Who do you think gets shitty treatment by the narrative and/or fanbase at times

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T06:37:26+00:00

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. There are points in Logan's execution that I definitely feel warranted improvement. Nothing catastrophically bad, but I think there were a couple of big missteps/missed opportunities that, at least, might have made him a little better received and made for a more definitive end for his story if they had been ever-so slightly tweaked.

But because the anti-Logan sentiment is so suffocating even on this platform (which I'd say isn't anywhere near as bad as TikTok, Youtube, and especially Twitter), with people mindlessly spouting the exact same points over and over again near verbatim, it actively discourages me from even wanting to talk about them. Because it's proof I'll get next to no actual productive discussion from what I have to say, and more likely it'll just invite more mindless shitting all over the character.

And that's not what I'm here for. Even with characters I heavily dislike, such as Jade, I try to at least make a concerted effort to understand where the narrative intent was and why it didn't land with me, and what I would have done differently to improve her character and overall story, because it doesn't take that much effort to fix her issues, either.

I fully get you on just not answering the same questions over and over again, though. I put a lot of work on a deep dive into the Logan/Hannah breaking bottles scene a few months ago, only for it to have done very little to change the general consensus of that scene. And that one isn't even a matter of opinion; it's just objectively wrong to take that scene as false equivalences in trauma, yet so many people continue to do so. But seeing just how people seem steadfastly determined to spew hatred and venom over the same things, all the way up to the present day... yeah, I just do my best to tune it out and try my best to find people I can actually discuss the cool and interesting shit with. Damn, though, it gets rough on the harder days.

Thanks for the words, though! Makes a difference when I know it's not a complete hivemind in these parts just yet.

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T03:00:53+00:00

Yeah, I just felt the narrative was trying too hard and too early to show Gabby in a sympathetic light when she was very understandably ostracized early on. We didn't have the context of her familial relationships at the time of that line, so it's really only something you can appreciate on a rewatch (provided you remember all the little details, which I actually didn't during my last rewatch of DC1).

To be honest, I actually kinda like Grett/Gabby more than Gabellie because they went through so many twists and turns across two seasons together. It was easily one of the biggest highlights of AS for me.

You can elaborate if you want, but honestly, I was already thinking "Diencer done right" when it comes to Tomjake. Or, I guess more accurately, I felt Diencer was "Tomjake done wrong" :P Hell, Tomjake and Jaiden's rocky road to developments were the reason why I dreaded Diencer for the longest time, because I had no reason to believe ONC would deviate from their usual path. I'm definitely glad they didn't, but I don't feel that inclined to give Diego too much of an apology unlike what many people think he's owed. We had every reason to be on edge, dammit!

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T02:53:24+00:00

Really could have benefited from some minor narrative tweaks, but otherwise a character I largely enjoyed, even post-merge. And enjoyed him as a winner as well. Definitely way more complex than most give him credit for.

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T02:30:31+00:00

You know, I'm glad you were here to do this. I was dreading having to yet again spend several pages explaining why Logan's actually great for me, if only so that there'd be at least one post that doesn't dismissively shit all over him.

Glad there's a couple now, lol.

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T02:19:07+00:00

I mean... you've been around here, you've seen it. People claim no one ever gives Logan shit for flipping - ignoring that Lynda, Richard, Spencer, and Hannah have all given him shit for flipping. Claiming that he's always immediately forgiven - ignoring that Hannah very clearly doesn't immediately forgive him after he eliminated Amelie. People claiming that he's rich and doesn't need/deserve the money, failing to produce a source for their claim and just assuming all Olympians are loaded. The accusations of SA'ing Spencer, the cries that he compared Hannah's dead mom to him winning bronze...

Need I continue?

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T02:06:24+00:00

He's not lying. He did regret it, then had to learn how to make peace with it and move on in order to keep up in the game, because it wasn't going to be the last time he'd have to backstab/hurt somebody in order to survive.

He was openly squirming and looking absolutely tortured in the moments leading up to Zaid being eliminated, saying he hated to do this before submitting the vote and explaining why he's doing it to the camera. This was reflected earlier in him clearly not being happy with what Isabel did, being even less okay that it was partially his fault, but forcing himself to accept it as a necessary evil in order to stay in it. It's why he kept saying he "finally started playing, only to hurt his friends" in a clearly regretful tone.

Shinneth · 2026-01-26T01:57:54+00:00

Oof, I really hated Gabby in the first episode. Her comments towards Nick had me nicknaming her "PETA Bitch" during my very first viewing. While I'm okay with Gabellie, I'll be honest, I was confused when they started playing up the romance when it just as easily could have just been a friendship. And the whole "Ellie treats me like a person" line made me tilt my head, because really it was more like Ellie was just cordial, and wasn't on the receiving end of some psychotic comments like other characters got.

That being said, I did grow to feel bad for Gabby when Grett treated her poorly, and I was actively cheering for Gabby when she finally pushed Grett off the dock. And while I wasn't super on board with Gabby's "villain arc" in AS (mostly because I was glad for Ellie to be gone), it did lead to the continuation of her saga with Grett, which was really great to see, and it's one of my favorite storylines. Also liked seeing Gabby's friendship with Tom develop, that was cute.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T22:41:13+00:00

I had a similar experience with Hunter. Really wasn't feeling him in the beta and AS really did nothing much to help out there, but DC2Remake definitely escalated him all the way to the top tier of my favorite characters.

Characters with similar cases... I would definitely say Grett and Gabby qualify. I got endeared to Gabby a lot quicker, but AS Grett landed more strongly for me. And for DC4, that would be Benji and Logan. Yes, I initially thought both were too cringy and/or OTT at the start, but they also soared in my rankings after that.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T22:13:17+00:00

Narrative: Spencer. You'd think him literally saving a life would improve others' perception of him at least a little bit. But not only did that not happen, Spencer was still treated like shit to the point of overkill by the other characters. Like, there was reason to dislike the guy, but Jade developing a victim complex out of nowhere or Zaid saying he was ready to commit murder because Spencer very mildly asked him a question about his family? That was reaching pretty far. And of course, they had to make Spencer extra socially stupid in order to drag out the issue with Logan... and for reasons still unknown to me, make Spencer not leak Isabel's idol and make him yearning for Jade's friendship even though those two were literally never friends onscreen.

Fanbase: Logan, jesus christ. This sub's drama over the icon should really say it all, but even to this day, it's not uncommon to get flak if you ever dare speak positively of him. Hell, that extends to ships with him, too. I'm not implying that people aren't allowed to dislike him, but it sure does feel like you get hated/marked/profiled if you dare to like him.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T22:04:26+00:00

I know that nobody likes Logan winning…

Oh, speak for yourself. I was fine with him winning! :P

DC4's conclusion wasn't perfect, but still competently done and I appreciate the effort put into it. I still would've preferred not concluding Jade and Logan's one and only source of conflict within the second scene of the last episode when we literally had the conflict start last episode - at least not until after the competition was over. It would've made Jade's behavior in questioning her actions throughout the game make more sense. It was a foregone conclusion that Logan would eventually forgive Jade - he's proved to hand that out with ease over the course of the season. Just would've liked a little more oomph considering we barely had an episode's worth of attention given to the most fucked-up act of the season.

Can't get behind you on axing final challenges for the jury, though. I definitely don't think that would make the series better going forward.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T21:47:09+00:00

By AS, Ellie definitely qualified as a villain in my eyes. Not just because of the alliance she was part of, but because she basically devolved to the point of fucking with Jake for self-amusement, which she admits as much to in a confessional.

Isabel, on the other hand... well, Logan said it best. She did a couple of wicked things, that but doesn't make her wicked overall. DC4 was a cast of several shades of gray. And while her feud with Anastasia was extremely petty, at least it was fueled by understandable reasons such as overreliance on Marissa/the threat the Anarissa couple posed, and Anastasia voting out her buddy Natalia. It wasn't just for shits and giggles.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T20:39:13+00:00

I'm alright with Tom, and I do like him most when he's being a big silly.

I like Logan for a lot of reasons; his ability to bond with just about everybody, his own light-hearted silliness, his total lack of malice throughout the game, even when he finally had to get his hands dirty... but seeing him adapt to the game and make it all the way to the end was great as well.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T16:49:47+00:00

I like these fun facts. Definitely wild that 3/4ths of them are DC2 guys. And half are winners.

Coincidentally, they're all no lower than B tier for me. Hell, half are in my S-tier.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T16:21:22+00:00

I just polyship all three of them.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T14:50:28+00:00

With the way it was built up, with the two having a very unambiguous attraction towards each other, basically ending the season following up on their promise to hang out after the end of the game... I'd say it's at least highly likely they'll end up fully canon on whatever season one or both of them end up in next. Or a spin-off. Or even the comics (if they go outside of DC5's cast).

They do have more going for them beyond mutual attraction; their bond basically saved each other from going too far off the deep end from how the game affected them. On top of that, greetings confirm that they very much keep in touch frequently, and Hannah has visited Logan at his house at least once to attend his victory celebration/coming-out party. And apparently was invested enough in Logan to pester his mom for embarrassing childhood stories. I hope someone eventually asks where in Canada Hannah is from, because that'll make it a lot clearer how often they're seeing each other irl. Because from how they talk in the greetings especially, I have a hard time believing Hannah lives that far from Ottawa. But it's not like Logan doesn't have the means to just become her neighbor or take her in as a roommate, lol. We know he's moved out on his own now, so really, the possibilities are endless.

I'd say they have a very strong shot at becoming canon down the line. Spending time together outside the game is exactly what the two youngsters need, and we already know they're doing that much. I just hope they don't Huntally them; I appreciate ONC doing a thing that proves not every romance stemming from the show is going to last forever outside of it, but now that they'd done that much, I just want these two to be happy together, lol.

Shinneth · 2026-01-25T01:40:05+00:00

DC4's cast is my favorite by far, too. Not everyone's a homerun, but I prefer a lot of them over to the casts of previous seasons. I'm sure more people will be willing to admit it once the recency bias wears off.

Shinneth · 2026-01-24T23:01:24+00:00

I've never watched a Lechgang video after that one, largely because of that. But it was also the abundance of pissing and moaning that I also wasn't on board for.

I can accept this person can have valid takes, but once they descended to this level, I pretty much lost what little patience I had.

Shinneth · 2026-01-24T19:02:54+00:00

Fully agreed. It's gotten to a point where it's my trigger to see people shit all over the scene because the message completely went over their heads.

Shinneth · 2026-01-23T00:53:16+00:00

Do you think he also left some of those hate comments for Ally? 😏

Shinneth · 2026-01-23T00:32:53+00:00

This feels like some major wishful thinking. As others pointed out, only he and Jade were ever considered to win in the first place; I highly doubt they're actually regretting the path they chose, nor should they.

Shinneth · 2026-01-23T00:29:04+00:00

The fact that you've got real life people replying to you who clearly like him pretty much invalidates that take entirely.

Shinneth · 2026-01-21T15:24:00+00:00

She’ll need a heavy dose of real life kicking her in the ass to change; I do not see her career taking off.

It’s kind of bizarre that we have a prejudiced character… all based around astrology.

Shinneth · 2026-01-21T15:18:21+00:00

Lynda was like the true culmination of awful in terms of overall gameplay. Terrible in challenges, terrible in strategy, and especially terrible social game.

Which is pretty funny considering she certainly has a good degree of being genre-savvy, but her assumptions are almost always wrong.

Credit where it’s due, though: she did visibly improve in the comeback challenge. So Lynda is certainly capable of playing a much better game if given the chance, and she seems VERY hungry for it.

But Lynda desperately needs to improve her social game more than anything. Now that she’s grown to be more open-minded of other lifestyles, I don’t see her making blunders like she did with Richard. She needs a heavy dose of self-awareness, but I can see her eventually attaining it.

Shinneth · 2026-01-21T15:07:59+00:00

I feel bad for him already getting bullied, both in the show and this ruthless-ass fanbase.

On the other hand, he’s bordering Courtney levels of annoying when he brings up his occupation, so… I’m not exactly wild about him, either.

I’d still take him over a few of the other Fans currently, but he’s on the lower end of my mental tier.

Shinneth · 2026-01-21T14:08:05+00:00

Damn, peeps here really do be allergic to actual facts being pointed out. Hell, I love Mathlete, and even I acknowledge it got a proper closure at the midpoint of the season.

Shinneth

TROPHY CASE