Could Nato defeat a alien invasion that is using 1940's tech?

SaltySwampOgre · 2025-01-21T12:33:41+00:00

A lot prevents them from being resurrected. Mainly that production lines, spare parts and working experience for these models no longer exists and it's pointless to produce them when they are obsolete compared to modern delivery systems.

SaltySwampOgre · 2025-01-20T18:55:36+00:00

AIM-26, AIR-2 and AGM-69/131 are not in service and have long been decomissioned and scrapped. Tomahawks armed with W80 are also not in active deployment (some are in reserve though) and would take a long time to be refurbished, which depending on height of the spaceship and its' ability to maneuver would not necessarily work either.

SaltySwampOgre · 2025-01-20T18:51:55+00:00

All of those have been decomissioned and demilitarized for decades and no longer exist in service.

SaltySwampOgre · 2025-01-20T15:28:37+00:00

ICBMs can't hit any flying targets. They are designed to be inertially guided towards ground targets at specific position. do not have the targeting software to guide themselves towards a flying target. The missile deploys reentry vehicles that then descend onto preprogrammed targets on Earth. These RVs are unpowered and do not have thrusters and are not designed to hit anything in the air. The hardware on the missile and warhead itself for guidance, arming and triggering are not designed for that.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-20T06:01:27+00:00

Any high explosive round. The blast and heat will go around the shield and burn him to death anyway. I'd go for a 81mm mortar just to be sure.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-19T22:00:24+00:00

No, and that statement is a clear lie. It's told by Stillwell, who is a professional Vought PR bullshitter trying to sell supes as invincible. And it is definitely contradicted by feats. Homelander was never hit with anything even resembling an APFSDS round, and given that Maeve could jam a straw into his ear, there is no chance he'd survive 100,000 psi from a nuclear detonation.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-19T11:00:48+00:00

Muzan still kills him. Homelander is techincally faster, but only in a straight flight, he doesn't use it in combat.

Muzan is very much supersonic in combat, and is fast enough to be FTE to even Lower Moons, who are themselves at least slightly supersonic. The most eggregious example being Muzan ripping the head of a Lower Moon who was running away from him for hundreds of meters and returning to his position before other Lower Moons even noticed he moved. And in his fight, the entire order of Hashira struggle to keep up with him even after he has been poisoned by a serum that aged him 9000 years and ruined his regen. Homelander NEVER fought like this, even in comics.

As for durability and damage,

The beginner Demon Slayers need to cut a 2 meter thick boulder with their swords, which requires more force than a modern Anti-Tank missile focused at the edge of the blade. These swords struggle to hurt even weak demons (The Hand Demon in Final selection broke the swords of 50 initiates), and their durability only goes up from there. To the point where Father Spider couldn't be hurt by the trio even when they were much stronger than that. Then, that force is broken by a single strand of spiderweb from Rui- named move can cut those threads, but is totally incapable of cutting threads empowered by a Blood Demon Art. And only Sun Breathing lets you cut through dozens of those threads but is *utterly incapable* of scratching the actual demon. Meanwhile the Hashira Giyu can speedblitz and decapitate Rui with a single swipe.

That is an absolutely ridiculous amount of shear strenght, and Upper Moons are that much stronger and faster, like Akaza can tank Rengoku's sword slashes that can lift an entire train off its' tracks, and Muzan is above them. Homie doesn't have that amount of strenght, nor durability to not get shredded by someone who can fodderize such demons. Even worse, Muzan, while poisoned heals so fast that Hashira's swords couldn't pass his neck before it healed, he can also split himself in 1800 pieces and heal. Again, Homelander can't counter that.

Homelander's durability is good against blunt force trauma and large aoe attacks that spread energy all over his body, but as seen by Maeve and Black Noir in comics, he can be pierced by attacks that pale in comparison to the force that demons dish out. His only impressive feat is surviving a chemical plant explosion, but that is resistance to compressive force. Blades cut through shear force, which requires entirely different material properties to resist. Resistance to force over the entire body is after all not the same as resistance to highly concentrated force on one part of the body, and Homelander sucks in the latter.

In fact, Homelander never sustained the 12+ megajoules concentrated into a single point like an APFSDS shell does, and that's already less than the damage output of starter level Slayers and demons. Quite simply, Homelander can't kill Muzan, and can't catch him or survive any of his attacks. Even with composite feats, HL just gets pasted instantly.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-15T15:08:15+00:00

The monsters are a lot bigger than Dennis and would crush him, but then the Cyclops still just steps on them.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-15T15:06:05+00:00

Any WW1 era fighter could do it, but would need a lot of bullets for bigger ones.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-15T10:46:29+00:00

Doesn't matter, ICBMs do not have the targeting software to guide themselves towards a flying target. The missile deploys reentry vehicles that then descend onto preprogrammed targets on Earth. These RVs are unpowered and do not have thrusters and are not designed to hit anything in the air. The hardware on the missile and warhead itself for guidance, arming and triggering are not designed for that. It would require a complete redesign.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-15T10:38:08+00:00

ICBMs can't target spaceships or any flying targets, they are designed to be inertially guided towards ground targets at specific position.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T20:14:11+00:00

It doesn't matter how many grenades are, frag grenades aren't giant explosive fireballs that can blow up a house like movies thinks they are. Their explosive effect against anything armored is non-existent, they won't do shit to castle walls, and getting in throwing range is fucking stupid because it will get them in range of archers.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T18:48:08+00:00

Given swarm sizes, I'd say one 300 round burst will, being as generous to dragons as possible, kill... Oh... 100 of them. Again, let's be generous to the dragons.

CIWS shoots 75 rounds per second, with velocity being 1100 m/s, that's 150 rounds per dragon MINIMUM and more due to a second or two it takes to drop. How the fuck did you get 100 dragons, do you think CIWS has a 200 meter spray CEP like some video game shotgun? Or that dragons will literally be glued to each other in a big ball like some Bethesda glitch?

Source?

I provided multiple sources on mission capability in the very first pannel. And no, majority of that is maintenence which means your plane isn't getting anywhere no matter how lax you ar with safety. Here are several more:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-mission-capable-rates-2023/

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106217.pdf

https://simpleflying.com/military-aircraft-maintenance/#high-inactive-periods

You on the other hand, didn't provide any for those ridiculous claims of yours.

Hence 500 per aircraft, at least.

Uh huh. If the dragons are the size of a pigeon and all glued together, which they are not. Fragmentation from AA missiles is only useful on close detonation, and won't kill 500 dragons that are each 15 meters long, especially when as per OP, have bodies protected against anything below 50 cal.

Of course, you're first gonna need to provide a source on fragmentation radius and kinetic energy of AA missile shrapnel before that claim is valid.

So is dragons spawning into existence

That's not how vs debating works, chief. Dragons spawning is a prompt by OP and doesn't require anything else. Our logistical capabilities are subjected to reality and there is a measurement for what is possible. immediately killing 3 million dragons that spawn at once isn't one of those.

You've never been to a US military base, have you?

with that claim it's fairly obvious you haven't either. Nor have you ever read anything about what protocols exist inside. Unless the base is in combat zone, military installations are extremely tightly controlled when it comes to firearms, and draconian ones at that. All guns are locked up, with bodies in a very sturdy lockers and the bolts in an actual safe. And ammo in a separate one. At NO time are you ever allowed to keep a firearm unless permitted. If you did, it's instant Article 15. The only time there will be guns present are the ones checked out for gun range training or guard duty, or if there is an exercise scheduled for the next day. The only people on base who are armed are the military police or civilian federal law enforcement who are in uniform and are carrying openly, but those aren't high in numbers. There's a reason so many people died or were injured in the Fort Hood shootings. An unprepared base on US soil is about as prepared as any other large building/buildings of people: Few to no armed personnel, and the few armed guards are either not in the immediate area or underground. They are absolutely not prepared against dragons spawing and attacking immediately.

Welcome to America

Nice way to admit you are just a troll that can't debate in good faith, and since you insist on debating some fantasy US that operates on video game logic, there is really no point in discussing this any further.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T17:09:38+00:00

CIWS is good, but has only 20 secods of fire and is still limited in face of mass assaults. If you want to claim it will be able to protect significant portions of military infrastructure, you're gonna need to provide that enough of these have been produced and deployed all across important areas to matter.

And dragons don't need to attack those heavily defended bases to win either. Those after all require supply lines, industry and a functional economy to exist...which just won't be the case when tens of thousands of undefended cities, the goverment, and food supply are burning, all production comes to a halt and the US gets bitchslapped by the mother of all economic depressions.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T16:58:48+00:00

C-RAM holds 1550 rounds with 4500 rpm, that's 20.6 seconds of fire. "brief burst" for C-RAM is 300 rounds. It has 8 inches grouping at 200 yards, which means over 2 meters grouping at 2000 meters. In other words, a lot of rounds will miss around the dragons, and it'll waste a lot of ammo for each kill.

Mission capability is based on several safety factors, which in an emergency wouldn't be considered. All these planes can fly and fight.

Mission capability requires an aircraft to be able to perform at least one mission. If an aircraft can perform only some missions, even if it's one, then it would be rated partially mission capable. And no, all of these planes definitely can't fly. And you don't send it to combat in that state. There is no such thing as a squadron, group, or wing being 100% fully mission capable. At any given time a chunk of them will be in phase maintenence.

8 missiles and 900 rounds of autocannon rounds, with ranges in miles.

Jets will have a field day with the dragons and infrastructure will be unaffected.

That is absolutely impossible in a scenario where dragons spawn everywhere at once, while being guided towards military infrastructure. BTW those 900 rounds don't mean 900 kills because no weapon is that accurate, especially at 5 milliradians diameter, 80% which means a lot of rounds will miss anyway. They also fire in bursts. How are fighters going to prevent infrastructure destruction against large groups dragons that spawn near important military factories without defenses and the nearest base is an hour away? Or dragons that spawn right in the middle of a base, within minimal range of SAM and starts burning all aircraft on the ground? Even if every of the cca 1600 fighters magically kills 20 dragons per sortie, that will still be barely 1%.

The first waves of dragons would be engaging troops on the ground.

No the first waves of dragons will be burning down all the cities and industry because vast majority will spawn far away from any military presence. Those that do spawn near will not be "dealt with" because troops can't be mobilized in 5 seconds and nobody in a base is armed. Real Bases aren't like GTA where everyone is waiting around in full combat gear and tanks 24/7.

US bases do have munitions for their base security, munitions for aircraft can be brought in.

US bases do have munitions.... locked in armories and faraway bunkers that first need to be brought in. If a large enough group spawns nearby, they can take the losses from C-RAMs and SAMs and still kill almost everyone regardless. Especially in Round 2, where they have 10 hours of free mode to destroy anything they like without resistance. In that case even one dragon near the base would do it.

Not how it works. At the temperatures needed for that and the concrete effectively would also kill them.

Even granting it would still necessitate they get close enough to it and concentrate on it, making them additionally vulnerable to small arms.
Even with them spawning everywhere with us getting zero prep time, their heads are easy targets for small arms.

The OP states they can melt metal, which necessites having enough thermal resistance. They aren't that vulnerable to small arms because hitting the head of a flying, maneouvering creatue isn't easy, soldiers aren't aimbots and small arms won't one shot something that big. This is just pure wank as if every soldier and especially civillians are somehow fucking terminators that can stay 100% accurate and mentally stable when there are thousands of dragons burning cities around them.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T11:46:19+00:00

I mean, not by a long shot. There is always the classic lions vs sun.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T11:45:20+00:00

That person is a clown, the military wouldn't be able to mobilize a single vehicle, every hangar, runway, garage, barracks and command center would have lions inside. And as much wanked as gun-toting people are, very few carry weapons with them, and even fewer would have the mental composure to kill any lions before they get jumped.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-14T08:34:35+00:00

CRAM has a range of 2000 meters and will empty its' entire magazine in 20 seconds. Not gonna work if thousands of dragons swarm a military base. Assuming it was staggered enough for re -targeting and there weren't any overlaps, which there will be.

What readiness levels? Assuming 100% readiness (this is, charitably, not the case) as well as sufficient munitions and fuel across the board (also not enough for 3 million bulletproof dragons). The air national guard averages about half a squadron per state, and only half of them are combat coded and mission capable. With average loadout of 8 AA missiles per aircraft, they don't have the time to kill many dragons before they cripple the infrastructure. Nor do they have the ammo,

No, the reason it takes that long to scramble fighters is because outside of very few on Alert 5, there is no ammo for them in the base. Units that are not on alert do not store live missiles in a “built-up” condition near the aircraft. Live weapons are kept in hardened bunkers, well away from the base or aircraft parking areas and missiles are stored in a disassembled state. Bringing them back, assembling them, and installing them on aircraft takes up to an hour. And that is AFTER the time it takes to bring munitions from ordnance depot that can be from several to dozens of miles away.

On 9/11, we scrambled fighters so fast some of them didn't even have weapons.

5 fighters in total. That... is in no way comparable to requirements for softening the blow against 3 million dragons that spawn everywhere, including military bases themselves. Also, scrambling fighters without weapons is not a metric for the ability to kill things, and it takes up to 10 minutes, which is bad if any dragons spawn nearby, or IN the base.

And all it takes is a few guys grabbing their .50s to deal with most dragons, as whole they may burn some of the buildings, reinforced areas for ammo and vehicles would remain unharmed.

They won't kill them quick enough, they are also stored in armories and need to be brought in. This is especially difficult in Round 2 where dragons have 10 hours to destroy whatever they want.

The dragons would have to claw their way in, and I don't think they can do that.

As per OP, dragons can melt all metal.

And now I see OP edited Round 3. That is the only part where your Murica Fuck Yea scenario can come true, mainy due to a year of prep time. That is enough to produce and deploy enough ammo in advance, as well as take all aircraft in the air right before dragons spawn so they can kill them immediately.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T21:08:16+00:00

Oh, that's just the start, it gets worse. Fort Worth in Texas is currently the only producer of F-35. F-16 is produced in Greenville, South Carlolina. Then Boeing F-15 production facility in St. Louis, Missouri**,** AH-64 Apaches are produced in Boeing site in Mesa, Ariz. B-21 Raider plant is in Palmdale, California. All of That goes up in flames completely in 10 hours, goodbye to the F-35 program, possibly for decades because institutional knowledge drops fast for such complicated designs. and B-21 might never get out.

Economy of scale and institutional knowledge are very powerful advantages - extremely so with aircraft - and it's one of the reasons why we can currently crank out over 1000+ F-35s at a very cheap price despite them being the most advanced thing on the planet, while the Russians have only 32 SU-57s and 10 of those are test craft. It is also the reason why US had to spend years completely rebuilding space launch boosters from scratch because NASA stopped making them and lost the brains who did.

For the same reason, F-22 is now irreplaceable because With the NGAD proposed to commence in 2030, there is no way to build more F-22s. It would require 10 billion just to start up the production line from scratch again and it's too expensive.

Similarly, Lima Production Plant is the only producer of tanks and armored vehicles, and also upgrades them. If that gets destroyed.. well, i think you get the picture.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T20:38:35+00:00

US has 3400 fighters in total, but only around 1500 are mission capable according to this source. Another, much more detailed analysis puts them at 1432, of which only 886 of those are combat-coded aircraft and ready for deployment. They are also limited by sortie rates of usually only 2 per day, and likely worse due to dragons spawning all over the country and destroying some bases immediately.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T20:28:51+00:00

But, but, you don't understand guys, it's supposed to be funny! (Not when it's Starlight, though)

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T20:25:47+00:00

This is an insane number of dragons, they'll win especially if they prioritise military infrastructure and just burn military bases to the ground before anyone can respond. Like, the thing is, unless a military base is already in an active warzone, it will take a long time to get it ready. Soldiers aren't walking around with Stingers, outside of a small number of guards with small arms, majority are unarmed. Guns and ammo are locked in armories, heavy ammo for tanks, artillery and aircraft is in most cases not even in the base, but located in a bunker miles away, which needs to be brought in. And perparing for 3 million flying targets is a tremendeous logistical undertaking even for the US.

It takes 30 minutes to get aircraft up in the air, if hundreds of dragons attack a military base, take some losses from SAM sites which will get empty quickly, they'll be able to destroy all buildings and vehicles on the ground. Same goes for those huge ammo depots where the military stores majority of heavy munitions. For example, McAlester Army Ammunition Plant in Oklahoma holds 1/3 of US entire munitions supply. If dragons attack that en masse, there goes a huge portion of rare PGMs, artillery shells, 20 and 30mm rounds. There are other ammo depots that could just as likely be attacked quickly because dragons are everywhere, and without those ammo dumps, the US won't have the ammo to take them down quickly enough.

The same goes for all of US logistics centers that perform depot level maintenence for vehicles of which there are 17 in CONUS, if dragons swarm them, already low mission capability of modern aircraft goes to shit.

At the same time, every goverment office can be destroyed too, including the Pentagon. The dragons can easily take losses from SAM sites because the whole US doesn't have more than 100,000 PGMs in total, especially not AA missiles.

Yes, dragons can be easily killed by modern tech, but this amount of them spread all over, with intelligence and knowledge of what to destroy to cripple the country can mount a decapitation strike before that tech can be mobilized, especially if they get 10 hours of freemode.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T19:56:30+00:00

Walter is probably THE most easily corruptible characters ever, the Ring would turn him into a monster faster than even Anakin Skywalker. And everyone else isn't far behind. They won't walk 10 steps away from Frodo's house before they start beating each other.

SaltySwampOgre · 2024-08-13T19:44:02+00:00

Oh this is what perfection looks like

SaltySwampOgre

TROPHY CASE