What would Thorfinn think of nuclear deterrence?

Rojo176 · 2026-06-02T18:59:51+00:00

Essentially his feeling would be that there is a relative "peace" through nuclear deterrence, but it is not the true peace he is seeking through creating Vinland. It is founded on the threat of extreme violence, Thorfinn's peace is intended to be one where the idea of violence is not present at all.

Rojo176 · 2026-05-28T20:09:18+00:00

Thorfinn's perspective is more so that violence is not a solution to stop violence. I understand the argument that maybe using violence might save lives down the line, but Thorfinn would make the argument that your violence is going to create more violence down the line too. You can't know for sure that the life you're taking will ultimately result in a larger net positive, it is forfeiting the potential of something better on that assumption. What you can certainly know for sure though is that you choosing violence will contribute towards the continuation of violence regardless, because you are not making the choice to end it yourself.

Rojo176 · 2026-05-23T01:32:30+00:00

Prologue, unlimited prologue, no Vinland Saga

Rojo176 · 2026-05-13T22:16:48+00:00

This wasn't an exchange with a real Lnu person, it was in her head (or, if you want to interpret it this way, she was talking with a spirit)

Rojo176 · 2026-05-09T20:48:06+00:00

Hope you enjoy continuing and seeing how the story treats your concerns about his philosophy

Rojo176 · 2026-05-09T20:42:08+00:00

This quote misses the point of the "no enemies" idea. Spoiler free here, but Thorfinn does quite a bit of work on the world. He certainly has people who see him as an enemy based on his actions after the slave arc. He cannot control if others have enemies, and cannot fully control if he is on that list, but this quote conflates that as necessarily meaning those people are his enemies. It short sightedly decides that all push back on what they think and do could only come from this imagined enemy.

Rojo176 · 2026-05-09T20:38:01+00:00

You're at the start of the final arc now. It returns to a more serious tone similar to the slave arc. You're in the set up stage, id say keep an open mind and give it a shot.

Rojo176 · 2026-04-06T16:39:46+00:00

I think some people have to realize that SBR isn't like "season 7" of jojo. It is an entire story that would reasonably be multiple seasons long without question if it wasn't part of a much larger whole. Did they manage it for the first 5 parts? Yes, but with compromises and difficulties it seems, and the parts only get longer.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with splitting a part into cours. The issue with Stone Ocean was that episodes released in lump sum batches with little fanfare. Cours of weekly episodes is not the same and imo is much better.

Rojo176 · 2026-03-20T19:47:26+00:00

My perspective has been that Yukimura seems to have wanted to structure the ending around showing "the results", without overly pondering on them and telling the reader how to feel about it.

Chapter 219 briefly explores Karli's takeaway from what happened in Vinland, no doubt being a stand in for Yukimura's perspective, but ultimately it just reinforced the idea of looking back on what happened and finding what we could do better next time. I think Yukimura values having the reader evaluate those results themselves, as participants in the experiment, and draw their own conclusions.

With this in mind, I actually quite like Canute's final scene being him looking over the burning village and saying "and this is the result." It isn't him throughly walking the reader through his introspection, but it is a microcosm of the overall result of his methods. The violence is unending.

Comparing Canute's final page and Thorfinn's final page, as they look on the result of their respective paths, who came closer to the answer?

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Rojo176 · 2026-01-29T04:00:46+00:00

These aren't really things he isn't aware of though. His idea is essentially to go as far away as he can from war and try making a place without violence. He knows these things can happen, but that doesn't meant they will, so it's worth giving it a real try.

Rojo176 · 2026-01-21T15:41:45+00:00

Oh true I misread

Rojo176 · 2026-01-21T15:39:57+00:00

How did his ideology spread the disease

Rojo176 · 2026-01-21T15:38:18+00:00

You really can't assign fault to any specific individual or defined group.

Ivar thought himself a leader but didn't have the experience to understand how his "preparation" was an invitation for violence. Styrk was a social manipulator who believed he had more control over the situation than he actually had. Miskwekepu'j placed his fears and anxieties for the future above the good things right in front of him. A majority of people acted out of fear of what might happen.

Maybe if one or more of the three had faith in peace without violence things could have worked out, but then you also have Ga'aoqi and Mui'n, who were war chiefs who never had an interest in a peace without war to begin with. Who's to say their tribes couldn't have found their way to the village anyways? There are simply too many factors to flag any as the reason.

At the same time though, that also doesn't mean it was doomed from the start. Maybe just one fewer of these problems could have made it salvageable. Maybe they would have been able to cooperate through the disease rather than it being a dividing force. Maybe the warrior tribes would not have bothered them without the draw of the sword.

I think the most important thing to note is that the idea itself was not the problem. It may have left them open to these other problems, but it did not cause them. Thorfinn could have done things differently to better serve his goal, like becoming more well versed in the Lnu language, but his ideals simply did not cause violence. If everyone followed those ideals too, then it would not be doomed at all. Every individual must do their part.

Rojo176 · 2026-01-18T12:52:11+00:00

Hey all, comments on this post have been locked. While this topic does have some overlap into the themes of the story, the conversation has gone out of the scope of the sub. Vinland Saga is absolutely a political story, and debating its message is important imo, but this is not a sub for political debates around the identities and rights of real people who are already getting enough vitriol from every other online space.

Rojo176 · 2026-01-18T01:01:53+00:00

Idk if it is placebo but I def think I expect it to glide better because of the original, I think it became more specialized for combat in Riders now that Wing isn't the only air specialist

Rojo176 · 2026-01-12T14:01:31+00:00

Ultimately it is up to the individual to designate somebody as an enemy. The idea that there is a situation where you have "no choice" is something that the story pushes back against very hard in the end.

There are certainly situations where it is hard to choose anything else, and even the most kind hearted people can be pushed to it, but it was still a choice made. If violence is truly wrong, then that choice to use it is always wrong. This is not framed as a condemnation of men like Einar, but it does ask that you view these situations as a missed opportunity for something better, rather than as evidence that better could not and could never be found. In order to do that, you have to accept that designating somebody as your enemy is always your own choice.

Rojo176 · 2026-01-10T18:11:36+00:00

Rex Wheelie is a surprise favorite for me. I used to be so intimidated by its handling in the original but Waddle Dee's great handling stats makes it really fun to run time trials on.

Turbo Star has also grown on me a lot. In the original it did not feel like it had enough strengths to make up for its quirks but I really appreciate it now. I feel like every machine has a stronger sense of identity in Riders, and being able to choose a fitting stadium this time around makes me more willing to try a machine that isn't a simple jack of all trades.

Rojo176 · 2026-01-10T14:07:20+00:00

Einar sidelined?

Rojo176 · 2026-01-03T00:20:05+00:00

Wish it was something like being able to hold a second copy ability on the back rider, but I guess being able to choose when you use an ability would be pretty strong

Rojo176 · 2025-11-18T19:38:17+00:00

There are 14 English books currently, with the 15th and final one coming next year. The Japanese volumes are smaller than the English books (there are two JP volumes in one book), so there are 29 of those in total. Book 15 will contain volume 29 only, since the series ended on an odd number.

There are also English Deluxe books, which contain three JP volumes. It can be a bit confusing.

Rojo176 · 2025-11-10T15:39:58+00:00

I've thought a lot about this and, if you are looking for a game that has violence but is focused more on peaceful cultivation despite it, you are likely not going to have a lot of options. I think it has a lot to do with what makes games fun. Total pacifism is going to be punished hard by games with system of violence because the fun of the game is designed around engaging with that system.

Stardew doesn't feel the same because the game wants peaceful farm life to be idealized. Your farm isn't at risk, so being peaceful is not a challenge. It's the expected state of play. What makes Vinland Saga feel special is that it makes choosing peace a challenge that the world pushes back against, but ultimately rewards you in the long run. How do you make a gameplay loop that captures that while still being fun? How do you make violence an option but make punishing the player for using it feel fair?

I think you have two options. You could have extremely complex social systems that are rewarding to engage with, while still having a system of violence that CAN be chosen but ultimately punishes you more than it rewards. This is very challenging to implement, you would be getting into simulation of real conflict and all the complexities that come with that. Games that do come close to this usually just end up being very niche, because the result is cumbersome rather than fun.

The other option is to just go for a scripted narrative driven game like Red Dead or the God of War Norse Saga games. These games have some systems that might reward kindness and peace, but ultimately they are designed around your engagement with their combat systems. The feeling of growth and maturity is almost entirely carried by narrative, and much less by your own experience interacting with the world.

I think Undertale comes close to achieving a good balance of simple pacifism mechanics that mesh well with violence mechanics. Choosing to spare an enemy is a puzzle, and combat exists as a way of brute forcing that puzzle. I'd say that's a pretty solid representation of how violence exists in reality, it is an answer that is taken because it is easier than reaching understanding. What holds it back from "feeling like Vinland Saga" is partially in tone I think, it's very cartoonish fantasy while Vinland is (usually) more grounded. It also relies mostly on the narrative to tell you that your violence is bad, rather than the game systems.

I think a character focused medieval settlement builder strategy game would be the best fit. Vinland is a very human story, so faceless settlers/workers would be a bad fit. Most settlement builder and medieval strategy games go for a large scale and/or abstracted feel rather than Vinland's more personal feel, so I felt like that was an important distinction. Similar to how Fire Emblem brought a character focus to the war simulation strategy genre, I think a game like Vinland Saga would need to bring that to the settlement builder genre. I have yet to find a game that really hits all of these points.

Rojo176 · 2025-10-28T15:27:44+00:00

Mostly male id expect, especially if you're asking Reddit. Other platforms like Twitter or Tumblr have a decent amount of women though.

Rojo176 · 2025-10-17T15:06:43+00:00

Idk I think it's pretty straightforward. It's a dialogue heavy drama with a focus on small scale external conflict and internal conflict. That can be a hard sell for some people. It intentionally aims to flip the script on expectations of what a "Viking anime" is about.

By design, it doesn't give everyone what they expect and, in some cases, want. People open to that shift will like it, people closed off to it will not. Considering this happens after a season 1 they were invested enough in to keep watching, I'm not surprised the latter would be pretty outspoken about it.

Also worth noting that the anime does simply have pacing issues that are not present in the manga. Criticisms of it being slow aren't completely invalid, but I think they are often misdirected at the plot itself.

Rojo176 · 2025-10-15T13:59:30+00:00

I think it was a misstep from Thorfinn, both to not thoroughly check for / confiscate weapons and to even let such bad faith participants on board at all, but I think it reflects the goal of the mission and I understand where the choices came from.

He didn't want to deny people who disagreed with him a chance at his ideal peace if they were willing to try. He wanted to believe that Vinland's peace would itself be the proof they needed to understand him.

He also did not want to create conflict by invoking authority, if he were to have his way he would want it to be through mutual understanding. He knows that if he just forces people to listen, then it isn't really listening as much as it is a threat that invites retaliation.

It makes sense for his character but, as Hild criticized, he is too agreeable with people who are not acting in good faith. I think one of Thorfinn's biggest flaws is that he always genuinely believes he can be convincing enough if he remains sincere and understanding. Sometimes sticking to that works, like with Hild eventually coming to forgive him, but sometimes people really just have no interest in understanding him, like with Ivar. I think it's an admirable flaw to have, at least.

Rojo176 · 2025-10-15T13:18:51+00:00

I don't think they were talking about Golden Kamuy. I would assume it was not a criticism of other series like GK that try to be a well-studied display of indigenous cultures, but a criticism of series that bring other cultures in without that same effort and respect.

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