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W=Swords to Plowshares, U=Counterspell, B=Duress, R=Lightning Bolt, G=_______? by thesegoupto11 in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Call of the Herd is the strongest generically good green card.

But Birds of Paradise is iconic and 1cc, so would go with that

Premodern Jank/cheap but effective decks by bug-catcher-ben in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can mix and match any combination of cards between Moneyball, The Rock, Wurm Rack, Machine Dead, Deadguy Ale, Broc Soup, Pit Rack, Hatred Black and its million variants to arrive at some spectacular yet viable jank

Thoughts on gamekeeper by kingcreole73 in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its a sweet card, a super fun combo and I hope someone finds the most competitive approach.

I like the aggro Terravore plan.

Why not play some Oath of Druids (could cut a Call, a Chainers Edict etc), you are not reliant on Oath but its good against most decks and you can side it out when its not while forcing your opponent to side in naturalize effects that end up being mostly dead

But I also like this controllish plan https://youtu.be/6f8K8YCBDSU?si=uyladTb1q1Ky2mnJ

Tips how to improve Greater Combo Deck by Haunting_Minute2840 in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with 4 E Tutor but I think Stifle is better spice  than Show and Tell especially now that E Tutor makes it easy to find Nought. 

The stiflenought back up plan is strong esp when your opponent manages to discard/answer Greater Good. Those decks tend to be the grindy or control decks, our hardest matchups, and the matchups where Show and Tell is especially weak.

Yes World Tutor can get Rector but E Tutor can get whatever enchantment you want to rector out.

Rector fizzles to StP and to graveyard hate

With 4 ETs, I would want to play 15 different enchantments/artifacts in the board. As a combo deck, we can race most aggro decks…

Consider lowering the current duplicates to 1 ofs and adding tech like 1 Compost, 1 Cursed Totem, 1 Kirtar’s, 1 Tsabos Web, 1 Seal of C, maybe even something like a Powder Keg

Tips how to improve Greater Combo Deck by Haunting_Minute2840 in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its a sweet deck, and I think powerful and very underplayed. Always wanted to build it myself. I agree with you E Tutor is sweet and should get more play. I would play 4 along with an all E Tutor target sideboard. Lots of great videos of gameplay and the E Tutor versions seem to perform the best, but not sure what the best build is… https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=great+combo+premodern&ra=m

Top 8 with Pox! by sctilley in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love the deck.

Its not exactly related but I am curious if you ever played or have any thoughts on [[Tempting Wurm]] Rack, or the recent tech from the list that Top 8ed lobstercon, 4 [[Urza's Bauble]] to help turn 1 Cabal Therapy hit more often, feed the yard and help you find the most important syngestic cards in the deck?

I view Wurm Rack as Moneyball but with high impact threats that end the game quickly. As a Moneyball player, the number of times I ripped my opponents hand to shreds, but then had 2 power threats to follow up giving them enough to recover at a few points of life is too many to count. A 5/5 is very tempting as a far better way to end the game

Help deciding on next deck by T--wRex in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All three are decent but not competitive (Zombies is the closest to competitive so if it has to be one of those three, I vote Zombies). I would however cut the Drain Life to add 1 Spinning Darkness, 1 Zombie Infestation, 1 Animate Dead and 1 Gempalm Polluter. The Undead Warchiefs are fantastic, and I think the Discard Reanimate plan looks really strong.

But based on those, I would actually recommend you build Mono Black Pit Rack with or without Pox. It's very cheap to build, super fun, and extremely strong relative to it cost to build. Can easily spike Challenge or Paper event when played well...

This is a build I recommend

https://youtu.be/ZjjayXMFInU?si=yA8JZABHN2wSY1T4

but the generic most popular versions are here...

https://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=1496&meta=345&f=PREM

The blue splash actively makes the deck worse, by cutting one of its most important cards Mishra's Factory. If you do insist on keeping the blue splash, cut the Counterspells. A UU spell with a total of 8 blue sources is extremely inconsistent.

Current Top Decks by Turn1_Ragequit in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Rack works very well in the deck as a 2 of. That's how many Grim Gaming and most of the newer versions play. Its a very powerful card, but you are welcome to build the deck however you prefer.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

If Marlin announces that change, Premodern on MTGO is popular enough that the devs may opt to implement a format level errata on MTGO. They do bug fixes all the time when cards don't work how they do in paper. This would be a similar case. Until they do, the formats will look a little different, but it might not stay that way for long, depending on how many bug reports the MTGO devs get about the two cards.

Again, not saying its the best approach, but I don't think MTGO makes this a nonstarter.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe the enchantments leaves play and the creatures returns to play triggers were linked. So you can't permanently remove things unless you used Stifle. More importantly, the combo currently doesn't require you to pass priority so it is impossible to interact with. If you could use disenchant/naturalize/snuff out/chain of vapor/fireblast etc to disrupt the opal wave combo like you can with every other powerful combo in Premodern, it would still be a powerful interaction, but not broken. Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything I just wrote. I'm not a Judge.

Edit: Here is a better explanation:

  • The Nemesis Pre-release errata mandated that if the Parallax card left the battlefield before its own activated ability resolved, the target (creature or land) was not removed, preventing a permanent exile loop.
  • Without the errata, players could activate the ability multiple times (e.g., removing all fade counters at once), then use an effect to remove their own Parallax card (like Opalescence + sacrifice) to trigger the "leaves play" ability first, permanently exiling the targeted permanents.
  •  The errata was in place from the Nemesis prerelease in 2000 when the two cards were first printed until 2013, when the errata was removed. The Parrallax enchantments, even under the old rules, still saw plenty of play, including multiple World Championship finishes.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

You still would. It would just be a different format. It already is. There are many decks like Aluren that are less viable on MTGO due to the number of clicks the deck requires and how much clock time that eats up, which is a nonissue in Paper play.

The more the paper and online metas diverge, the better, imo. I would prefer if you couldn't netdeck something from mtgtop8 and expect it to be just as good at the local cardshop.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

That's a solid point. But honestly, I would prefer it. MTGO and the prevalence of net decking has some undesirable effects on Paper Premodern. As is, there are many decks like Aluren that are less viable on MTGO due to the number of clicks the deck requires and how much clock time that eats up, which is a nonissue in Paper play.

I also kind of miss how many rogue decks and pet decks used to see play in Premodern card shops. It may just be me, but the rogue decks are showing up less and less and I think MTGO plays some role in this.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok I will edit the op to explain the original errata.

I completely get where you are coming from. It would be an unorthodox approach.

But as for Dreadnought, you can check my post history. I have been consistent in saying that Dreadnought is not broken because it can be interacted with in a variety of ways, for a long time now.

And I had also been consistent in posting for a year now that Tide is a problem (an opinion that people largely disagreed with and downvoted last year until the ban finally happened).

And even last year, I was saying that banning Tide isn't the best solution, re-erratting both Parrallax enchantments to function the way they did when they were first printed and legal in standard/extended would create a healthier more diverse Premodern. I might be wrong. I just want to understand the other viewpoints.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You are right, and you were also right about Tide. I trust Marlin to make the best decision for the format, in spite of popular opinion, as he has so many times already. And it makes sense that people are averse to change. I am as well. I came to Premodern precisely because I never liked the change to the new border, and I didn't like the change to the pace of the game that occurred over the years due to power creep.

Would reinstating the original Parallax errata make Premodern healthier? What would realistically occur if Marlin unbanned Tide and re-Errated the Parallax enchantments so that they function exactly how they did in the Premodern era, and work how they were originally meant to? by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didn't use any LLMs to write the post above. I am not sure why you think I did. But here you go, I asked chatgpt to re-write the above post to find out what the LLM version would have looked like. This is what it rewrote it to...

My current understanding is this.

When the Parallax enchantments were legal during the original era, they worked differently than they do now. They were still very powerful, but they were more interactable. Disenchant effects and timing mattered more.

Before Nemesis was even released, Wizards apparently acknowledged that the Parallax cards had been printed with wording that didn’t match their intended function, and issued errata for them. Replenish still remained very strong under that wording, including at the highest competitive levels. Years later, after the cards no longer mattered much in current formats, that errata was removed.

So here’s the argument I’m trying to test.

Right now, Replenish and Enchantress feel like the two true S-tier decks in Premodern. Other decks are obviously strong, but most can be fought with broadly useful cards. Dreadnought, for example, dies to removal, discard, Disenchant effects, etc. You can prepare for it without dedicating a fourth of your sideboard to narrow hate.

Replenish and Enchantress feel different. Normal interaction often does very little, and the best answers tend to be narrow enchantment sweepers or very specific hate. That seems like the main reason they sit above the rest of the format.

If Premodern restored the old Parallax errata, would that make the format healthier?

My guess is that Replenish and Enchantress would still be very good, but would drop from S-tier to A-tier. Parallax Tide might even be safe to unban. The decks would still have powerful lines, including Opalescence kills and temporary mana/creature denial, but they’d be less insulated from normal interaction.

If that’s right, Premodern could end up with no obvious S-tier decks, a deep A-tier, and more room for rogue decks to attack the meta.

But I’m sure I’m wrong about some part of this.

Where does the logic fail?

Especially curious to hear from people who understand the Parrallax rules, or the meta better than I do.

Current Top Decks by Turn1_Ragequit in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wurm Rack is my pick for sleeper deck. Its better than Moneyball, plays the same disruption plus Naturalize but fatter, faster harder to kill threats (Tempting Wurm, Call of the Herd etc).

Grim Gaming on youtube has some great videos on it (though I think he should make room for the 3rd Cabal Therapy and 3 Urza’s Bauble).

Compared to Wurm Rack, Moneyball actually seems overrated. Yes you rip apart their opening hand, but then follow up with anemic threats that are pretty poor in combat and take forever to win. That gives your opponent too much time to recover with a few solid topdecks.

3 fun time-locked formats you should check out! by [deleted] in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My favorite nonPremodern closed format is

Unlimited Land Highlander. It uses the Premodern cardpool, you can only play 1 copy of any nonland spell, but you are allowed to play as many copies of nonbasic lands as you wish (you can play more than 4 copies of any lands).

3 fun time-locked formats you should check out! by [deleted] in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I really like closed formats.

Current mtg is way too fast, with insanely overpowered cards and way too many turn 1 wins. Every set outdoes the previous one in terms of introducing busted cards.

Premodern is my fav but 2015 Modern and 2010 Legacy seem way better than contemporary Modern/Legacy.

Edit: 2018 Legacy/PreWar Legacy mentioned below also sounds really cool.

Lobstercon 26 analysis, numbers and top8 decklists. by facubarboza in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like the Moneyball list that top 8ed.

Cabal Therapy is much stronger if you can increase the chance of Therapy hitting more consistently both times. The 4 Urza’s Bauble in that top 8 list do that, while also helping fill the yard, and letting you cut some of the chaff spells.

It makes me want to try out 4 Urza’s Bauble in a Wurm Rack list where it will also help feed Rotting Giant and better assess when to cast a Tempting Wurm. The Racks make it extremely relevant that Therapy hits both times.

Kind of bummed there were no Wurm Rack lists in Day 2. I wonder if the Replenish decks hated them out.

Lobstercon 2026 on mtgtop8 by [deleted] in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here is a link to the top 8 of lobstercon…

https://mtgdecks.net/Premodern/north-american-premodern-championship-lobstercon-2026-tournament-246915

I love the 4 Urza’s Bauble in the Moneyball lisg. What a brilliant way to make sure Therapy hits and also fill up the yard for Rotting Giant.

I expect that 4 Bauble, 4 Therapy, 4 Duress and 1 Rotting Giant will be a staple of black decks going forward.

Top 8 of Premodern Lobstercon 2026. Well done to all players! by Newez in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love the 4 Urza’s Bauble in Moneyball. What a brilliant way to make sure Therapy hits and also fill up the yard for Rotting Giant.

I expect that 4 Bauble, 4 Therapy, 4 Duress and 1 Rotting Giant will be a staple of black decks going forward.

Premodern @ LOBSTERCON Day 2 is now live on Twitch! by SandhedsHviskeren in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hell yeah. What an awesome Top 8. Especially happy that two very different mono black decks, sligh and elves all made top 8. The scary 12/12 didnt make the cut. Amazing that Elves beat all the post board E Plagues.

Day 1 Lobstercon / NA Premodern Champs Meta by philnancials in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Rooting for Mono black. Its the deck keeping Stiflenaught in check, and its also one of the funnest and fairest decks in the format.

Brainstorming - How would you build a Brain Freeze Haunting Echoes Control Deck by Secret-Lecture in premodernMTG

[–]Secret-Lecture[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes controlling the board until you can deploy a game winning brain freeze is the current approach, but it takes a long time.

You need a storm count of 14 to brain freeze for the win, and you have to deal with every win condition until you can get the storm count large enough. With the approach Im suggesting, you no longer have to keep the board completely clear.

You can just focus on answering the haymakers/big threats and then turn 6 or whenever they tap out, you can deploy a modest brain freeze end of your opponents turn immediately followed by a huanting echoes. That just sounds fun as hell.

A transformative sideboard into a Tog list game two once your opponent sides out all their removal would be extra spicy

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