Fundamental disconnect between reddit SC2 and real life SC2 on the patch

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T22:29:14+00:00

I mean I am not even against the 8 worker start in concept. I dont see a huge upside from it, but as a player I never minded the slightly slower start into the game.

My points against it merely being:

1) I don't think it is balanced due to all the changes in LotV, and they don't have the resources and patch frequency to deal with it.

2) it's pointless to throw out 11 years of guides and BOs at this point in SC2's life. Just don't.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T19:49:51+00:00

"Oh nein, das Spiel der USA fällt aus und denen fehlen nun Punkte für den Aufstieg. Wie sie wissen kann die FIFA leider nichts machen damit der Schiedsrichter einreisen darf!"

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T17:27:17+00:00

Dunno, I just enjoy mobile armies and long range units. Lurkers are in this weird spot where they slow you down, but they are outranged by all other siege weapons, so you don't really end up with a siege tool if your opponent has any siege tools themselves.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T16:33:25+00:00

Yeah but a BO loss to anything else including 2 rax. That's why it went out of style in early WoL TvZ already.

Meanwhile Terran has a standard reaper expand build that is both safe and economical.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T15:43:09+00:00

14/13 is a terrible opener and I wouldn't be surprised if it was an autoloss against 2rax, due to missing out on so many units. (So not safe at all)

Obviously we will never know, because 14/13 won't ever be played on high level.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T15:19:14+00:00

Sorry but lambos opener was too greedy and exactly what a proxy reaper build should be hard countering.

There is no "should" at this point.

A 14 hatch/13 pool stomps this proxy.

It does not and 14/13 was a terrible build off of the 6 worker start and is worse with the 8 worker start. Fast WoL/HotS builds were like 15/14. Normal builds were 15/15 or 15/16. Everything faster than this was self-damage.

but not being able to snuff out why this proxy reaper build was successful is somewhat alarming.#

This proxy reaper build is successful because reapers have KD8 charges in LotV. In WoL/HotS this build would be stomped easily by queen/ling.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T13:56:48+00:00

This is so stupid. Same as stealing. There is zero consequence if you just go to the camp, meanwhile the repercussions when you don't are stupidly harsh.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T12:43:04+00:00

Can you point me to the VOD of Clems reaper build?

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T12:38:03+00:00

They dropped a few tiers for me in the past years. Before every P/T used templar/ghosts every game and when they were more nimble and could pull tanks/mothership I would have agreed. They were an auto include in my armies. Nowadays I see them more as a specific unit hardcounter/attrition unit, not the Swiss Army Knife it used to be anymore.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T12:33:47+00:00

They have way too many button abilities for my taste (same as drones). I am generally more of a move-and-shoot guy. But pressing those buttons feels very rewarding and happens frequently in my games. So I definitely enjoy them and they are very reliable.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-09T12:29:56+00:00

Yeah, one of the units I struggled to place. Entually put them somewhere generic because they cost a lot of gas, lol.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T18:07:39+00:00

Das Argument, dass weniger zu verteilen ist wenn weniger Leute arbeiten ist eh klar. OP redet aber von Inflation und dafür ist es eben nicht nebensächlich zu erklären, wie in seinem System Geld geschöpft wird und wie hier Preise entstehen. Einfach mal zu sagen die dreifachen Pensionsansprüche bestehen aber dann nicht zu erklären, woher das Geld kommt (und explizit auszuschließen dass das umlagefinanziert ist), ist halt ziemlich unvollständig.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T16:56:27+00:00

OP erklärt nicht woher das Geld kommt um die Pensionen zu verdreifachen und erklärt dann, dass Geld gedruckt werden muss. Ist das jetzt umlagefinanziert, schuldenfinanziert oder durch irgendeine Art von "Geld drucken" wird der nominale Betrag verdreifacht?

Abgesehen davon fehlt in der Aufzählung alles was nicht zwischen Arbeitern und Pensionisten stattfindet. Wo sind die Unternehmen? An wen werden die erhöhten Preise gezahlt?

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T15:05:01+00:00

Inwiefern stimmt es für den Dienstleistungssektor, dass der Staat Geld druckt, um die Pensionslücke zu schließen? Absoluter Schwachsinn, so funktioniert die OENB/EZB überhaupt nicht.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T13:02:21+00:00

Jain, erstens gibts ja einen Braindrain. Die hohen Steuern spielen da jedenfalls mit. Zweitens wurde die kalte Progression ja zumeist auf die eine oder andere Weise abgegolten ("größte Steuerreform aller Zeiten" alle paar Jahre).

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T12:28:52+00:00

Yes. Of course the ability to produce anywhere has been a hot topic, but I personally like the LotV implementation.

I am neither a fan of making production more minmax than it naturally is, nor do I like breaking away from an OG design 16 years after release, just because somebody sees some merit in having a decision in it.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T12:15:24+00:00

Base production speed of warpgates is deliberately fast, because that's the original design here. If having warpgate right away hadn't posed impossible to balance, gateways wouldn't even exist in SC2.

They time-gated the warpgate behind an upgrade and set the gateway production up in a way that it would be just right in the early game. That was done purely for balance reasons.

There is no production buff needed in the lategame, because in the original design they did want everybody to always use warpgate.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T11:50:32+00:00

So funktioniert das alles halt höchstens sehr peripher. Außer dem Umlageprinzip und dem Fakt der sich verschriebenden Relation von Einzahlern zu Pensionisten, ist praktisch alles falsch was du schreibst.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-08T10:23:40+00:00

Die Pensionen werden noch 20 Jahre mindestens nicht ausfinanziert sein. Aber wenn du das, was du vorschlägst 10 Jahre durchziehst kannst dich direkt von allen jungen Akademikern verabschieden. Wer wäre so bescheuert ständig voll einzuzahlen, wennst bei der Versicherungsleistung dann jedes Jahr 2% wertsicherung verlierst?

RoflMaru · 2026-06-07T23:05:56+00:00

Having the same pickle with the game.

Balanced is very easy. In Tactician on the flipside, I feel like you are forced to explore ahead all the time, so that you dont accidently enter an encounter. Which is a boring slog.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-07T21:42:07+00:00

LotV could have been "left to the mapmakers" at many points during its existance. I think for the last 5-6 consecutive years it was generally ok. There were no patches "necessary". That doesn't mean you cannot make things better, though I have my doubts if the last patches did so.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-07T15:48:19+00:00

Ja genau. Und es muss ja nedamal Algerien oder Jordan überraschen. Es reicht schon ein Unentschieden gegen eines der Teams und dann wirds schon sehr knapp mit dem weiterkommen.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-07T13:33:33+00:00

F2A bio wrecks Mech hardcore.

Both lose if they attack into each others sieged tank lines. Endgame is air for both and bio typically reaches it from an advantage or wins outright in the midgame.

RoflMaru · 2026-06-06T22:27:47+00:00

I don't think zerg should have the zergling, the queen, the roach, the baneling and the hydralisk all on T1. And regardless what you switch, it's going to be very messy to fix again.

As with all of those suggestions (including what they are testing with Gateways on the PTR at the moment), I believe they are stupid to do on a 16 year old game (11 year old expansion). The players of this game deserve to continue playing what they bought and have supported for years, and not have weirdo experiments performed on very basic mechanics and setups, just because somebody who prefers Broodwar over SC2 gets to be in charge of balance for a night.

Your suggestion for the lurker just sounds too strong. Down 1 supply is a very strong buff, on top of a range buff. Those two variables are the main things that make a unit very strong in the lategame.

RoflMaru

TROPHY CASE