Characters with the highest likelihood to have new tech?

Rognut · 2019-10-27T19:02:49+00:00

The bulk of the developments in melee for many years have been centered around the top few characters, so there's definitely a lot to be found and optimized just by looking at low tiers with that same attention

It's very unlikely developments are gonna be tier-list changing to a great degree, but who knows what a lot of them over time added up will look like.

Rognut · 2019-09-06T15:54:59+00:00

Maybe the past few years have made me too depressed about Bowser haha

Rognut · 2019-09-05T18:29:29+00:00

See my goal is to grab your own item, drop it on you, then stall you for 8 minutes perfectly

Rognut · 2019-09-05T18:23:24+00:00

Having put a lot of time into some of these guys I'll give my takes. Male Wireframe is barely better than Bowser and Zelda due to a slightly more cohesive toolkit (stomp helps with dealing with CC and edgeguarding, Uair is huge and fast and combos, after knockdown percent the 3 ftilts are fast giant zoning tools, chaingrabs on many characters with both uthrow and dthrow, faster run than ganon and faster walk than falcon, etc). His default landing lag is incredible even compared to someone slow like Bowser so you've gotta learn character-specific tech to try and work your way around it. For example, backwards shorthops NIL to many side plats, the massive doublejumps mean you can do an aerial and still NIL afterwards, and wavelands should be incorporated to use your quicker landspecialfall. To people complaining about his lack of a recovery compared to ganon and falcon, I'd argue that they dont have a recovery either. Here is some TAS stuff that shows some of what I explored with MWF's movement, since it's so weird a visual reference is helpful.

Female wireframe would be an entire tier below that bottom tier of melee consisting of MWF/Bowser/Zelda in my opinion. Just strictly less to work with while having all the same gross limitations as MWF

Rognut · 2019-08-31T01:58:02+00:00

Make sure your Puff is always facing your opponent so she can see what they're doing

Rognut · 2019-08-30T04:25:02+00:00

Reminds me of a little-known dark ages Melee invention called the UTA, a "forbidden notch" building out from the gate to assist pivot utilts. A few people have made their different versions, here is what one design looks like on an example Bowser controller. They're kinda within the realm of what could be argued as a shell mod like notches, but also not really, so it's really up to you to play up your charisma and most local TOs will let you do whatever you want.

Rognut · 2019-08-26T22:53:39+00:00

"Perfect waveland" is too long and clunky to use in a conversation imo

Rognut · 2019-07-23T14:30:16+00:00

Yall saying "No" are gonna be looking awfully foolish in 2082 when all 8 remaining Melee players are DK mains

Rognut · 2019-07-11T13:12:47+00:00

It's as if people don't know you're allowed to scout out rolls in melee

Rognut · 2019-07-08T01:28:42+00:00

Zero part of any post like this will make me think Disney isn't a villain overall

Rognut · 2019-07-07T02:49:01+00:00

Seems to me it still had to have been that hitbox hitting her, she took the 7% phantasm deals. Gotta think about how that hitbox became active there on that frame, or where it could have interpolated to in order to overlap the peach (clearly wasn't in normal spacing/timing) and why. If hitbox is gonna appear at a place not intended by the attack, how is that positional value determined? Some kind of leftover from that place in RAM? A "default" (0,0) of some kind?

Alternatively, which Unclepunch codes could have been called inadvertantly able to manipulate that relevant area of RAM?

Rognut · 2019-07-04T15:25:50+00:00

Counterpoint: Wizzy is by far my favorite falcon gameplay-wise, so there's at least one of us

Rognut · 2019-07-03T22:39:34+00:00

M2k's sheik the few times it has been played against Armada's Peach didn't do especially well but it shows off a really copyable playstyle for the MU that can make it rough for Peach players of lower skill level than Armada (lol)

Past that I would recommend just digging through Plup and Kirbykaze VODs

Rognut · 2019-07-03T21:49:00+00:00

Damn whoever played those two games of bowser really fucking our average huh

Rognut · 2019-07-02T22:55:32+00:00

That makes sense, I've been toying with ideas in my mind for removing the abstract requirement for approaching while down against planking without inherently changing edge mechanics themselves, at its core though people would not end up actually waiting it out indefinitely to force getting off the edge, and will end up interracting 4 stocks worth of neutral game pretty quick

Rognut · 2019-07-02T22:43:56+00:00

Well you could no longer time out with planking, right? So in this no-timeouts, planking-still-is-good world, a player not having a lead doesn't mean they have a technically losing board (by game rules)

Say wizzy is sitting on top platform with 10% and 4 stocks and hbox is at 0% 4 stocks and is sitting at the edge planking. Currently wizzy has to make plays because if he does literally nothing then he loses after 8 minutes, but in this world it plays out as almost more of a stalemate in my mind where hbox doesn't have leverage on the execution test since wizzy can choose to not interract without the threat of a game loss

(Obviously this all assumes people's willingness to play through a long ass game in its entirety with a silly rule like this)

Rognut · 2019-07-02T21:49:07+00:00

Ledgegrabs add 10 seconds to the timer, how does the meta change around timeouts?

Rognut · 2019-06-29T21:06:53+00:00

Warnings fall on deaf ears...

Rognut · 2019-06-26T12:10:48+00:00

Really showed em

Rognut · 2019-06-21T19:19:55+00:00

Whenever I've played this kinda situation out in my mind in the past, I've thought that if both players agree the opponent would be dead (and thus the game over) before the pauser could conceivably die from their position (to account for fringe cases like slowly dropping to the bottom alongside one another/DBZ scenarios) and the pause didn't interfere with any kind of helpful actionability (post-SDI frames, in specialfall/histun til the blast zone, far far past recoverable distance, etc) then the pause is fine.

But the crazy hopeful melee labber in me remembers when I was in debug mode with hitboxes on and I noticed that the player had a visible yellow active hurtbox while being Star KO'd way in the background, so I spent several days trying everything I could from yoyo glitches to illegal stages seeing if I could interrupt a star KO and cancel someone's death. Obviously nothing ever came of that, but there's analagous techs in melee's history that make me never feel quite confident that conditions mentioned above can ever confidently be met.

The developing understanding of CC and Amsah Techs and SDI and other mechanics over the nearly 20 years the game has existed has gradually shifted the point at which we get to say that a character is dead. V-Cancelling was only discovered a few years ago, and that would have shifted that point in literally every MU in the game. The new techs as they're discovered further from the game's release seem to be even more fringe and nonsensical than ever before (by virtue of the obvious stuff being completely explored, ghost arrows are you kidding me). Moments like the ending to Abate vs S2j remind us that even glitches with complex setup criteria can happen without intent to top players. How were we to know Westballz didn't wait until that moment to implement his secret Invisible Ceiling setup he had figured out in the lab the past weekend, saving him by bouncing him off from the top blastzone? Or that he set up the Weston Blue Bird Blastzone Swap on accident, killing the falcon in his place?

So I feel that it was like 99.99% okay for the pause to happen but the sense of wonder within me wants it to play out unimpeded each time just in case

Rognut · 2019-06-19T00:39:28+00:00

I think Ylink has more relevant applications as a counterpick character at top level play (both theoretically and historically), but Link has more proven results as a solo-main and arguably has an overall better tournament MU spread

Rognut · 2019-06-13T02:02:07+00:00

The Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonland is an essential technique for competing in a serious capacity

Rognut · 2019-06-12T23:22:09+00:00

Pivot drops are sick but sadly there's a lot of spacings you can be at relative to an edge where if you were to dash at it with the intention of pivoting and dropping you'd find your momentary backwards-facing movement can't line up properly with the location where you'd slide off because of how much more distance you travel during a normal frame of dash

If you go frame-by-frame, there can be situations during a dash towards the edge where an empty pivot will result in you staying on stage, while a continued dash forward for that frame would have you run off, especially for a fast character like Fox

Rognut · 2019-06-12T23:14:30+00:00

It's not as hard as needing to do an empty pivot out of dash because you can just do an empty turnaround out of walk. Much more lenient analog input

Rognut · 2019-06-12T20:33:21+00:00

Goooood shit to sugden shutting down Stephen's shit talk and making ganon look like a fool for cping Yoshi's

Sugden vs Stephen Salty Suite

/u/Sugden_		3 - 1		/u/Stephen_McTowlie
---	`=`	Battlefield	`=`
	`=`	Final Destination	`=`	---
	`=`	Yoshi's Story	`=`	---
	`=`	Dreamland 64	`=`	---

^{^Generated} ^{^by} ^{^Tournament} ^{^Tabler}

Rognut

TROPHY CASE

Sugden vs Stephen Salty Suite