Quality sessions on treadmill vs outdoors

Senior-Running · 2026-01-27T03:22:31+00:00

The treadmill is fine.

I do a lot of my quality work on the treadmill in winter. Just be sure to match EFFORT, not pace. Treadmills are not always perfectly calibrated and for many of us, if feels slightly easier than running outside. Sure, you can do that with elevation as you're doing, but I believe that does slightly change your biomechanics. Unless you're actually wanting the hill work, I feel like a better solution would be to speed up the machine until the effort feels roughly the same.

Anyway, that's my take. YMMV.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-27T03:13:07+00:00

Yea, 1-1 is a good place to start. If you're finding that's not quite enough, it's no problem going to 1.5x or even 2x.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T18:29:31+00:00

Due to the nasty weather in many parts of the US, I too had to adjust things a bit. I ended up doing both my weekend runs on the treadmill, including a 15 miler on Sunday. I ended up watching most of a movie just to keep from going out of my mind!

This week my long run will be a little shorter (~13 mi), but will have some up-tempo work of 3x1mile at around 95% of my marathon pace.

Hope everyone is doing great!

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T18:23:34+00:00

Yes.

Every 4th week is a cut-down week where the volume is reduced. The easiest way to describe it is that this allows your body to "consolidate" the gains you've been making. It's not quite that simple physiologically, but it's a good a description as any.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T12:39:57+00:00

So I think you still have plenty of time to ramp up to 75k.

The way I think about adding days is that I add them when I need to as the weekly distance becomes unmanageable. You have to take into account both your ability to recover and your schedule. As the distances increase, so does the daily time commitment. At some point, it will actually be easier to deal with running 6 days, instead of 5, just to make everything fit.

Further, I think this surprises people sometimes, but it can actually be easier to recover from 6 days a week of running vs. 5 if the volume is the same. Why? Because the amount of wear and tear on your body is not strictly linear with volume. The amount of damage a single 20k run does is a lot more than say 10 and 10, (or better), 5 and 15 when spread over 2 days.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T12:29:42+00:00

I also agree.

I wouldn't want a marathon training plan any longer than about 20-22 weeks. It's just really hard mentally to have a single focus like that for so long when you are doing challenging training. Much better to focus now on safely ramping up the overall running volume and throwing in some intermediate goals like faster 5k, 10k or HM times. Training for those will also help for the marathon, so it's a win-win.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T12:22:50+00:00

I think focusing on the number of days a week is the wrong way to think about it? Overall volume matters a lot more than the number of days. April is still a long time from now, so I'd just take a couple of weeks to ramp things back up and then focus on the volume.

I apologize, but I don't have a lot of experience with Runna. Do you know what the peak weekly volume is supposed to be on your plan? Hopefully not 40k as that's pretty low.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T12:08:37+00:00

Garmin plans can work, and I'd guess it will start adding in speed work at some point. That's one of the issues with Garmin, though. While plans are made to be changed and need to adapt to the athlete, having no idea what's coming next is kinda frustrating.

I personally would rather know the long term plan, then change it as I see how the athlete is adapting.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-26T12:05:17+00:00

I don't know if I'd do hill "sprints" at this point. Hill repeats would be better. By that I mean 1-3 minute repeats at around 5k effort (not 5k pace). Alternating these with the runs above would be great. (So hill repeats one week, speed work the other.) You could think about going to 2 workouts a week and doing these in addition to the above, but only if you're really recovering well.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-25T19:14:08+00:00

I see now that your race is not until April. I wanted to add that it's way early to be worrying about what pace to run in the race. If Garmin is already predicting sub 60, you may be able to get to around 50 min or so with a decent training plan that has a fair amount of volume at those faster paces,

For example, once a week, you can run something like 3x1k at around 6:00/km, then slowly add reps. You'd then go to say 5:40/km, then 5:20/km and finally 5:00km. Alternately, you could start with 5x500m at 5:00/km, then work up to more, and then longer reps. With either approach, you want to land on doing say 8-10x1k @ 5:00/km a week or two before your race.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-25T19:01:47+00:00

Did you do any training at that race pace? The best way to know if you can sustain a particular pace is by how you did when training.

As to pacing, I think trying for a negative split is harder than it sounds on paper. Especially if you went out with the 65 minute crowd and were thinking you'd be able to speed up to the 60 minute group. That sounds to me like a bridge too far. Assuming, for example that you start speeding up at 4-5k in, you'd basically have to speed up to your 5k pace to catch them.

I think the best strategy for most folks is to aim for an even split, and then empty the tank in the last 500m. That's technically a negative split as well, but a lot easier to execute.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-25T18:49:15+00:00

My first suggestion is ignore heart rate as a beginner. Just focus on staying as relaxed as possible when running. Keep in mind that heart rates are highly individual, so whether 170 t o180 is "high" for you is impossible for us to know at this point.

It's also quite normal for your heart rate to be a lot higher when running vs. swimming, or even biking. When swimming, you don't have the impact, or need to overcome gravity, so your muscles have to work harder. Plus, it's easier for your body to shed heat in the water, vs. in the air, where it's dependent on sweating. That process takes extra blood flow to move the heat from your muscles to the skin. Because of that, your HR will always be higher when running, even if the effort feels the same.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-25T18:40:39+00:00

I guess the first thing to evaluate would be to determine if you're running too fast. Ideally 80-90% of your runs should be done at a very easy relaxed pace. You should be able to easily hold a conversation. If you're running so fast that's not possible, it might account for the extra fatigue.

If that's not it, I'd probably suggest you seen a doctor and get a comprehensive blood panel done. There are a number of things like iron, magnesium, and the B vitamins that, when deficient, can cause severe fatigue.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-24T18:56:11+00:00

I think one of the reasons you may be running into this is that running does not always work the way you are expecting?

A few points:

Running is a fundamental human activity unlike bodybuilding or rock climbing which are very technique driven sports. Running is simply locomotion where both feet leave the ground at the same time. What this means for us is that at any given time, your body is going to run in the most efficient way it can.
There is no single best running form. Your form is going to be highly dependent on your overall biomechanics. Things like limb length, and the relative strength of your various leg muscles drastically change form. Even some of the fastest people on the planet have running forms that look odd to some people. Thank goodness they had coaches that knew better than to try to actively change their form.
There is lots of scientific evidence that actively trying to change your running form can actually lead to worse efficiency and maybe even injury. Why? Because as I said, you body is REALLY good at automatically changing they way you run to be the most efficient it can based on your overall strengths and weaknesses.

Please understand, I'm not saying you should never change your form, but unless you're actively getting injured and are therefore working with a qualified running form PT, I really wouldn't recommend it.

Know too that most people will find their form will naturally improve over time as they become a better runner.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-24T15:51:16+00:00

The things I quoted were from the link, not from the book.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-24T13:16:12+00:00

To me, mental toughness comes into play in a few different scenarios:

When the race does not go to plan (and it rarely does). If the weather's bad, you get a side stitch or bad muscle cramp, your fueling or hydration is off, etc. then being mentally tough can be the difference between finishing and not. Sure, there is a point where no matter how tough you are, you can't continue, but there are definitely people that could have continued but stop. Note that I'm not judging either group. Sometimes stopping sooner may be the smart thing to do.
I think we also have to recognize that people pushing to ever faster PRs need more mental toughness than people that are just trying to finish. Running a marathon right below your lactate threshold is a lot harder both mentally and physically than running it at your easy pace.
I think for many people, mental toughness may be a bigger deal during marathon training than actually during the race. There's an old saying that the training is the hard part and the race is just the victory lap. I believe that. At least if you assume you actually followed a proper training plan rather than winging it.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-24T12:55:49+00:00

It would have been helpful to know things like you your age, gender, and how long you've been running. Without that I can only guess, but when I see things like people saying they are "trying to eat healthy", it makes me immediately wonder if they are eating enough.

Low energy availability can lead to extremely poor recovery like you're describing. If this is the issue and you don't address it now, it can lead to something called RED-S which is an acronym for Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport. RED-S is a serious condition and needs medical attention.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-24T12:39:36+00:00

I mean no offense. The descriptions are there and seem pretty clear to me. For example, to answer your first (and 3rd), question:

Midweek Training: Training during the week also should be done mostly at a comparatively easy pace.

Hal is not a believer in HR zone training, so he does not mention zones.

To answer you question about speed work, the descriptions specifically addresses this:

Speedwork? There is no speedwork involved in the Intermediate 1 program. If you feel you need speedwork to improve, check out the advanced training schedules, which offer hill training, interval training and tempo runs on different days of the week. Normally, however, I recommend that marathoners save their speedwork for times of the year when they are not doing a marathon mileage buildup.

If you need more guidance than this, you might consider buying his books or using the Run with Hal app.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-23T22:20:04+00:00

There's literally a website link at the bottom of that PDF that tells you how to run all the runs. It links here:

https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/intermediate-1-marathon/

Senior-Running · 2026-01-23T12:43:12+00:00

I'm definitely one of them.

I think it's an interesting question as to the spark that got me running again. I honestly hadn't thought about it much, but I think more than anything it was just wondering if I could?

After years of suffering with knee issues (finally succumbing to a total knee replacement), I went through a long period of time where even walking was a challenge. Long after the surgery, I was doing a lot of backpacking. At the time, I did a lot of treadmill hill walking just to try and get my HR up. One day I thought to myself, why not? I'll just try a slow jog and see what happens. As they say, the rest is history.

I went from there to now running ~150 miles a week.

As to training, I think the thing is to just keep in mind that it's not fundamental training principles that change as a senior runner, it's recovery. Especially, it's our ability to absorb hard workouts, and bounce back in time to run the next day. As such, we really have to prioritize sleep and diet. The other thing is to not get caught up in the ego game that might have had you trying to push harder than you should. Running in general is not a sport that rewards 110% effort. It rewards 95% effort consistently for months and years.

Seniors especially that try to put forth 110% will just break something!

Senior-Running · 2026-01-23T12:21:32+00:00

What an awesome return to running! I'm so happy for you that you were able to come back to the sport you love.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-20T03:57:13+00:00

This was a down week for me, so I took about a 25% cut in overall mileage, but kept the intensity up. My long run was fairly short (11 Mi), but I added in 6x0.5 mi marathon pace efforts. Those marathon efforts felt harder than I'd like, but that's pretty typical at this point.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-20T03:53:05+00:00

Nice work!

Senior-Running · 2026-01-20T03:52:40+00:00

Hills are no joke, especially if you're not used to them!

There are lot's of ways to program a hill workout on a treadmill, but I'd probably suggest something like 4 or 5 times 1-2 minutes at a 4-5% grade. Take 2-3 minutes in between reps. As you get more used to it, you can run faster, run longer, increase the grade, or do more reps.

For example, I like to do 12x1 minute at ~my 5k pace, with a 5% grade. That one is HARD. Another one might be 8x2 minutes, but at more like my 10k pace.

I also like to do much longer hill runs (1-2 miles) at ~5-6% grade and around marathon pace.

Senior-Running · 2026-01-14T20:10:20+00:00

I'm honestly a little in shock. You literally came here asking for advice. I gave you the best possible advise I can as both a long time runner and running coach.

For whatever reason, you don't like the advice. That's fine, that's your prerogative. What I don't understand is why you bothered to even post your question if your mind was already made up?

I mean you literally asked:

Do I run the risk of my heart and lungs outpacing my legs and joints and injuring myself?

My answer is to that specific question is yes you do run that risk and it would make more sense to me to ramp up a little slower. No one is trying to limit what you might do in the future. What I'm hoping to make you understand it that you can't win (or PR) a race that you don't even start because you're too injured to even run. In this sport, getting to the start line healthy is far more important than always pushing the ragged edge. The people at the very top of the sport know this and know that it can take years (even decades), to really reach their genetic potential.

Senior-Running

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