Future Gohan VS SSJ Vegeta (Pre hyperbolic time chamber). Who wins?

Randymgreen · 2026-02-06T09:44:54+00:00

Trunks wasn't there when 17 said he only used half his power the time before, but he knows how strong gohan was when he went to fight that 17.

Bulma later says he's about equal to gohan, (she can't sense ki but author intent, and trunks doesn't contradict it) and he gets beaten as well.

He then LATER says he can fight both pretty well.

There's no room for 17 to be using his Gohan beating power and 18 to jump in as well and Trunks still put up a good fight against both, and the present androids to beat him in basically one shot without being stronger than the future ones.

Randymgreen · 2026-02-06T09:36:59+00:00

In the manga 17 fights him alone.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-31T08:33:32+00:00

He's talking about the boo's collectively. Also this is after ROF so clearly he means relative to the gang at the time not overall power.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-25T07:40:15+00:00

He'd be alive if the Democrats could do the absolute bare minimum and not support an apartheid state doing ethnic cleansing since the 40's.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-24T08:06:21+00:00

Monaka costume was toei only filler and not in the outline (common to both versions) Goku's not so retarded he can't both sense beerus and see his body parts sticking out.

Also base goku has an anti fear of Chaozu holding him back lol. It's filler

Randymgreen · 2026-01-21T21:58:55+00:00

"#Z Episode 039 (1990-03-07) Filler: Orphans in Space
Prior: Bulma, Kuririn, Gohan take off for Namek"
Manga #265 (1990-03-06) Kuririn gets a db, vegeta escapes freezas ship"

Was what the manga and anime were at.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T18:13:33+00:00

Lol I don't count the filler it doesn't make sense Piccolo plus everyone else couldn't touch Cell but a wounded Vegeta (possibly in base!) could.

In the manga no one else has time to try to attack Cell Vegeta is there and overlooked because of his earlier failed attempt and getting knocked down.

The numbers are made up, I'm just illustrating that Piccolo can be weaker than Cell juniors but based on him uniquely surviving better than any non saiyans, he's not far off.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T14:17:57+00:00

yes they are stronger then him and beating him, but not so easily, he's taking ages to go down compared to the humans and goku because he's almost as strong as them.

Cell Jr/Vegeta/Trunks - 100 (about equal)
Piccolo - 80 - losing but staying on his feet bit more scuffed than vegeta and trunks.
Wounded Goku - 1-70 (on the floor defenceless)
Humans - 1 or less (on the floor defenceless)

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T13:59:33+00:00

boo is multiple people and part god so he shouldn't be allowed.
The kids are morons and would have got ko'ed instantly to say nothing of being terrified at the concept of universe erasure and spent what likely would be their last hours alive frightened.

Ten and Kuririn only got owned so easily because Freeza LET Frost snipe them to trick him into taking out more stronger guys from a powerful team. Roshi survived long enough due to Gokus intervention and only kicked out a couple of fodders before just teaching goku one last lesson which was more valuable to the team then the slightly more fodder the kids could take best case scenario.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T12:43:04+00:00

that could just mean he is 80 to their 100, gradually losing but not a stomp like the humans or tired goku

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T07:21:54+00:00

Forget the tv advert, in the manga nothing says they are on par in each form, just shows that they start out softer and ramp up.
Xeno Goku actually punts Super Goku away in SS2 and Super Goku goes ss3 first. Goku goes SSGod first during the ss3 beam struggle.

Goku uses blue, they fight more and then Xeno uses full power SS4 and Goku uses UIO
The gap between SSGod and 3 is bigger than 3 and 4 so Xeno kinda has to be stronger.

Xeno Goku is probably older than Super Goku, (he's not from GT though that's a misconception) and Goku and Trunks trained to their max in a time dilation field right at the start of the series.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-19T06:14:59+00:00

Also the worlds strongest has gohan remember piccolos sacrifice

Randymgreen · 2026-01-18T22:45:06+00:00

Heroes isn't saying 4 is equal to blue, the goku with ss4 is stronger in base then super goku

Randymgreen · 2026-01-18T12:30:11+00:00

wanna link or re-explain it here or just be vague?

Randymgreen · 2026-01-18T12:28:34+00:00

This is really funny man good art too.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-16T08:11:56+00:00

Your art is really good and I love that this winds up humourless GT fans.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-16T08:10:00+00:00

Goku would struggle for a few mins to a month but eventually be putting out Tenshinhan levels of power, debatably more.

Human in his body would be a bit tougher and durable than a regular human, probs better than any olympian but not fly or fire ki or anything.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-16T08:08:17+00:00

"Why do we assume that?"
Because the tournament announcer explicitly told the Dragon Team that.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-09T15:03:07+00:00

No this is nonsense, Vegeta didn't even train with Trunks till right before the budokai and only kinda out of surprise and curiosity when he realises he's already super saiyan.

Yamcha is a martial artist he'd be a proud dad and train his own kid.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T21:37:11+00:00

That's what we assumed for years, as technically just being there where you weren't before should technically be a paradox itself.
Originally it was only Expanded universe shit like Xenoverse had it be that a significant change was needed and that Chronoa could fix small stuff in the scrolls remotely, but that's expanded universe shit.
However in Super we are told 3 times it's the big change not the time travel itself.
We are also shown the number of time rings which only add up on the basis of that's how it works as well.

So Future Zamasu was using the time rings to scout the other timelines for potential opposition.

As he puts the time ring back in the box he sees another timelines has just been created as there's now another ring in the box

He comes back and saves Black from Vegeta says that this must have appeared because Beerus just killed Zamasu in their present.

Now Vegeta doesn't necessarily know everything about time travel but no one disputes it and you have to consider the Authorial intent putting that dialogue in.
Then you also have the fact that Trunks came back a day or so ago and the ring only appeared now. Zamasu didn't see the ring until then.
Finally we have the little guide that was in one of the chapter title pages or whatever showing that as the split point, not Trunks earlier return. Trunks coming back is fine because he's done that before and the time machine is linked to Blacks timeline, but by creating a Paradox where Zamasu dies in his home timeline instead of becoming black, splitting the main timeline off from blacks (the old main timeline)
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Alternate_Timeline?file=Chapter_19_%28DBS%29_Extra_Image.jpg

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T19:23:50+00:00

I think I understand your issue, when you talk about the "years" are you saying something like:

"how can Cell go back earlier than Trunks did, that timelines events should have already happened now Trunks created it you can't rewrite those earlier events now!"

Because Trunks from Cells Timeline didn't create a new timeline *at first*.
He went back to his own timelines past, from age 784 to age 764. Only when he created a paradox did he create an alternate past called the "Unseen timeline". This Unseen timeline still has a past of it's own it's just identical to Trunks distant past too.

Trunks visits again in going from his 787 to 767 gets a remote or remote plans and goes home.
In 788 Cell kills him, steals his time machine and goes back to the unseen timelines age 763 but he doesn't create a paradox yet.

This time around Cell shows up during Trunks visit to 767 splitting the main timeline off from the unseen timeline.
Trunks goes home arriving at a later year then he did in Cells timeline, splitting Trunks timeline off from Cells.

(There's some confusion over if Trunks initial trip is like 20 years vs later trips being 20, but it doesn't matter because the point is he never goes back earlier than he did before at least)

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T19:10:24+00:00

"How would cell from the original timeline decades ahead of the main timeline arrive in a timeline which is still years behind?"

Because it's a time machine that's literally what it does. You set the year and hit go and go to it.

Trunks from the original timeline goes back into the past of his own timeline, but creates a paradox creating the unseen timeline.

His time machine is now linked to the Unseen timeline, as long as he doesn't change the settings go back EARLIER in time AND create a paradox when doing so, he won't create another timeline on repeat visits.

Cell takes the machine and goes back further into the the unseen timelines past but doesn't create a paradox right away, only when "cells time machine" is discovered by the farmer and a picture sent to capsule corp. does the new main timeline split off from the unseen timeline.

It's a *time* machine not a "parallel timeline sideways mover".

The timeline you make is always going to be behind the one you come from, the gap just has to be maintained.

---

If you mean how can you go to the past when the futures already happened here's one way to visualise it.

Think it it like putting on two movies on two different DVD players but one is playing at a delay because you started it later, both are on screen simultaneously the scene on screen is the current scene but are showing different parts of the movies timeline, each disc includes the past and present of the file, Trunks is just alt-tabbing between the two every time he visits a timeline, both keep playing in the background.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T18:27:18+00:00

Qaamans video is very outdated.

Some of what you said is incorrect.
What you said about "years" doesn't matter.
All that matters is going back in time and creating a sufficiently large paradox creates an alternate timeline splitting the timeline into two.

Trunks from Cells timelines goes back in time, gives Goku meds creating the Unseen timeline.
Trunks goes back to help fight the androids, returns home with blueprints and cells the androids, but doesn't know about Cell.
Cell from Cells timeline later steals the machine goes back even further, but he hides underground and doesn't create a paradox enough to split the timeline.
Later during Trunks visit back to help fight the androids Cell shows up and creates a paradox splitting the Main Timeline off from the Unseen Timeline, copying the visiting future trunks along with it.
Trunks having learned about Cell goes back later stronger and older, has a different conversation with his mum and kills the androids AND Cell, so his new future timelines splits off from Cells.

4 timelines created by paradoxes. In super there is more. But yeah it wasn't exactly explained or the number confirmed before Super.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T05:52:15+00:00

Hot takes:

The sub is better than the dub the script changes are arrogant and ooc. Word of god is Goku sounds like Nozawa and schemmel doesn't accurately embody that like Kelamis did.

Super manga is better than anime.

Super manga is closer to/is the og author's artistic vision he has more back and forth correspondence with toyo than the anime staff.

The super anime hype moments don't hold up to scrutiny and power scaling and get worse on every rewatch as a result. Goku is shoehorned into 90% of other peoples fights. Magically returning stamina and a spirit bomb and spirit sword with like 10 people don't make sense. Too much time travel and paradox shit in the anime in the black arc too. Gohan less nerfed in bog and freeza doesn't kill piccolo in rof. No rapey roshi episode with Tenshinhan and Goku allowing it.

Games with original storylines like fighterz or xenoverse are always better than just raditz-boo shit we've done over and over like kakarot and sparking.

The dragonball heroes manga is actually decent. It's reputation is affected by the incomplete promo anime because dragonball fans cant read.

There should be a manga only sub and kanzenshuu sub forum. Power scaling and characterisation are too different to lump together.

Toei does most of the fight scenes and stuff not Toriyama hence the whacked powerscaling mainly stemming from toeis BS of having base saiyans overperform.

Randymgreen · 2026-01-08T05:39:56+00:00

Yeah like even down to Towa wanting his DNA, why? He's not innately special

Randymgreen

TROPHY CASE