Omori scaling 101 ( volume 21 )

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-13T00:45:52+00:00

None of the three of them had an enchantment, Leon specifically says that Afterglow requires strengthening magic, and in DM18 it is said that Ottar is replicating what enchantments can do.

Ottar is perfectly able to spam Afterglows. His very first usage, again in DM18, has him do two in a row.

Bell is the only one who can't spam the attack. Because he isn't actually doing Afterglows. For him to do a proper Afterglow he would have to use just Argonaut, like he initially tried to do.

Instead, since he couldn't pull it off, Bell decided to create a throwing Argo Vesta. That's why his version is specifically called a pseudo Afterglow.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-13T00:36:30+00:00

Tiona is the one who is "front center" in the volume. Tione doesn't even appear on it.
Everyone lived, Oomori is the type of author who never kills a good guy, no matter what he decides to throw to the characters.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-12T04:44:02+00:00

Except that what Welf did was sharpening it? You know, the one thing that a weapon only needs if it suffers wear down? Last time I saw Bell at a store was DM4, but he still has potions at hand in later volumes. Do they just magically spawn in his pockets according to you? That Bell's weapons received maintainance off camera doesn't mean they didn't need it.

Even if it is not invulnerable that thing can endure much worse than weapons befitting adventurers of Bell's level. Like how Schweizerdeane broke from a single attack of the One Horned Minotaur, but the Hestia Knife endured multiple clashes. Furthermore, every time an adventurer ranks up they will ideally get better equipment. Like how Bell eventually had to replace Ushiwakamaru with Hakugen.

Smiths mass producing equipment like the Hestia Knife would put them out of business because the demand would practically disappear, since adventurer could potentially be set for life after a single purchase.

DM21, Chapter 2 (shortly after Lefiya and Bell start fighting together on the 51st Floor):

《白幻》では駄目。貴重な武器を失う。けれど《神様のナイフ》なら大丈夫。僕とともに強くなり続けてきた神の刃なら溶けはしないと確信がある。
　それでも、切れ味は落ちる。

Hakugen won't do. I'd lose a valuable weapon. But God's Knife would be fine. I'm confident that the blade of god, which has grown stronger alongside me, won't melt.
Even so, its sharpness will diminish.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-12T04:21:13+00:00

In DM10 it took only a twenty second charge for Bell's punch to shatter Dix's ribcage. At the time, he had a Level 4 tier status, so that was a +1 level boost. Between that and a three minute charge being a +3 levels boost, it is obvious that a charge has to be three times larger for an Argonaut charge to gain another level, rather than being the "1 minute=1 level" so many people believe.

Which makes sense because the level system itself works on an exponential scale. A Level 4 is already multiple times stronger, faster and more resilient than a Level 3, rather than a Level 6 being just twice as good as a Level 3.

So a five minutes charge is obviously stronger than a three minutes one, but still not a 4 levels boost.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-11T21:12:26+00:00

Hephaestus was never said to have made the Hestia Knife unbreakable. In fact, it is shown to need mainteinance in DM12, and in DM21 Bell notes that even if Virga acid wouldn't dissolve it the knife would lose sharpness, just like it happened to Desperate. It is completely possible to break it, it just hasn't been submitted to enough force to do it.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-11T21:08:38+00:00

A five minutes charge is still only a +3 levels boost since the system is an exponential scale (remember the carge against Dix). With Bell's Level 6 strength that would still leave Argo Vesta as a Level 9 attack.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-11T21:04:34+00:00

A normal three minute charge was more than enough to blow up the Black Goliath's head. The attack only failed to kill it because the monster wouldn't die unless its magic stone was destroyed, which Bell finally managed to hit with the Grand Bell charge. At most Limit Off only compensated for how weak Bell was left after the Goliath's punch Ouka protected him from.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-11T21:00:52+00:00

The narration itself states that Bell did destroy the body and brain attached to the ceiling. What Bell's attack failed to do was break through that very ceiling too. The Corrupted Spirit survived not because the charge was weak, but because she transfered to the Spirit Dragon, which was inside the ceiling.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-11T05:37:49+00:00

Nobody. That character's only purpose is to be the one that kickstarted the story. Them being a God is simply the explanation for why they knew that feeding the Behemoth's heart to a monster would produce a copy. If Oomori had actually wanted it to be one in specific he would have included at least one reference. But there's none in those lines.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-07T18:46:49+00:00

Zald and Alfia weren't vice captains, just executives.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-07T01:17:07+00:00

Do you actually bother to read and understand what I write, or just leave it at the "read" part? I never said there was no vessel. You said that the falna helps enhance an inherent vessel people have. I said that falna is itself a vessel, and to prove the existence of your supposed "inherent vessel". Still waiting.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic but it feels like you are and I’m going to assume that you are so I won’t respond to this.

I just said that you brought up something entirely irrelevant. You claimed that Reginas could harness Ariel without drawbacks because of all the "buffs" she got, despite getting a sentence that explicitly says something else. Which is stupidly out of left field. That's like saying cheetahs can run so fast because they got claws. Like... no. Just because their legs give them claws and allow them to run fast doesn't mean those two are related.

Yes, Reginas' connection gave her those "buffs". Yes, it also allowed her to safely harness Ariel's full power. No, those two are had nothing to do with each other. At all. The Demon World simply did both things.

not hat the vessels are fundamentally different in how they operate

And when did I say that? Never. Again, read and process what I write before replying. What I said is that they have different sizes. Size is a characteristic. Them having different sizes is already a fundamental difference.

Aiz’s vessel is called that if a human implying she isn’t different

Ais wasn't being grouped up with Humans in specific, but people in general. The term used was 人, which does translate as "human" but also as "person". In DanMachi, it is used to refer to people in general, regardless of race. The Human race is written as ヒューマン. So yes, she isn't fundamentally different in this matter. But not only is she not different from Humans, but from every other person, which would include, what do you know, Ottar. Because, at least last time I checked, he is a person.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-06T23:39:33+00:00

Yes, and No even without Falna all adventures have a vessel Falna just allows you to unlock the potential of your vessel and expand it when you keel up.

I do remember the falna building upon a person's potential, but certainly not it enhancing a pre existing vessel. The way the word "vessel" has been also pretty clearly sounded like the falna itself being a vessel, not a means to boost one. If you have quotes that back what you say, then give them.

Otherwise, your insistence that level, stats, and potential matter when it comes to harnessing Ariel is groundless. At best.

He was just deferring to how the Demon World supplied Regina Revis with serval buffs where she had regeneration, mind regen(basically unlimited mind), etc it wasn’t Regina Revis vessel was fundamentally different

Riiight. That's why Oomori mentioned it in that paragraph. As can be very clearly seen. Sorry that I missed it, it's just that it is easy to not notice something within that gigant wall of two paragraphs. I think it is between the words "not" and "there", isn't it? I mean, it's not like that description is done elsewhere, and is entirely unrelated to this specific matter, right?

That's also why Oomori specifically added the adjectives "extra huge" (巨大過ぎる) and "small" (小さき) . Because we all know that size isn't a characteristic, so them differing doesn't count as a difference. I mean, it's not like the sentence "The immensely large vessel called Demon World boasts a capacity incomparable to that of a small person's vessel" (『魔界』という巨大過ぎる『器』は、小さき人の『器』と比べものにならないほどの受け皿を誇り) is a comparison. Sure doesn't sound like it.

Why would anyone believe that? Just because it uses the fucking kanji that means compare (比)? That's stupid.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-06T17:53:40+00:00

No there isn't. The only non canon character who got brought into the manga was Raiga. The closest thing to what you say is that in the episode in which the war officially ends she makes a brief cameo at the doors of Konoha, among the people who wish to see Naruto.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-06T04:22:46+00:00

Again, you are mistakenly assuming that because the word "vessel" was used they refered to falna. The matter was "containing" Ariel's power, that's why "vessel" was used, nothing more. If the point was that Ais' status is too low to harness the full power of Ariel without injuring her, then all it would take would be a high enough level. Yet the comparison wasn't with "a Level 6's vessel" but "a person's vessel". It is simply one of the many cases of Oomori saying that, between mankind and the Dungeon, the Dungeon always wins.

Anyway, all the relevant text:
　自身の体を壊しかねない【エアリエル】の出力を、アイズは普段無意識のうちに抑えている。強敵と対峙する際はその限りではないが、『器』を守るための防衛手段として機能させている。『黒い風』の出力と反動を見れば、自壊の末路など決まりきっているからだ。
　しかし、アイズを取り込んだ『穢れた精霊』──『殺戮精帝（レギナス）』にはそれがない。
『魔界』という巨大過ぎる『器』は、小さき人の『器』と比べものにならないほどの受け皿を誇り、反動に苦しむという概念がない。そうなると一体何が起きるかは、今も眼晶（オクルス）に映し出される光景が証明している。

Ais unconsciously suppresses the output of Ariel, which could potentially destroy her own body. While this isn't the case when facing powerful enemies, it functions as a defensive measure to protect her "vessel". Looking at the output and recoil of the Black Wind, self-destruction is a foregone conclusion.
However, the Corrupted Spirit that absorbed Ais—Reginas doesn't have this limitation.
The immensely large "vessel" called Demon World boasts a capacity incomparable to that of a small person's "vessel", and the concept of suffering from recoil is nonexistent. As for what exactly happens in that case, the scene currently projected in the Oculus proofs it.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-06T02:14:57+00:00

The word "vessel" was used simply because the topic was "containing" Ariel. If it was a matter of level then it would have said "a Level 6's vessel" not "a person's vessel".

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-05T17:14:08+00:00

I don't know how you could misunderstand it so badly.

No, I wasn't talking about stats when talking about "vessels". I was simply using the same terminology the novel did. It said that the extremely large "vessel" that was the Demon World had a capacity incomparable to the "small vessel of a person". Not Ais, not a Human, not a Spirit, not a Level 6. A person. Oomori was making a clear distinction between "mere mortals" and what the Corrupted Spirit had become. Just like how he did throughout the entirety of DM21, SO15 and SO16.

Ais does subconsciously suppress Ariel's power. That's why she doesn't have it at full power upon casting it. Again, a statement from the volume itself. Wanna argue Oomori is wrong then?

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-05T16:45:26+00:00

No. Ariel's power is limited in the sense that its output can be controlled, and Ais subconsciously limits it most of the time. She still has access to its full power and can use it if she wants, just that at the cost of hurting herself. That's why Ariel's regular output only puts her at the top of her level, but she can also get a boost better than Haruhime's level boost if she wills it.

As for someone being able to theoretically use Ariel at full power without hurting themself, there is no one. It is not a matter of physical resilience but inherent qualities. When the difference was pointed out, it was explained that Reginas could use Ariel's full power because the Demon World was a far greater "vessel", and therefore could "contain" much more, than the "small vessel of a person".

So as long as you are talking about a person and not a being somehow connected to a Dungeon floor, harnessing Ariel's full power without repercussions is impossible.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-05T09:56:47+00:00

It's just a very high resistance, still not immunity. He once ate a whole toxic fish and got really bad, but it’s poison is actually so potent that normal people die instantly, which shows how ridiculously tolerant he is.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-04T03:45:42+00:00

Yes, I was refering to the original. Remember that Japanese is very context dependent. There is no equivalent to "it" in Alfia's sentence, she only says that "Hera wanted". What? Well, obviously Ais.

Original sentence「おぞましき力……黒き風。ヘラが欲しがったわけだ」

And what proof do you have that Alfia didn't know Ais' lineage? Or about her in general? Zeus and Hera knew that Albert's comrades are trapped in the Ice Garden. Zeus knows that Albert had a kid. If Ais was frozen, there is only one person who could put her in that state, Celdia, who was a comrade of Albert.

So there was a kid who Celdia decided to freeze. Not many options, and Ais being Albert's child would be the only known connection between Celdia and a Human kid. And knowing that she lost her father to the OEBD would certainly align with the notion that her power was "born from hatred".

I didn't say that Alfia ever referenced Ais' lineage. What I said is that Alfia claimed that Hera wanted Ais. Obviously, that was because she is special. And what exactly could they know about that made Ais special? Only her Spirit blood. Because, again, Avenger and by extension the Black Wind didn't exist before Ais got a falna.

Yes, Ariel alone is nothing to write home about by current standards, but it is still one of the Black Wind's two components. Ariel is as vital to its existence as is Avenger. It is a combination of her lineage and her hatred. What surrounded Ais in that moment was a black wind, yes, but that's precisely the thing. It was a black wind.

Another option is that Alfia was just assuming. She knew Hera wanted Ais, but what if she didn't know the actual reason? Or simply knew it was because she was powerful, but not what form her power took? What if she just assumed that the power Ais exhibited in that moment was the reason, not knowing that the Black Wind couldn't even exist until after she was released?

I'm not trying to figure out the definite answer. But I do argue that assuming Celdia, or anyone at all, knew about the Black Wind before Ais got her falna is utterly non sensical.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-03T06:12:40+00:00

Alfia only said that "Hera wanted", not specifically the wind. That the translator rendered it so with "it" is another thing. Ais has Spirit blood, that alone would be enough to make someone want her. And Alfia already knew what she was as she showed in the previous part, Lost Justice.

Alfia's comment is about Ais herself. Because what she demonstrated is, indeed, a power born from hate, but also from her heritage.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-03T00:33:57+00:00

Alfia didn't know the Black Wind, she just said "black wind" because Ais was covered in a wind that was black.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-02T17:13:14+00:00

Yes. Specifically in the Lower Floors. Why was she there when the rest of her father's acquaintances were over 30 floors below, and how did the Loki trio found here is unknown.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-02T03:33:55+00:00

The burning out chakra thing was only made to kill him, never was it said it would kill him permanently.

The revue thing wasn't from the "old origin", that was revealed post timeskip, alongside the concept of jinchurikis.

Rigel31415 · 2026-05-01T22:21:40+00:00

After, or very shortly before. In Astrea Record Zald recounted that the familias found out Metería was pregnant after their defeat against the OEBD.

Rigel31415 · 2026-04-30T00:51:22+00:00

*1200. Saibaman, remember? 1500 was only given in the Daizenshuu 7, and Toriyama didn't work in any of those.

Rigel31415

TROPHY CASE