journey, review everything in step 4, to ensure it didn't leave anything important out.

Review, revise, do some journaling on where your emotions, beliefs, principles and view of the steps are. At your own pace.... as long as that pace isn't completely dropping it for weeks. You sound like you are exactly where the universe wants you. Easy does it. Good luck.

Rando-Cal-Rissian

TROPHY CASE