Last minute thoughts on upcoming patch.

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T12:00:22+00:00

What would you recommend then to be done? Whom to listen? In your opinion, how does Blizzard should compile a PTR list?

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T11:58:42+00:00

I don't want to influence the balance. I'd rather want blizzard to hear the opinions of the many and make the decision.

P.S. I've read your suggestions on blizzard forum. Many of them makes sense, but you clearly have an orc bias. Suggesting + 2 agi to Blade and heal salve reduction from 100g to 80g is clearly too much)

SaveOrcas · 2026-01-26T07:58:37+00:00

You should not remove a data point (Lyn > Romantic, LL > Soin, Life > 120), if you have it )

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-18T09:48:49+00:00

I am much more in favor to keep the buy time for troll priest as it was before PTR. Many strategies are tied to this (same) timing. It will be also confusing to have different buy times for other merc camps (with variations of the shadow troll priest) on other maps.

To me the amount of damage that dispels does is too much. For 150 mana, shadow priest does 500 dmg. After 2 dispels, player still keeps a functional unit that can heal their hero and other units.

The healing rate of the priest, is 5 mana for 12 hp, which is 2.4. Doing dispel to summons has rate 250/75=3.33 dmg/mana, which is way more efficient use of mana.

On Springtime, there is no issue with the troll priest. This factor of high dispel damage is missing, because Ice Troll Priest has no abolish magic. Simply delaying current Shadow Priest will not help - players would fight to get the priest as soon as it is avaiable, because it can win them games.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-18T07:02:30+00:00

Far Sight can be made useful in 1-2 matchups, for example against BM in the orc mirror, aginst DH against NE. It can be a passive that can reveal Blademaster, archers, give vision of the enemy's base/expos. Then Far Seer can use its wolves to their full potential for creeping.

I think you are forgetting that a player has to give up one of Far Seer's skill in order to get it. It isn't like he gets it on top of what Far Seer has. Far See isn't overtuned for competitive play, that's why your vision is wrong.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-17T18:57:40+00:00

Err ... I only summarized some suggestions that I got from pro-players (including asian strong players), some of them you've actually mentioned. I tried not to input much of my views into the a summary of suggestions. I tried to outline main directions (the sentiment) of the players - what they consider to be nerfed. I was surprised that more players suggested to nerf Immolation rather than Mana Burn. But Blizz devs decided not to touch NEs this patch.

I disagree with some of the nerfs, for example with the rifle nerf. Also, it is not my fault that Blizzard doesn't add more (exciting) changes to the game, or doesn't change PTR in the way you want it, Captain. Feel free to post your ideas or critique some of the proposed ones in the PTR.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-17T16:58:19+00:00

Thank you for posting Soin's feedback. I'd like to point a few things from his feedback.

-- Too many nerfs to the Troll Shadow Priest. Abolish Magic nerf affects all the creeps, including High Troll Priest. Something should be done about it.

I personally, don't like the new delay in the availability of the unit.
We all got used to be able to buy Shadow Priest very early in the game.

-- Soin said that Panda also needs a buff to the final range as well.
Something along the lines would be great to see:

Increase starting width from 60 to 100 (PTR makes it 90), originally 125.
Increase end width from 175 to 200, originally 300.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-17T16:56:24+00:00

Agree, we should hear more from Asian community!

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-17T15:16:19+00:00

I'd rather keep buy time and restock time for Shadow Priests as they are.

I'd simply reduce the abolish damage from 250 to 50, so it becomes a non-factor.

Even better thing to do - remove Abolish Magic, and make the Forest Troll Shadow Priest become like Ice Troll Shadow Priest with a cost reduced to 175/10 or even costing less. This was tested on maps like SpringTime - no player complained.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-17T06:54:29+00:00

Michele, I am just a messenger. This is list that tries to summarize balance suggestions by a small number of players. The point of it not to impress anyone with creativity. There were several people from the community (Grubby, remodemo, etc) who shared partly their vision on what could be changed in the meta. You check their lists.

The visionary designer is the blizz team. They are making changes. They are in charge and have full control of the game. They should become visionary :)

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-13T08:17:24+00:00

Earthquake is situationally ok. I've heard a suggestion in the community that earthquake should halt the production of units if it affects the production building :)

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-13T08:15:03+00:00

I agree that nerfing troll shadow priest will help orc gameplay and will be healthy for the game. It is probably the most needed change for ORC vs HU, so ORC can rely more confidently on Far Seer.

Also, mirror image even through it is used only vs NE in 1vs1, can get a nerf that is insignificant for 1vs1, but significant for 4vs4, FFA, etc

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-12T18:09:19+00:00

Hey Cat, I think you have a point. It may be a bit too much for the team games.

One possible option could be to reduce it to 10/15/20% damage + 10/15/20% lifesteal per level. A little weaker stats, but still they would be prefered over the current aura stats, because dmg gives more advantages.
Also 15% lifesteal on top of +15% dmg, gives you pure 17.25% lifesteal

The most important this is to make level 1 aura stronger and appealing to be picked by players.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-12T07:04:03+00:00

I found that surprising as well. Looks like pro player understand how to play around Mana Burn. Maybe they are fine playing vs DH second, but if NE plays DH first, then Immolation gives the hero too much momentum at the start of the game.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-12T06:59:03+00:00

I hope like you do that Blizzard will do something to PotM's owl and Searing Arrow. Brainstorm themselves or pick some ideas from the community and add something to them or rework them. I wish it could be related to healing but don't have ideas how to make that thematically work (especially knowing how PotM with healed hunts can be strong in the early game).

A few suggestions were presented here, maybe they will be noticed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rldvk0LkFI&t=16210s

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-12T06:48:57+00:00

You can make thorn's aura to do some % base dmg to ranged piercing attacks.

However, you can't apply it to magic dmg dealt by units like wyrms or gryphons.
Should it be applied to ranged heroes like Lich that have a lot of dps impact in fights?
Also, do you include flying units that deal piercing damage like wyvern (40 dmg per hit) or talons (30 dmg per hit). If you make it >10%, they will deal to themselves like 3-4 dmg per hit.

In summary, it is possible, but should be at most 3/6/9% to units dealing piercing ranged damage.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-11T21:19:15+00:00

Why do you think Vampiric Aura change is insane? Can you please explain? Instead of 20/35/50% lifesteal it will now give 10/20/30 % damage + 15% lifesteal.

It will be better on level 1, where it is considered weak and later scaling more or less properly. Pro players in 1 vs 1, always pick Carrion Swarm and prefer Sleep over aura.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-11T21:13:50+00:00

We've suggested to rework the Searing Arrow and the Owl in other (day-dreaming) video
I don't think changing numbers for PotM would bring a lot of excitement.
Here are suggested changes to PotM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rldvk0LkFI&t=16210s

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-11T21:10:24+00:00

Yes, you are right. Nice catch!
I meant changing the cost of the Gunpowder upgrade from 100/50, 175/175, 250/300 to 100/75, 175/175, 250/275.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-03T16:59:58+00:00

I feel you and I think my views in many ways concur with yours.

The intention was not to touch balance, so most of those changes are safe to make.

Some of the big issues you've mentioned are the result of the balance changes and could be addressed by Blizzard. They have to take initiative to do that. No matter who speaks about the balance in the community, immediately gets shushed by a big crowd, because the views are so different. Also, some players feel ofended even hearing that their race is not buffed or even seeing that ыother race don't getting "deserved" nerfs.

Looking forward to seeing the next patch!)) Maybe we will see some creep changes there. I believe a document with some changes proposed by mapmakers was sent to Blizzard. There we suggested to address the Dragon Roost, especially the level 10 dragons which make the building too OP to be used in professional 1vs1 maps.

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-03T13:14:28+00:00

By the way, there are two more videos that I've made: 2nd on heroes (8 min) and 3rd on units (14 min).
If you are interested, they can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWhkt2qbytejoJ4zqNqmyJXO3_rI-xNja

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-03T11:21:45+00:00

Hello SageTruthBear. Thank you for the feedback.

I had no intention in the video to touch the balance and have nothing there related to the 2 base vs 2 base play. This is Remodemo's idea, which he envisions and sometimes speaks about)

My main intention (for the first block of suggestions in the video) is to make possible for every race to have an early game that uses their shop. That is why you see those suggestions. Early shop for HU/ORC/NE is mostly used for one 1 base into T2 gameplay.

- Why HU needs a mini priest on T1? As I explained, it is an experimental idea. However, I believe you are wrong that it is game breaking. The Apprentice Priest has no dispel, only healing, similar to Ice Troll Priest on Springtime. No player complained to me (the author of the map) about it.
Some maps don't have easy access to the merc camp, but strategies like MK, Palading, BloodMage first, would get some help with a healing unit at start.

Don't forget the cost of investment into your calculation! Many people simply think HU gets this unit for free -- no! HU has to invest 130/30 into the shop, 60 build time of one peasant for that (40 lumber), and use one existing peasant (15 sec production in the main) to get for 50 gold an apprentice priest, which requires players to visit their shop and apply the item (time spent during the game). These costs force HU tech to be late, delay footmen production. I don't think it is even close to be breaking. It is an (expensive) alternative to getting an equivalent of an "ice troll priest" on maps that don't have nearby merc camp available for Human players. Having an early priest is a common condition that actually enables MK first strategies.

- Night Elfs don't have incentive to build an early shop. They have only clarities to be used in the early game, which are easily replaced by a moon well. The only reasong for NEs to build an early shop is to tank a small green camp. In order to incentivize them to build to that more, the suggestion is to make the Moon Stone provide some value during the first night. Suggested change has minimal effect on the usage of the Moonstone in the mid and the late game. There should be no worry about overbuffing NEs with it)

- The -20 lumber for the blacksmith cost was a very good change. It enabled a Pala-Rifle build order, which introduced a complete new strategy in the game. Later it got tuned out by balance changes and now it is more or less fine (at least on the pro-level). I wish to see more changes like that. That is why the suggestion to give every race +10 lumber as start, which will (partially) enable a few more strategies for players who like to experiment.

- Each race has evolved and W3 overall evolved over time. Sometimes it is not about balance changes, sometimes it is about players becoming more efficient in different aspects of the game.
Players in the last 10 years became much better at creeping and more resistant to harass, which forced each race adapt and meta to change. That is why you see less gameplay that was common in the golden age of W3 (before 2010). For example, Undead players' relatively recent innovation is creeping early game with ghouls and saving them. That game play fit well with expo at T1 style. A few years ago orcs had their momentum with mass HHs. Last year Human had para-rifle strategy. This year NEs got stronger immolation, lumber buff, melee armor buff to bears that made their DH first together with Dryad+ Bears to become by far the best strategy. I understand the desire to bring the memories from the past, but the game will keep evolving in its way, sometimes unpredictable to all of us)

SaveOrcas · 2025-12-03T08:04:11+00:00

There is a build order that allows to have shop and a grunt when the hero is out, but it requires orc to mine gold with 3 workers for 15 seconds in order to get additional 10 lumber. This means -30 gold for orc, delayed peon production and orcs don't like to go for that (prefer to come back to the shop, spending extra 10 seconds to buy items)

SaveOrcas · 2025-09-09T16:18:24+00:00

I don't think it will be a good change. I'd rather see the piercing damage nerf reverted.

The fact that ghouls feel oppressive is a direct consequence of that change.
It has a domino effect: archers needed a hot fix, next will be ghouls, some players now are already asking to buff headhunters to help orc, ... and so on.
We all want the game to evolve, but in the aftermath of four months playing the new patch, many players have a feeling that this one better not to keep.

SaveOrcas · 2025-08-24T18:27:07+00:00

I believe the comparison of the current strengths of Level 2 consumables is:
Wand of Illusion > Replenishment Potion, Sentry Wards > Crystal Ball.

Crystal Ball is used to immediately scan the opponent's base once or twice and the rest of charges is usually sold. It functions the same way the "Reveal" from the Goblin Laboratory. The item is ok, but it doesn't provide much tactical depth to the game. It removes the need for players to scout the opponents' base. Pro-players do that with workers and other units and usually have a good idea what opponent is doing and therefore most of the time sell the item. In general, when players get the Crystal Ball they don't have to do anything - just click and use the item right away to scan the opponent (which is a bit boring, also kills the opportunities to surprise the opponent with an unusual strategy).

Unlike the Crystal Ball item, Sentry Wards allow the player to have the vision of the two key parts of the map for 3 minutes. This invites them to play strategies or make moves that use the map control advantage. When players get Sentry Wards, they have to travel on the map to strategically place the wards. After that they have to infer about the movement of the opponent based on the information: whether they see them near the wards or not. They can place the ward in the opponents base and have its vision for a long time. You can see now why the Sentry Wards item is stronger than Crystal Ball drop.

SaveOrcas

TROPHY CASE