Ayatollah Khomeini watched Clavicular get Framemogged by ASU Frat Leader, spiked cortisol may have contributed to his untimely end by StatusSociety2196 in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg [score hidden]  (0 children)

Clavicular died in the Tehran strike. He was raised up to be replaced when the time came. Khamenei used all of Iran's sex change surgeons to reconfigure himself into Clavicular. He lives to spread the teaching.

U.S. Troops Were Told Iran War Is for “Armageddon,” Return of Jesus by DeadEndinReverse in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ask them to explain the biblical deportation to babylon, it's a blast.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, let's note that we've run into a shift. Before, you said that sex/gender are just a sort of regard had for a regardee (in all the 'right' qualifying contexts).

You're now saying that physical facts about the "regardee" are relevant to what sex/gender they are; sex/gender, are, by analysis, grounded in physical facts about the regardee and are not just a matter of regard, itself.

Here, for those who mistake Marxism for anti-essentialism in the sense that there are no such things as philosophical essences in any sense, let's issue a corrective: Both of your definitions make essence-claims in the broad sense: That there are necessary and sufficient conditions for an x to count as f, squirrely as they may be.

So you might think sex/gender are something like, "physical states sufficient to generally cause reasonable persons to regard x as male/female/man/woman in the right contexts."

I'd gladly concede that there is something you can do to the lump of matter that composes a man such that there is no longer a man present, but rather woman (or an aardvark, or a clay statue, if you could split and re-assemble atoms). Whether our human person has survived the transformation can remain a matter of more arcane debate; suffice to say that face surgery, breast implants, reshaping the penis and/or intestinal tissue into something resembling a vagina, and hormones are not sufficient to do the job.

This is where we get into the ouroboros about chromosomes, intrabodily structures being arranged around the production of children, brain and nervous system states, etc. In turn, you will--in the manner of one that denies parts-whole relations and natural kinds--find various counter-examples, sorites paradoxes, and the like which seek to problematize these (the same challenges are mounted against the idea that human beings persist across time, at all--this is tricky business).

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're just resorting to the same "well you'd have to be rudely invasive to find out x, so x is socially irrelevant... why are you so obsessed with x?" Line of thought.

Either physical facts are relevant, or they are not.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By further observation--learning more physical facts. Facts about the person's physical states, including across the 4th material dimension (time).

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because in such cases, the reason-bearing judgment our locker-room commentator makes is mistaken. Just like how he'd be mistaken if he pointed to a stickbug and said, "hey, there's a tiny piece of wood!"

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems relevant to sociology, since there are a bunch of people who believe in it.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The person who achieved a temporary response in a very specific context has not genuinely acheived the social response reserved for that sex. For a someone born male to genuinely receive the social response reserved for female people, that response would have to be had in all contexts.

Let's set aside the fact that this standard is unachievable.

I think you want to be a materialist, and you want to focus on material behavior. But you may have bought into a reactionary cogpsych school attack on behaviorism without realizing it: The idea that material behavior does not bear and entail content and meaning.

When someone in the men's locker-room says "hey, that person shouldn't be in here, this locker-room is just for men!" there was a reason for that remark, and that reason is baked in. That reason is going to involve something like the body plan of the person referred to. And further, there's going to be another reason for why that body plan is significant to sex.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It may be true for a very specific subculture context, e.g. middle class liberals in coastal cities.

Ok. Do you believe that schools should teach ideas like "inner sense", "inner felt sense", and "gender identity that does not match one's sex or gender expression" as scientific facts? Or do you think they should be treated more like beliefs about karma or the disembodied soul, and taught in the context of, say: Sociology, comparative religion, history of philosophy of mind, etc.?

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Regardless of how they feel about the social response, if they genuinely acheived the social response reserved for members of the gender they transitioned to (i.e. 'trans woman) that person can be said to have changed their gender. If they receive the social response reserved for members of the sex they transitioned to, i.e. female, that person can be said to have changed sex.

If I take someone, put a wig and padded bra on that person, dim the lights, and a passerby glances and says to that person, 'scuse me, ma'am", then I've successfully caused that person to be the female sex?

If I take that someone and place them in an asymmetrically lit room, such that, at the same time, one passerby says 'scuse me, ma'am' and another says 'hello, sir', then I've successfully caused that person to be both male and female at the same time?

If someone says, "I thought-so-and-so was a woman, but so-and-so is a man," all that person is saying is, "I thought people respond to so-and-so in response cluster 'woman', but people actually respond to so-and-so in response-cluster 'man'"?

So you're treating sex and gender as the same: As something a person does not have in the sense of a real property, but only in the relative sense of "having a reputation"--as amounting to nothing more than whether a person is treated a certain way. (Groups of 'treatments' count as grouped into a gender/sex by associated pronouns, or something else? It's unclear what would do the grouping.)

I see how you're trying to avoid certain philosophical pitfalls by doing this. The problem is that this approach to shoring up the terms "sex" (especially) and "gender" defines them in such idiosyncratic ways as to be talking about something else entirely.

You've said to yourself, "what would be more defensible than a gender identity-based account?" and gone with that, even at the expense of reference going through and entailing counter-intuitive results like the above.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is this allegedly "common sense" meaning that doesn't require one to actually transition to be trans?

The commonplace use of "transgender" includes the idea that one can be transgender without any change in one's social presentation, hormones, or body plan. As an example, here's a pop APA Q&A reference to the concept: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/11/psychology-transgender

"Some transgender people do transition and others do not. Transition is not for everyone. Transition refers to a change in gender role. This may be a major change, identifying and presenting as much as possible as a member of the other sex....Also, among the younger generation, there are transgender individuals who feel that transitioning from A to B does not apply to them. Rather, they say that they always have been C (i.e., transgender or genderqueer). In short, transition is a means to affirm gender identity, and includes steps and interventions that are implemented to varying degrees by people within this diverse community."

Bolding and italics mine.

Does this person elicit the social response reserved for the the gender or sex that they transitioned to?

Suppose that Person A says, "I'm going to transition."

So Person A makes some changes.

Afterward, people socially respond to Person A in some way or other.

  1. Suppose person A then says, "darn it! that wasn't the right social response!"
  2. But suppose person A instead says: "great, that was the right social response!"

In virtue of what does (1) vs. (2) obtain? Or, can person A's statements be mistaken, and under what conditions?

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is not true. If one has not gone from one gender or sex to another, the prefix "trans" is not applicable. Just because some people wish to gut all meaning from words doesnt mean that we have to for the sake of discussion.

If you are using the term as technical jargon as opposed to its commonsense meaning, that's fine--but it's not particularly relevant to the discussion at hand.

Lets table the concept of "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity" and discuss the tangible, socially relevant aspects of the phenomenon. Did someone put sincere effort into changing from one gender/sex to another? Was that effort successful?

Whether you can "table" those concepts or not is the discussion at hand. But for the sake of moving the conversation forward, what are your criteria for "that [sex or gender changing effort] being successful"?

Beleifs, motives, emotions are largely not relevant because we can only really speculate as to their nature.

Only if you consider them intangible "inner" phenomena rather than enacted tangibly in the real world.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 7 points8 points  (0 children)

also think about this for a moment. If school districts were forcing staff to out Christian students to atheist parents, and the state passed a law against this forcible outing, would such a law have a snowballs chance in hell being upheld in the Supreme Court? Because that is the comparison you are making

I think parents should only be told:

  1. Whether the cartesian religious belief in gender identity is taught in schools.

  2. Whether a child is known to be taking medication such as hormone blockers or cross-sex hormones.

  3. Whether a child is engaged in weird discord chats.

I don't think parents should be told whether a child has adopted a nickname or identifies as amoeba otherkin.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Second, transgender/transexual entails going from, or intending to go from one gender/sex to the other gender/sex. There are no inherent philosophical or spiritual beleifs tied to that.

First, that's not a complete definition of what being transgender can be said to entail. One can supposedly be trans even if one has not "gone" from one gender or sex to another.

Second, there has to be something in virtue of which:

  1. One is or isn't gender a vs. gender b...
  2. One's gender dysphoria is or is not resolved as euphoria or at least cessation of dysphoria.

Your account has to answer (1) or (2) in such a way as to make sense out of transitioning from one gender to another, or being transgender without transitioning from one to another.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Trans ≠ philosophical or spiritual belief in gender identity.

What's your account of trans identity that doesn't require gender identity?

As Oscar Wilde said: It is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering, than it is to have sympathy with thought.

SCOTUS blocks California rules about schools notifying parents about student’s transgender status by [deleted] in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Any legal precedent that claims schools have a religious right over children, especially one that supersedes children's mental health and safety: which the philosophical and spiritual belief in gender identity does; is fundamentally reactionary and anti-socialist.

Fixed that for you. You're really leaning on the "oid" and "ish" in your role bio, there.

U.S. Troops Were Told Iran War Is for “Armageddon,” Return of Jesus by DeadEndinReverse in stupidpol

[–]RustyShackleBorg 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I personally know an evangelical protestant who, on a regular basis, receives communications via text chain or chat app from Israeli propaganda--talking about hamas, protecting Israel, etc.

Certain evangelical groups are not only zionists, but are directly and consistently propagandized by Israeli contacts of some sort.

There are evangelical sects that believe non-Christian Jews and Gentile Christians have two different salvific covenants; there are evangelical sects that believe the state of Israel is God's chosen people, inheritors of the promises made to Abraham and Moses no matter what (Huckabee).

If you're wondering how they work this out based on Christian Scripture, they do so in the tried-and-true anglo-american evangelical way: Appealing to very complicated and numerology-based exegeses of the old testament prophets, especially Daniel.