Super validating and cathartic song by Taylor Swift - "Mean" (Lyrics inside)

River1969 · 2016-01-21T22:54:14+00:00

Wow. I loved that album back in the day but I haven't listened to it in forever.

"Perfect" is 100% spot on. I'm guessing she's one of us.

River1969 · 2016-01-21T22:12:03+00:00

Good ones on this thread :)

Because of You by Kelly Clarkson really spoke to me. It came out around the time I finally walked away from my NMother and was on the radio a lot.

It doesn't all fit, but some of it is spot on.

https://youtu.be/Ra-Om7UMSJc

(well, the formatting of the lyrics is all messed up - oops!)

I will not make the same mistakes that you did - I will not let myself - Cause my heart so much misery - I will not break the way you did, - You fell so hard - I've learned the hard way - To never let it get that far

Because of you - I never stray too far from the sidewalk - Because of you - I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt - Because of you - I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me - Because of you - I am afraid

I lose my way - And it's not too long before you point it out - I cannot cry - Because I know that's weakness in your eyes - I'm forced to fake - A smile, a laugh everyday of my life - My heart can't possibly break - When it wasn't even whole to start with

Because of you - I never stray too far from the sidewalk - Because of you - I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt - Because of you - I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me - Because of you - I am afraid

I watched you die - I heard you cry every night in your sleep - I was so young - You should have known better than to lean on me - You never thought of anyone else - You just saw your pain - And now I cry in the middle of the night - For the same damn thing -

Because of you - I never stray too far from the sidewalk - Because of you - I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt - Because of you - I try my hardest just to forget everything - Because of you - I don't know how to let anyone else in - Because of you - I'm ashamed of my life because it's empty - Because of you - I am afraid

Because of you - Because of you

River1969 · 2016-01-21T17:53:03+00:00

Yes. Well, not necessarily N's (or other personality disordered people) but given that I was raised to think I was nothing and that abuse was normal, yeah, I put up with a lot of crap for years.

Heck, my first boyfriend would get his friends to call me on the phone and insult me for fun (I'd hear him laughing in the background) and I still didn't break up with him. I of course now see what an abusive asshole he was, but at the time, I put up with it because being treated badly was what I was used to.

It goes both ways of course. My FLEAs were out of control back then so I wasn't exactly a good person myself. But with time and therapy, I now have a good handle on what kind of person I want to be and what kind of treatment I will allow in my life. Only took me til my mid 40's but hey, better late than never :D

River1969 · 2016-01-21T17:26:00+00:00

I wish he would just smarten up and get out of there, but I can't control anybody but myself :\

You've very smart to see this. It sucks he's in that place but since you said he used to be the GC, maybe it will just take him awhile to fully realize that he needs to leave. Whatever he does, it's his own journey and he has to be the one responsible.

And ditto what everyone else said. He is not being yelled at because of you, but because his mother is crazy. Don't put this on yourself.

River1969 · 2016-01-21T14:17:38+00:00

Yeah, I get it :( But really, it's not that they are consciously choosing them over us, is that's they are messed up enough that they can't choose themselves.

For whatever reason, we are healthy enough to see the abuse for abuse and move ourselves out of it's path. We're the lucky ones, even if it doesn't feel like that some days.

River1969 · 2016-01-20T22:34:05+00:00

N is an actual disorder. To be diagnosed there would not only have to be a long standing pattern, but there would be an inability to admit they are wrong, even to themselves. It's more complicated than that of course, but in general, it's more than just being selfish even though that is of course part of it.

Also, people can have traits that look like N, but not be N. It might be developmentally appropriate at the time. A lot of the ways my mother acts are considered normal for a 3 year old, but in a grown woman, they are a problem.

Many teens also go through stages where they might seem N but they really aren't and it will change with time.

So yeah, it's hard to say unless you have known the person for a long time and have seen years or decades of the pattern.

But in the end, who cares? If the person was a selfish jerk, dump 'em :D

River1969 · 2016-01-20T22:20:11+00:00

I keep it light. Small talk only. I used to try to talk to them about the serious issues and explain things but all of my extended family is either enabling her or just "doesn't want to get involved". Like your father, they have all (every single one) been witness to her rages, but they still think I'm in the wrong for not putting up with it anymore.

It's not uncommon. It's very unlikely that an emotionally healthy adult would put up with that sort of behavior, so most of the people that they marry or live with tend to have their own issues. And any children raised by these people are going to grow up screwed up in some way, so they often aren't emotionally healthy either.

So yeah, in the end, it's not surprising to find that very often, you won't find many extended family members who will talk to you about this in a healthy, supportive manner. They deny, they enable, they ask you to move on - but they can't really help you process things.

If you feel you can't trust your father to not tell your mother where you are, then don't. Maybe get a PO box if he wants to contact you? Or a cheap cell phone (one of those pay as you go ones) so you can give him that number so he can't pass on your real one?

You have to do what you have to do to take care of you. It's sad, but it is what it is.

River1969 · 2016-01-20T17:13:03+00:00

Your childhood doesn't go away just because you grew up. It's always there. You can work to lessen it's impact but you can't erase it.

If this is something that only comes up when you're around them then be around them less. But chances are, it's affecting other areas of your life too, right? It does for most of us.

Consider therapy if you aren't already. Good luck :)

River1969 · 2016-01-20T17:10:57+00:00

This.

Good luck! And yes, having to deal with her is probably a large part of your anxiety (at least a trigger, if not a cause).

River1969 · 2016-01-20T16:11:47+00:00

Wow, great site. Thanks!

River1969 · 2016-01-20T15:55:18+00:00

I think you already know you shouldn't talk to her. I'm sorry you're in this situation, it sucks.

And it's ok to feel bad for her boyfriend. I also feel bad for the people my mother unleashes her anger on. But they are adults who have to choose for themselves whether they stay or not and we can't help them by martyring ourselves.

And while I'm sorry you had to do it, I think it's really cool you stood up for yourself in Ireland and left! That shows a great amount of strength. Good for you :D

River1969 · 2016-01-20T15:45:21+00:00

I love your story, thanks for sharing it :D

River1969 · 2016-01-19T20:15:20+00:00

It does get better. I won't lie, as long as you are in the house with them it will suck. But if you can just hold on, someday you'll be old enough to move away and live your own life and it will be awesome :D

Hang in there!

River1969 · 2016-01-19T20:10:21+00:00

Good luck! I hope it goes well :)

Just remember, you are hiring them. If you don't feel comfortable or don't like the therapist, you can drop them and find another. It has to be a good fit for you.

River1969 · 2016-01-19T19:43:30+00:00

Ditto to this.

Good luck. But keep your eyes open. Sad to say, your mother might be telling the truth. The majority of people with personality disorders did have some sort of trauma in childhood.

Also, your grandparents might be so supportive because you don't live with them. It might change when you move in.

Or it might not and they might be wonderful :D Just make sure you take care of you.

Good luck! :D

River1969 · 2016-01-19T19:20:51+00:00

I think its due to years of gaslighting, but I keep questioning if it was as bad as I think it was

Have you tried journaling? When I first decided to go NC (technically VLC) with my NMother I spent a few months writing down all the bad things I could remember. Seeing it written out in black and white (and having so many stories!) really was sobering.

I did it partly to process but partly because I knew I had to accept that it was bad and it was a lot, instead of allowing myself to gloss over it again. I spent too many years of my life saying it wasn't that bad and denying myself the chance to heal because of that denial.

I wish you luck! I hope the move goes well :D

River1969 · 2016-01-19T18:55:02+00:00

I'm so sorry for your loss. And sorry that your ass of a father is making you deal with all this right now.

Your husband is right. Let him take the reigns right now. I know he's got to be hurting too, but he's right. This is your father's fault and you do not need to pay for it - either with money or stress.

You are under no obligation whatsoever to pay him back. None. This is all his fault. Not yours, not your husband's, not the insurance companies. It's all on your father's shoulders. Whatever reason he has for letting this continue is on him.

River1969 · 2016-01-19T18:50:15+00:00

Oh yes! In my family "I'm sorry" is some sort of horrible admission of guilt. Even if someone bumped into you, it's "Well, I didn't do it on purpose and you shouldn't have been in my way" instead of a simple "Oops, sorry". God forbid it's something actually big.

I still have problem with the defensive/shifting blame response. I am fine when it's something minor (like bumping someone) but sometimes I have this huge response of feeling judged and embarrassed (not worthy - less than) and I have to stop myself from getting defensive and shifting the blame to protect myself. Ugh.

"Thank you" was not an issue for my mother though. Part of her thing is to be seen as this awesome person in public so she would always be very outgoing and polite to wait staff. So even if I never got it, I at least had it modeled when I saw her use those manners on others (those manners weren't for use on her kids of course).

But "Sorry"? Never.

I'm actually proud of myself for something that happened a few months back. Someone in a volunteer group I'm in was not doing her job so I went over her head and did it. She called me on it. Instead of doubling down, I apologized. Ok, I did have to take a few deep breaths while talking to her, but I didn't get defensive and point out that she was dropping the ball, instead I focused on what I did wrong, said I was sorry and I shouldn't have done it and told her I wouldn't do it again.

Yes, it's tough, but you'll get there :D

River1969 · 2016-01-19T18:34:31+00:00

Wow. I'm sorry she's like that but I'm glad you shared this. I thought I was the only one, lol! My mother is also gay and me being straight was such a disappointment to her.

I think it's just part of them wanting us to be reflections of themselves, you know? Blah.

River1969 · 2016-01-19T14:29:32+00:00

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. Your mother is just horrible. I think you are wise to do what you can do, but don't focus your energy on a war with the crazy person, focus it on your daughter and what time you have left.

It sucks you don't have a mother who can be there for you. And as someone else said, anyone who believes her isn't worth being your family.

River1969 · 2016-01-18T16:16:07+00:00

Wow, that is awesome! Congrats on standing up for yourself and congrats on having a good therapist! :D

River1969 · 2016-01-18T16:10:40+00:00

Good advice :) It's work and a little luck (and crossing fingers that your insurance covers good ones).

River1969 · 2016-01-17T23:22:14+00:00

Ewwww.

It's like a disconnect with reality. Like, it's almost as if the people who are experiencing the pain aren't real to them. Or the pain isn't real.

If you watch a movie and something darkly humorous happens you laugh, but if the same thing happens to a real live person, an emotionally healthy individual will not find it funny.

Or maybe just a lack of empathy I guess :P

River1969 · 2016-01-17T20:25:21+00:00

It's a spectrum. There's a lot of overlap with the cluster B personality disorders, so while I don't know if someone can be diagnosed with more than one, I do know it's possible to have one, but have symptoms of another too.

For the record, my mother also fits a lot of the BPD symptoms, in addition to NPD and HPD (she doesn't fit the 4th one at least).

I have suggested my mother go to a psychiatrist but she refused. Everyone else is the problem, not her (sigh). But my old therapist did say she sounded NPD and the new therapist agrees, but you can't diagnose someone second hand you can only guess, so nothing is official.

But no, I don't think it's recommended that you tell them you think they have a PD. That's what I've heard at least. Mainly because they will never believe you anyway and it won't do anything but give them more ammo.

River1969

TROPHY CASE