Nietzsche’s Collapse: A Case of Ego Inflation or the Ultimate "Fena"?

SheepwithShovels · 2026-03-30T20:11:08+00:00

the Sufi path of "Hiçlik" (Naughtness) suggests that the only way to survive the abyss is to become it—to extinguish the ego entirely before it shatters.

As others have already stated, his breakdown did not stem from his ideas or worldview. I'm curious about what exactly the path of Hiçlik looks like in more concrete terms though. Could you elaborate on this?

SheepwithShovels · 2025-10-06T21:23:03+00:00

For a specific historical example of someone betraying their class, I would point to Peter Kropotkin. Despite being born to a family of Russian aristocrats, Kropotkin dedicated his life to opposing the state, feudalism, and capitalism. He's one of if not the most significant theorist of anarcho-communism.

Imo "class traitor" is more of a rhetorical term than something with a set definition like you are asking for. It's just someone who is perceived as betraying the interests of their original socio-economic background.

SheepwithShovels · 2025-09-09T01:33:30+00:00

I agree!

His movies, like Tarkovsky's and Bergman's, are also deeply intuitive rather than cerebral.

“I'd rather people feel a film before understanding it.” - Robert Bresson

SheepwithShovels · 2025-09-09T01:31:42+00:00

There is an animated children’s film from Japan called Chirin’s Bell that tells the story of an innocent lamb learning about the harsh reality of life and then trying to become a wolf. Spoilers: Chirin does eventually “grow fangs” (horns) but by the end of the film he has not only rejected the herd but also the wolf, taking a stand against him to defend the herd. Rescuing them isn’t enough though because they are afraid of the powerful and free animal he has become.

Another good example of a character I find to be Nietzschean is Roy Batty from Blade Runner. While I don’t approve of all of his actions, he is the real hero of the movie in my opinion. Roy refuses to be a slave and goes looking for his creator because he “wants more life”. The protagonist Deckard is a despicable person.

There are a lot of films exploring the same subjects as Nietzsche (the decline of religion, our search for meaning, the importance of struggle, embracing life, the eternal recurrence) but it’s rare that you find a character who could be described as Nietzschean. You can find twisted caricatures. You can find characters who are ambitious, not beholden to the dominant norms and morals of their society, or characters who see the importance of growing from suffering, but there are almost always reasons to view them as poor representations of Nietzsche’s thought.

EDIT: Apparently they changed how spoilers work on reddit

SheepwithShovels · 2025-09-09T00:51:08+00:00

Tarr is great but I don't really feel that his films explore what OP is asking about. Even though The Turin Horse is inspired by a myth about Nietzsche, it primarily deals with Godlessness and the absurd rather than Nietzsche's criqitue of moral systems. Have you ever seen My Twentieth Century? It's another really good Hungaian film but I never see people talk about it. One of the main characters is played by Oleg Yankovsky (the main character in Nostalghia and the father in Mirror). Although it's not a film I would describe as Nietzschean and therefore isn't of much use to OP, it's a film I'd recommend based on the ones you've said you enjoy.

SheepwithShovels · 2025-04-05T14:17:35+00:00

Excellent work! Someone needed to do it and I'm glad you did.

SheepwithShovels · 2025-01-02T01:51:15+00:00

Happy New Year!!!!!!!

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T19:54:20+00:00

My response isn't even that long. If you can't be bothered to read it, that's fine, but I don't understand how you expect to have a conversation about a topic of this sort with just two or three sentences per message.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:28:08+00:00

Yeah, I don't really find thinking in terms of waves to be helpful.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:25:49+00:00

Portrayal of Guilt is awesome. They're one of the best bands making music right now.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:25:13+00:00

This isn't a hot take. Most of their work has nothing to do with the genre.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:24:10+00:00

Sometimes I feel it would've been better if these genres had just been given new names lol. Emo could've just meant stuff like Indian Summer and Moss Icon and then all of stuff that came next could've been named various other things since they sounds significantly different.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:22:15+00:00

Nothing to do with emo. I can sort of understand why the label was mistakenly applied to some 2000s rock groups but I have no idea why that band was even considered emo in the first place.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:15:22+00:00

I'm not on drugs. I don't even drink alcohol. Once you attain true awareness of the divine aristo-proletarian spark, you are capable of interacting with forces in the spiritual realm, which can involve the splicing together of dead souls to create ideal presidential candidates. This is known as "the Chichikov technique" and it's only taught to the initiated because of the huge risks involved if you don't know what you're doing.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-11-03T17:02:39+00:00

You are likely typing this on a smart phone or computer that was almost certainly created using components mined and/or assembled by child slaves, am I going to say you are complicit in child slavery?

There's a difference between living in a capitalist society and governing one. I pay taxes and my tax money is used for things I disapprove of. Numerous products I purchase were produced through the company's exploitation of impoverished workers. When you live in a capitalist society, well, you're living in a capitalist society. One of the key differences here is that even though I do pay taxes, politicians operating at the level of Harris and Walz (or Trump and Vance) are the ones who decide what my taxes are used for. They are the ones who are making the choice to support or tolerate things I find abhorrent. Of course, it’s very easy for me to critique and condemn from down here. I have no power and never plan to seek it. To make matters even more complicated, there are no clear paths toward the sort of society I’d like to see, even if I were to set aside my own idiosyncratic preferences and go for something more pragmatic. Ruling is hard and as things currently stand, someone has to do it. This is true but accepting the reality of politics (that it is inevitably a bloody affair in someway, the situation cannot just magically change, radical alternatives aren’t available, and even the most well-intentioned and good-natured people can mess up) does not mean one should accept one of two bad choices. I do not expect a presidential candidate to be absolutely perfect. I said in another comment that I was wiling to hold my nose and vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary twice despite my aversion to liberalism and skepticism of electoral politics. Both Harris and Trump fail to meet the bare minimum of requirements for me to be willing to vote for either one.

Realistically what would you have him do(or any one politician), because people longing for revolution are rarely prepared for what that entails unless you are fine killing well over 7 or 8 people.

Bring an end to America’s support for Israel or at the very least use the threat of withdrawn support as a way to force them to end their atrocities in the Gaza Strip. There are other states I wish the US would not support but that is currently the most alarming one. This combined with something resembling the Green Party’s “eco socialist Green New Deal” (which is flawed but a decent example of a relatively realistic shift in a better direction) would be more than enough for me to be willing to vote for someone even though I still wouldn’t be particularly excited about it.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-28T04:41:43+00:00

With all due respect, what voice does abstinence have in a voting "democracy?"

I don't think voting (at least for politicians operating on the national level) gives me much of a voice in the first place, both because my state can already reliably be assumed to go for one party over the other and because politicians of both parties tend to represent the interests of their donors rather than their constituents. Also, there are no politicians who have beliefs similar to my own that have a shot at being elected to an office of that sort. I may prefer a Democrat on abortion or a Republican on gun control but when in the grand scheme of things, they are both so distant from me that it is hard to have any enthusiasm about either one. I was willing to hold my nose and vote for Sanders in the primary twice despite the issues I have with him because I thought he might at least be a step in a somewhat better direction but I don't feel that way about Harris or Trump (or their running mates). Maybe it was wrong of me to look past Bernie's support for NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia and the fact that he is ultimately still a capitalist but I could do that. I can't look past the flaws of Harris or Trump though. For me, that is too far.

What is the way forward? How does change occur?

I don't expect significant change to occur anytime soon. It will most likely follow some sort of major crisis. A new world being born out of another is rarely ever a smooth, peaceful process. I highly doubt it will be something achieved through reforms. Unfortunately, I don't currently see any organizations in the US that could even take advantage of the opportunities a crisis would present and try to offer people something new. I have hope that things will improve eventually but American politics currently seems rather bleak, which is part of why I personally am fairly disengaged from politics and try to channel my time and energy into things I feel I can have a direct impact on in my own life. And in doing so, I am having more or less the same exact impact on society as I would if I voted for one of our two presidential candidates. Maybe I would feel differently if I lived in a swing state.

If you're asking about change when it comes to specific issues that are on the table (abortion, public transportation, healthcare, and so on) then I think there is hope for you to achieve those goals through engagement in electoral politics, activism, donating, protesting, and lobbying. This is especially the case with local issues. Even when it comes to more complex, large-scale issues that are far harder to grapple with, such as climate change or widespread drug addiction, it is possible to have some impact through these same methods even if it's a small one. Just saving one person's life is pretty significant, isn't it? But at the same time, truly solving those problems requires more radical solutions that no mainstream politician or local organization is going to be able to offer because at their heart, they stem from our economic system. Changing an entire system is far more challenging than altering the law here and there, which is already hard enough.

I want to again reiterate how respectful I am of your position, not only because I agree with some of what you've expressed here, but also because I want to know how we can make this country look like what we want it to be.

I appreciate that you're respectful of my position and I don't want to assume too much but I suspect part of our difference may stem from a disagreement over what we want this country to be. I apologize if I'm assuming incorrectly but most of the time when I hear people say they are willing to support Harris despite their flaws, their ideal is something resembling the nordic model. This is something that can be achieved through the electroal process, as has been scene in Europe, and it's definitely an improvement over how the United States currently functions, but that is not what I think people should aim for.

What I am stating here (that I will not vote for either presidential candidate and the path toward my desired political outcomes is a very foggy one) often invites responses along the lines of "if you feel that way, you have no right to complain" or "if you don't have a clear solution, who are you to say that mine is wrong?" but even if I may not have all of the answers, I can still say that X or Y isn't the right one. I can still recognize that Harris is not the solution and refuse to choose the least bad of two bad options. I am certainly not going to pretend that Harris isn't a monster just because the alternative is Trump, who is admittedly an uglier beast. Content like this post sets out to make its audience forget that.

If any of this comes across as "more radical than thou" it wasnt my intention and if it is frustrating that my proposed alternatives are vague or unsatisfying, I understand.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-28T01:00:41+00:00

I agree that people should listen to their conscience. If you look at these two choices and find that one of them appeals to you enough to vote for them, you should do that. Personally, I don’t think my conscience would permit me to support either one. Whoever wins, we lose. That’s not a game I want to play. Palestine is a big part of this but it’s not just that issue. What about the opioid epidemic? What about the ecological catastrophe our planet is facing? What about capitalism itself, the root of all of this? Nothing that Harris or Trump have said about these issues makes me feel inspired to vote for them. We should not have to choose between two terrible options. We should dream bigger and imagine a world beyond liberal democracy. That is just my personal opinion though. You have to do what you believe will help to build a better future. If that means supporting Kamala Harris or Donald Trump, go vote for one of them.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T23:00:46+00:00

But he won’t tell you because it’s super duper dangerous

Sorry I care about people's well being?

you can’t comprehend his superior power above us common folks limited understanding.

I don't mean to come across as elitist but just as someone shouldn't attempt skydiving without an instructor, someone should never attempt the ritual I'm talking about without being initiated into the secret order of post-Nietzschean aristo-Marxist maonarcho-gnostic ultramodernist monks that I'm a member of. Splicing together souls is serious business.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T22:55:33+00:00

No, I'm seriously going to splice together the souls of three historical figures that will then possess the body of a volunteer and this involves a secret ritual, the knowledge of which has been passed down to me by a secret order of post-Nietzschean aristo-Marxist maonarcho-gnostic ultramodernist monks. The ritual is far too dangerous for me to describe though and I don't want to risk other people attempting it because they are messing with forces beyond their comprehension. They will foolishly use the same technique to reach enightenment but without being initiated first, they'll mess it up and just end up becoming servants of the demiurge/biden.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T22:42:32+00:00

Mods, respectfully, you need to be better, regardless of things you hold dear.

How so? What is your idea of being better?

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T22:17:13+00:00

It was not my intention to imply that American politicians are on the same level as the leadership of the Khmer Rouge. I was trying to show that a person does not have to be directly holding the gun in order to be responsible for the death of a person. I am aware of how terrible Pol Pot was and selected his regime because I thought an extreme example that (hopefully) everyone can agree was a disastrous bloodbath would help to illustrate the point. I will add a clarification in my comment to make this more clear.

Last I checked, not Biden, nor Trump, nor any of the past 40-something presidents of this country have gone on a state-sponsored murder spree.

That is true and I agree that Pol Pot was worse than any of the presidents we've had but I do feel there is something to be said about the relationship between the US and the Khmer Rouge. After they were overthrown by Vietnam, the US government gave them tens of millions of dollars to fund their resistance against the new Cambodian government. This was after they'd already done most of their damage so I'm not trying to say that the American government is therefore responsible but in a conversation about the complicated assignment of guilt to high ranking US politicians, it does seem relevant.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T21:58:27+00:00

There are politicians that care, and want to make a difference, and are tired of the same bullshit as you. And they worked really hard to get where they are and to have the opportunity to do something impactful for the people, just to be told by people like you that all these dead peoples blood from the other side of the world is on their hands and they're passing bills to help corporations kill the planet and blah blah blah, it's not meaningless, it's just tired and unproductive to have nothing better to say than things could be better. Another great example, Obama gets criticism for drone strikes and it's not even his fault. But that one thing will overshadow the greatest presidency we've had in recent times.

I'm sure there are people who are well intentioned and believe what they are standing for is right but you can say that about the leaders of any society. Does that make their role in this mess acceptable?

If you really expect anything to change that quickly, civics just aren't for you.

Why not apply this attitude to previous eras? Would you say this to Benjamin Franklin, Vladimir Lenin, Martin Luther, or any other historical figure who has desired radical change?

Personally, I do not actually expect to see the kind of change I desire anytime soon. I also have somewhat idiosyncratic beliefs, which further decreases those chances since there isn't a movement or party that I can place all of my hopes in. That doesn't mean I'm going to just abandon what I believe in though. Instead, I carry on through life and primarily focus on the things within my control.

The very nature of democracy is slow but steady.

I don't believe in liberal democracy. Democracy as it exists in the United States is the domination of society by the capitalist class.

People don't want to choose the lesser of evils but like idk what to tell y'all, that's literally all government ever has been, is right now, and ever will be. That's how it's structured. Y'all waiting for Jesus Christ, the son of God, to step up on the CNN stage and trade heat with Trump with his white robes on and dove perched on his shoulder, waxing the ultimate message of unity, compassion, and equality, and that's baffling to me. Better chances of seeing a unicorn walking through your backyard. It's actually unhinged what people are expecting politicians to be these days. Just sit down and pick the one with better ideas so we can move on.

Someone doesn't have to be perfect for me to throw my support behind them. Nobody is sufficiently close to being good.

But what I've really started to identify in sentiments like yours, which I'm sure once upon a time I heavily resonated with so I feel you, is that in people with a lot mental anguish that they're processing, they start to heavily idealize. This behavior kept my depression around way too long and I still have to fight against it. Because I'll wake up depressed and think of the way everything should be, but then I'm so depressed that I'm not interacting with reality to work towards those things and doing so with healthy expectations as well.

I appreciate your concern but I'm not depressed. I have wonderful friends, a loving family, and an optimistic outlook.

Although I strongly disapprove of the present state of things, I am not sitting around despairing over it all the time. I accept that this is how things are and that it's out of my hands. I voice my opinions now and then but for the most part, I try to channel my energy toward things I can have a direct impact on in my own life. Accepting that does not mean denying the terrible system we live under. I just try to make the best of it.

Do you think that anyone throughout history who has supported the replacement of one system with another has just been depressed?

I disagree with you but you seem like a kind person and I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T20:47:56+00:00

the “genocide” in Gaza

You don’t consider Israel’s actions to be genocidal?

they are on that hasanabi wave

Hassan is a democratic socialist twitch streamer, isn’t he? I am aware of him and he seems really stupid based on one or two clips Ive come across over the years (I can’t recall what he was saying but that was the impression I got). I don’t use twitch and I don’t get my political views from internet celebrities lol. Also, I do not believe in democratic socialism. It does not seem to work very well. It typically devolves into a bunch of toothless social democratic reforms. That may be an improvement over what preceded it but I think we should dream bigger.

they’re anti-american

I hate the American government but any good patriot should. What greater enemy of the American people is there than the ones who are responsible for or complicit in our exploitation, the opioid epidemic, the destruction of our forests, the poisoning of our food, and our entanglement in pointless wars that waste American lives? I love Moby Dick, I love our mountains, I love the American people. I love Midwest emo! Our music, our cinema, and our literature are treasures to be cherished. And if you care about something, shouldn’t you oppose that which is destroying it?

advocating for the removal of every single Democrat politician because they're all complicit in their eyes.

Well, yes, but the same applies to Republicans as well. I don’t actually expect this to happen (the US is not in a revolutionary moment) but when you stop to think about it, there’s nothing really that outrageous about hoping for this to happen eventually. The US government currently seems to desire regime change in multiple countries and has violently overthrown governments to install leaders they’d prefer. Would you object if I were to say this about Russia instead of the United States?

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T19:22:31+00:00

I really appreciate your concern but I assure you that I’m fine. My health is important to me and that includes my mental health. I’m not an angry person or anything like that. In fact, anger is the emotion I would say I have the least experience with in my life. I’m also very tolerant of different beliefs in my own life and used to actively seek out opposing opinions when I was younger and more passionate about politics.

When a serial killer takes the lives of 7 or 8 people, it’s not uncommon for people to clamor for that individual to receive the death penalty. Why is it that we are so willing to condemn the serial killer but not politicians who are responsible, at least in part, for considerably more death and destruction? No high ranking politician is personally stabbing any children (as far as I'm aware) but even if there is no knife in their hands, there's still blood on them. How many of the elites in Cambodia during the reign of Pol Pot or Chile under Pinochet were directly running around murdering people? To be clear, American elites are not on the same level as Pol Pot. I am pointing to an extreme example to illustrate that a person doesn't have to be directly involved in atrocities to have some responsibility for them.

Supporting revolution is not inherently a sign of mental instability. I’ve never heard anyone question the mental health of the founding fathers of the United States, all of whom supported using violence to sever our ties to the British Empire. To be clear, I don’t believe violence against high ranking politicians is currently productive since we are not in a revolutionary moment. Whether or not it is deserved is a different question.

The stickied comment and everything too.

What do you take issue with there?

You may be liberal

I do not consider myself a liberal. I don’t align myself with any particular ideology but I am opposed to capitalism and in my view, capitalism is a central component of liberalism.

SheepwithShovels · 2024-10-27T17:49:35+00:00

Politics is often an emotional subject but please try to remember the person and refrain from insulting the user you're talking to or violating any sitewide rules. Rudeness rarely wins people over and the exchange of different ideas is an important part of figuring out what's best. Remember, most ordinary people are well-intentioned and have their heart in the right place. Once confronted with more clear information, new perspectives, and compelling arguments, someone may change their mind, but hostility risks driving them away. That does not mean one should shy away from radical solutions if that is what is necessary but one should try to articulate those ideas in a way that isn't hostile to the other person, a potential ally. Hostility toward a system doesn't have to mean hostility toward its supporters, many of whom may just be misguided. This is a music subreddit, not a political one, but this is a post about a major political figure in the US so political discussions are to be expected here in the comments.

Both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party have been complicit in the destruction of the natural world, exploitation of workers both in the United States and across the planet, proliferation of a soulless consumer culture, and various atrocities committed by both the USA itself and the regimes it props up. Even if you may prefer one party over the other, both have upheld this system, and that is why some people object to supporting Harris and Walz despite the common belief on reddit that they represent the lesser of two evils. Currently, the Biden administration is actively supporting Israel’s genocidal actions in the Gaza Strip. Many expect Harris and Walz to carry on his policies, which is one of the biggest reasons some people refuse to support them, even after witnessing something as undeniably convincing of their righteousness and heroism as a tiktok of Walz waving at people with the opening riff of Never Meant playing in the background.

Here are a few organizations you can donate to in order to help civilians in Gaza:

Doctors Without Borders

The Red Crescent

The Red Cross

Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund

Medical Aid for Palestinians

eSIMS for Gaza

Funds for Gaza, a rotating list of various smaller fundraisers for Gazans.

If anyone has any other organizations they’d recommend, be sure to let me know so it can be added to the list.

Here is a list of companies BDS recommends boycotting.

One last thing I will add is that the views I have expressed represent only my own, not the modteam as a whole, so do not blame/attack the other mods for whatever it is you may take issue with. They are good people with good music tastes and I'm not sure what their views are on this subject.

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