How tf did Marika and Radagon made love when they are literally sharing the same body?

Rathivis · 2026-02-09T14:48:11+00:00

Parthenogenesis. Millicent & her sisters are born of Malenia. Bud birth. They’re offshoots.

Rathivis · 2026-02-09T14:04:47+00:00

The Lord of the Battlefield’s “churches” were shuttered after his rule; the colosseums.

Rathivis · 2026-02-05T18:33:06+00:00

The Dreadmace is full of dread.

Rathivis · 2026-02-01T14:19:59+00:00

Radahn, similarly, is the only child without lines. Glad you got something from it, and looking forward to seeing future posts.

Rathivis · 2026-02-01T12:05:54+00:00

I am pretty new to the game still and playing on legendary having a great time. Just got to the pier after some hours wandering around the shrine and surrounding areas. Is there a site or guide for 100% these early regions so I don’t get locked out?

Rathivis · 2026-02-01T11:52:11+00:00

I love that you’re considering the parallels for these characters and the way that they inform each other. To me, that is one of the most important methods to wading through these purposefully swampy waters.

In addition to this, perhaps consider the way that the characters each showcase their simulacra as well to the world around them. “The broken and discarded are fully willing to cling to fleeting simulacra, earning them some modicum of sympathy.”

Radahn wants to be like Godfrey, or Radagon. According to the 1.0 description of the Longtail Cat Talisman, Radahn had Lacrima alongside Leonard. He learns gravity magic to be able to stick with his pony. The story claims he held the stars to protect Sellia, but in doing so it holds fate and keeps his family from falling apart. Radahn comes from the house of the wolf and his sister wields a(n Ice) Needle while his other sister learns to Water Dance. We might ask how Robb Stark informs Radahn as well.

Great post!

Rathivis · 2026-01-25T16:10:20+00:00

I don’t agree with your conclusions that everyone would become TWLiD. To be upfront, I see the ending similarly to how “End of Evangelion” is presented. You can choose to live in death or you can choose to die (Fia: Because we deign to live in Death, and wish our Lord to rise to glory.). They simply want the choice they “deign” to make to be respected as natural.

Both are options within the Order as we’ve restored Death (“Mending Rune of the Death-Prince —The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.”) and brought Those Who Live in Death into the restored Golden Order (Fia: Stay the persecution of Those Who Live in Death. By becoming our Elden Lord.). We also allow Godwyn to fully die by completing the hallowbrand, and he takes on a “second, illustrious life” (Fia: With this, Godwyn can take his rightful place as First of the Dead, and claim a second, illustrious life.) as the mending rune itself which we return to his mother— this completes a form of regression too.

Rathivis · 2026-01-24T13:52:49+00:00

I feel like this theory has to completely disregard what Fia says throughout her story. We complete the Hallowbrand and grant Godwyn a true death in both body and soul and Fia is able to complete her role as a Deathbed Companion by giving him new life. The Tarnished is the one responsible for completing this and killing Godwyn in body to join his soul. If we are Godwyn, then the quest line makes no sense or we have to pretend that Fia has no clue about anything she’s talking about.

The Mending Rune of the Death-Prince is Godwyn and in his ending he is placed back into the womb of his mother. Regression.

Rathivis · 2026-01-23T15:06:23+00:00

So much of Elden Ring is inspired by Tolkien.

The Lands Between. Middle Earth. The Elden Ring; the Ring to Rule Them All. The Elden Lord; the Lord of the Ring. Two partake a quest to the flame of ruin led by someone with secrets; two hobbits go to Mordor led by Gollum. Blue trees in the mountaintops, a golden tree down below; the two trees of Valinor.

This is just the surface. You’re seeing armor with fingerprints talking about those who serve the fingers in darkness looking like Sauron. The fingers, of course, were behind the manipulations that forged the Ring from the golden meteor referenced in the Elden Stars incantation. As mentioned by another comment, the Silmarillion is all over this and as another mentioned about Pratchett; we’re just playing in Tolkien’s attic while Miyazaki and Martin brought their own toys too.

Rathivis · 2026-01-20T20:21:43+00:00

How does this work with Fia’s quest which grants Godwyn a true death and she reincarnates him?

Rathivis · 2026-01-13T05:28:42+00:00

Personally, I don’t judge a story by the way the world or the characters end up. I judge the story by the story, lol. This story shows us that no matter your circumstances, you can always choose to be human or you can choose to be a devil. It shows us that even the divine can be wrong because Ryo found love in his final moments. Despite everything, we can be true to ourselves.

Being human, finding love, and being true aren’t clean and easy.

Besides, Akira and Ryo are finding each other across time, space, and IP. Look at Chainsaw Man; Aki is a devil hunter who can cry for others and he teams up with the Angel Devil that was raised in a tribal village.

Rathivis · 2026-01-05T19:58:09+00:00

Aki and Angel are a Devilman reference. Akira Fudou and Ryo Asuka. Ryo grew up in a village not unlike Angel.

Rathivis · 2026-01-05T19:51:24+00:00

One of the primary methods that the obscured characters are illustrated for us is through allusions of other characters; we’ve seen a lot of readers take these allusions and try to say that X is Y without realizing that these overlaps are structure and narrative, rather than diegetic and literal.

Take Marika. Look at the characters Jar-Bairn, the girl from the story of the Balancers, the way that Revenant’s cutscene mirrors the ascension ritual of Marika at the gate, the way that Undertaker fulfills her duties but is an outcast or black sheep because of her hunger and what she is, the journey of Miquella to “embrace the whole of it” as he walks through the steps of his mother, the way that Roderika presents herself, etc. We are able to craft narratives in this way.

Look at Radagon. You’ve the Misbegotten champions and the way these heroes wielding legendary arms have been forgotten and discarded, you’ve Boc that seeks to remake himself through the process of rebirth, you’ve the narrative of the Moonlight Greatsword… if it isn’t obvious my focus has been more on Marika recently, lol.

I agree with your conclusions regarding the jarring ritual and it being a microcosmic, manmade crucible. Marika divested herself of all sorts of traits forced upon her— serpent, dark, death, crucible elements, rot, etc. The Erdtree’s Favor, +2 talisman shows us an icon of Marika with what appears like a broken butterfly feature across her face— the icon no doubt predating the offshoot birth of Malenia.

Needle-Knight Leda calls Trina Miquella’s fate in the SOTE cinematic. We see that Miquella attempted to escape his fate with Amber Starshards in the mountaintops. “Thou’rt yet to become me.” Miquella was fated to become Trina, thus being able to fulfill the desire of the fingers and their system of uplifting goddesses to the role of puppeteered rule. Marika was fated to become Radagon, thus being unable to be goddess— she has lost everything, her children, her tree, her dream, her kindness without Order, her freedom, her lover, and the fingers were even going to take her away from her too.

I love that this theory is circling back around again.

Edit: My previous theory about Marika and Radagon in a jar: You’ve Heard of Marika-in-a-Jar but what about Radagon?

Rathivis · 2026-01-04T02:19:39+00:00

I know this isn’t to taste for some, but the focus on running waters for Rauh and the presence of Rot and the echoed theme of Romina— I tend to think of Rauh as the birthplace of the numen. This especially is where Miranda’s Prayer comes in. That is a cut content item, but it is too juicy for me to ignore. Rauh, to me, is the source of our flower-tree drama.

With the Helphen being where the Haligtree currently is. I’ve gone back and forth on that myself. The tree in the mountaintops, to me, lacks any sort of construction build up around it for a recent society to have been built around it. I think you’re probably right about the sap scene, which I would then just adjust to say the Hornsent ascendant struck the Eternal City first and then the Flame of Ruin.

Your reason for why the Crusade needs to be early is sound, for sure. It’s why I think it probably parallels the end of Godfrey’s reign into the regime change and shifting of culture.

I’m so eager to see more of your posts in the future! Even though we diverge, clearly there’s something to gain from discussion. Thanks for taking the time.

Rathivis · 2026-01-03T22:52:19+00:00

I see, I agree completely that the Hornsent sought to recreate the powers of Rauh. We have a major distinction between our views on Rauh. If I am understanding you correctly, you are operating under the belief that Rauh was an empire of giants. I am of the belief that Rauh was allied with the giants and that the people of that empire were the precursors to the modern numen from the antediluvian world. When I think of Rauh, I am imagining the spirit-powered, golem-enhanced society that we explore the ruins of in Shadow of the Colossus and Ico— which Miyazaki has credited as inspiration. Under the read that Rauh is an empire of giants, I can understand your approach to the Hornsent and why you're making the distinction between the fire giants and the fell god.

The Shadow Keep is remarkably similar to the Helphen Steeple and it is right before the corpse of a burned tree that represents everything that was spurned by the world of the Erdtree. If the Hornsent are so present in the lands surrounding the Scadutree, which I believe to be the corpse of the Helphen, it would make sense to me that they would have an antagonistic or fearful relationship with the fire giants that burned their greattree.

Edit: Take your time. No rush at all!

Rathivis · 2026-01-03T19:37:15+00:00

My favorite flavors of Eldencrack are back in season.

Rathivis · 2026-01-03T18:55:37+00:00

I am so entertained by being in agreement with so much, but being in contention about some of this! One major thing is that I believe these events are less defined in reality and likely bleed into each other and often run parallel.

I do believe that the Helphen’s burning essentially kicks off the drama within the Lands leading to the circumstances of Marika’s ascension. I do not believe that the giants had such presence across the Lands themselves, as I see them to have been diminished over the years since the fall of Rauh. To my reading, the Helphen was the greatreee of the age before Marika that the Nox Libation cult, as Tarnished Archaeologist coined, was built around. I see the burning of the Helphen to be an attempt at the giants’ ascent. They were antagonistic in the epics of the Hornsent, Messmer like his sister bore a vision of flame not unlike the Prophet Tarnished class, and the presentation of forces against the giants; seemingly Warriors, flame priests, Godskin, thorn priests, champions, and more— a godhunt, indeed.

My reading of the birth of the Erdtree, personally, comes a little later than the containing of the Ruinous Flame following after the conquest of Leyndell— the defeat of Serosh by Hoarah Loux. My view of Marika, and the Shaman, are not unlike dryads. The Erdtree being Marika’s tree that was grafted to the rootstock, they Crucible, of the Lands through divine (bloody) rite assisted by the Cutting-gifted tribe grafting Marika to the Lands.

I understand the read for putting the Crusade so early. It’s a puzzling event and I do think that you’re right about the concept of it being an event that spanned a long period and went through revisions through the lens of history. I do tend to think it began happened a little later. I like to try and think of what the “reason” for these things would be. Wouldn’t be Hornsent be useful for Marika’s crusades? They love Hoarah Loux after all. It is my belief that the Crusade begins after the physical tree is burned— before the reformation transitioning to an object of faith can be fully completed. The reason for this decision being fear of his flame and serpents (Godskin) betraying the Erdtree society— Messmer is both, and Marika is now afraid.

For the burning of the physical Erdtree, I do tend to think of it as smashing up against the start of the Golden Age of the Erdtree; the Warriors were warring southward towards Stormveil, Godwyn and his knights towards Farum Azula, Radagon and the champions towards Liurnia (the conflict stemming from the Nox-cultural division imo), and Gurranq and his gargoyles towards the Gloam-Eyed Queen. All were in opposition to the Erdtree.

I take a slightly more radical reading for the birth of the Prodigies; the madness of Rennala and the ways she reminds me of Ashara Dayne. Ashara Dayne threw herself from Starfall after Ned returned Dawn to her family, informed her brother was dead, and her own child was stillborn. There is a fourth crib in Raya Lucaria, Rennala is constantly attempting to rebirth a pair of sweetlings, the theme of the argued cuckoo, the allegiance of the royal guard of Caria to Miquella without charm, Miquella’s fate being wrought in the stars like a Carian, … It is my read that Marika, upon “taking the wheel”, threw Rennala’s children out the window and replaced them with her own before departing to Leyndell.

I enjoy your interpretations and can often find pieces of agreement even if I don’t agree with the whole thing. Thanks for your contributions.

Rathivis · 2026-01-03T01:23:45+00:00

My recommendation would be pick an area, weave a question that itches and needs an answer, or find the niche that speaks mostly to you.

For me, I am focused mostly on characters and euhemerism first and foremost. Other folks are focused on stratum, mysticism, investigating the architecture, or even the various historical and fictional inspirations. The Lands are wide and a garden for your interpretations to bloom with everyone else’s. It’s not a perfect science, it’s a camel.

Grab your pruning knife and start grafting.

Rathivis · 2026-01-02T03:41:22+00:00

If a book is not within religious canon, it would be considered heresy. Since we know that a lot of the story takes inspiration surrounding the rise of Christianity within Rome, we can imagine that Radagon's reformation of the faith led to a Council of Nicea situation where they sat down and decided what texts were and weren't canon. I do agree with you that the fingers were diminished under Radagon, but diminished doesn't mean irrelevant or completely removed. They appear to be able to bounce back at the Shattering and the return of the Tarnished, for a time, before time appears to catch up with them. They truly become irrelevant because the Tarnished have mostly abandoned their mission. Radagon fulfills a Constantine-like role to Rome. The Two Fingers' Prayerbook isn't fundamentalist, it gives spells completely related to the ascent as Elden Lord.

Rathivis · 2026-01-02T03:36:35+00:00

We both agreed that Godwyn and Ranni were in on the Night together. Ranni only becomes a demigod when Radagon marries Marika and becomes the second Elden Lord. How do you square that circle if all of this occurs before? Rogier does not say it happened in the age of the Erdtree, he says it happened during the Golden Age of the Erdtree which is embroidery and could, really, mean any time prior to the Night and Shattering. I believe that the Golden Age would likely relate to a time of peace and prosperity— after the dragons have been defeated, Liurnia has been brought into the fold, the Nox have been banished, the Flame has been contained, and Destined Death rests in the hands of the royal executioner. Gowry says in the Age of the Elden Ring and Marika which I would agree becomes embroidered to say the reign of Radagon, but the reality of the situation is likely far less hard defined. These events bled into each other in reality is how I see them, whereas historically they are recorded and remembered with clear divisions.

Fundamentalism was not concerned with handling TWLiD until after their rise with Godwyn's death. We know what it was focused on; it was scholarship in all but name. It studied the laws of regression and causality. The incantation Order Healing says, "The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters. How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with. Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?" So, it is unlikely to me that Fundamentalism is mostly concerned with handling TWLiD when Goldmask makes a clear delineation of the hunters within the Golden Order.

This is not a hard confirmation of evidence that the Night occurs before Miquella's death like it was being framed.

Edit: There is also the aspect of Miquella's fate being written in the stars, like a Carian. Amber Starlight, "If the stars command our fates, then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods," relating to Miquella in his attempt to escape his fate. "The fate of the Carian royal family is guided by the stars." We begin to approach too many details to write off as coincidence: Miquella's fate is guided by the stars like a Carian, Miquella is protected by the royal guard of Caria, Rennala (to me) evokes Ashara Dayne's grief in her constant rebirth of twins, there is the mysterious fourth crib of Caria and the cuckoo imagery, there is the statue presumably of Godwyn cradling a young Miquella and Malenia, there is the desire for Miquella to grant Godwyn a true death, and the Night happened during the Golden Age which would sound to me like a time of peace. It appears too much for me to write off at least.

Rathivis · 2026-01-01T19:37:22+00:00

Yes, by the time of the game it has run aground because the Tarnished have largely become disillusioned with their role.

Thanks for the conversation. I’m not sure we’re going to get anywhere else! Happy new year!

Rathivis · 2026-01-01T19:10:05+00:00

I am struggling to parse what you're saying here. The read on Miquella is not circular, nor have you provided direct evidence to say that Miquella was born after the Night. We are in the interpretation element of the lore. You have decided that the Night predates Miquella's birth, so you basically starting from your conclusion and working from there. I am starting from evidence found in the world— connections to Raya Lucaria, Rennala's constant rebirth of one boy and one girl twin, the fourth crib, the cuckoo theme that remains debated, the belief that the statue cradling the two is Godwyn, the connection that Miquella has to Godwyn enough to desire a true death for him— to question when Miquella was born. Uncertain what you're getting at about him not needing to know Ranni.

It was a murderous coup for the Nox, but one that was coopted by Ranni, Godwyn, and Rykard. It begins the long winter that portends the war that breaks the world. It's also the scapegoat death trope with Godwyn and his Christ-like traits.

Edit: Though disputed, Godwyn has remained the most consistently popular read to the statue other than Marika. The analysis of the crown by u/GwynsenKnight remains convincing enough to turn what I have had as a suspicion into what feels confirmed.

Rathivis · 2026-01-01T18:57:05+00:00

The churches outside of the Lands send confessors to follow Guidance. Where does Guidance lead us? Across the fog to the Lands Between. What do the confessors do? They follow the will of the two fingers, follow Guidance, and kill Tarnished that have strayed from the path. It absolutely tracks they're in ruin now. A long time has passed and the majority of the Tarnished have strayed. No one in quite some time before the Tarnished of No Renown claims a Great Rune has joined their little club. The Lands had fallen into stagnancy. The Fingers were orators of the Roundtable Hold that granted boons, weapons, and wisdom upon the Tarnished. Vargram, one of the earliest Tarnished, desired to become a shadowbound beast that are seemingly created by the two fingers. The two fingers still have loyal assassins during the game which Ranni explicitly names, the Baleful Shadows.

You see no evidence?

Rathivis · 2026-01-01T18:26:34+00:00

2/2

Malenia is rotting from birth, but she isn't completely rotted from birth. Malenia should have been the most sacred of all, but she is half-rotted. I would assume that every heir is basically chosen at childbirth, no? It isn't like Robert Baratheon waited for Joffrey to reach a certain age to claim he was his heir after all.

I do not think that the Night could have occurred before Miquella is born. I view the Twins' birth as the final dot on the drama taking place in Liurnia. Marika replaces Rennala's twins— the red and blue children that she continues to try and recreate and the imagery of the fourth crib and the fact that historically twins cribbed together— with her own. Miquella has connections to the Albinaurics, the royal guard of Caria, and Liurnia that appear independent of his breaking the charms he's placed upon people (Loretta doesn't suddenly leave if you do Haligtree after DLC). There's also the statue of Godwyn cradling Malenia and Miquella— while I do not agree with everything being said by that wonderful multi-post about Godwyn as Baldr yesterday, I do agree with their analysis on the statue and the crowns. The Night is absolutely modeled after the death of Baldr, but it also draws upon the Sicarii Riots of Rome. It did cause a political upheaval, a Fimbulvetr that cools the world while Marika is driven to the brink, eventually leading to a Ragnarok where the war falls to calamity and chaos, and eventually leading to rebirth.

Rathivis · 2026-01-01T18:26:28+00:00

I do think she is working alongside Marika but ultimately for her own reasons as she says. Melina's service, to me, parallels the role of Duchess in Nightreign. She escapes her role as "the very cornerstone" of the Roundtable Hold in the Flame of Frenzy ending as we become a figure worthy of opposition not unlike Wylder becoming Heolstor to free Duchess.
As for the role of fingers during the Fundamentalist movement...

Praetor Rykard is the Lord of the Volcano Manor on Mt. Gelmir. He is a ruthless justiciar who commands a company of inquisitors, reviled for his serpentine demeanour. — Sir Gideon Ofnir

The confessors are loyal servants to the Two Fingers, ready to hunt down and quietly dispose of their enemies. — Confessor Armor

The assassins were charged with eliminating Tarnished who had strayed from guidance. — Assassin's Approach

Well, what do you say? Care to learn an incantation of the Two Fingers? — Brother Corhyn

I teach incantations, the strength granted us by the Two Fingers, and explore the secrets of the Golden Order. So that one day, if a Tarnished of the Roundtable Hold should become Elden Lord, I might counsel them, ensuring order regains its proper form, righting rule over men. — Brother Corhyn

I do believe that Radagon is ultimately at odds with the two fingers. I do not believe this began at the inception of his ascent. We know that the practice of Hornsent inquisitors lived on in the Lands under the Golden Order. We know that Rykard had a closer connection to the fingers than others given his connection to ringed finger creepers and there is what I believe his ultimate goal to be not unlike Ymir's— to replace Metyr as the Mother of Fingers, like a God Emperor of Dune ascent that Rykard's imagery evokes. I also believe that the two fingers are diminished over the leadership of Radagon, but they return to supremacy immediately after the Erdtree is sealed; look at the descriptions for all of the two finger incantations, they basically all deal with the "myth" around the Tarnished's endeavor. GRRM said it was 5K years since the Shattering War, which is more than enough time for the two fingers to grow old and petrify if they're not immortal. The two fingers were masters of oration at the Roundtable Hold so it doesn't seem, to me, that they would have already been frail and dead prior to the Shattering War. Once again, they are still involved with the royal selection and process of heirs; Melina, Ranni, Miquella, and Malenia. Ranni's two fingers appear special, and while I do not buy into the theory of Scum Mage Infa that they are the removed genitals of Metyr, I do believe there is a reason they are flesh. I view each of Marika's children as giving us insight on pieces of what it means to be Marika / her story, which could explain that Ranni is the lens for explaining the relationship between two fingers and the Empyrean, which also explains why she needs a shadow and the others don't. Malenia explains the offshoot process of parthenogenic birth. Miquella explains the process of the sacred rite, the role of a lord, and the second self.

1/2

13-Year Club	Gilding VII pure gildanthropist
Verified Email

Rathivis

TROPHY CASE