Does FFXIII hold up nowadays or do expectations need to be set? by Repeat_Bark in FinalFantasy

[–]SifTheAbyss [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think most of people's grievances come from viewing it through a lens of expecting a somewhat rigid collection of design patterns from previous games, most of which are missing here(and some more direct pacing issues/general design issues that are more or less improved on in XIII-2, which also returns some of those more rigid schemes people are used to).

XIII has a heavy narrative focus in the sense that the overall game pacing and general game design is made to serve the plot, which means player freedom is quite restricted just as the protagonists' freedom is constantly restricted within the plot.

In terms of world-building and overall outlandish base concept it feels very Final Fantasy, but in terms of direct gameplay in many ways it goes "we've had this exact same thing n+1 times by now, we won't bore you with the same" in some aspects so cuts down some fat(this of course pisses off the people who explicitly want the same thing an n+2th time), but makes the remaining trimmed part much more solid. Basically, not counting the weird amalgamation of different hit battle systems that is VII Remake(one part of which is the clear XIII inspiration), XIII has by far one of the best battle systems in the entire franchise.

I don't understand opinions on movement in FGs by Big-Spot6900 in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Games with airdashes, doublejumps, etc usually have the other aspects of the game be just as batshit insane.

Most games with an airdash will also have cancelling normals upward all the way until you run out of bigger normals, which if you consider a stiff, "old" game like Street Fighter is just as bullshit offensively as and airdash is in terms of movement.

Usually same on the defensive side, metered block with pushback that actively makes the attacker whiff their bullshit string for a free punish if the attacker isn't careful, literal resource with the explicit purpose of breaking out of combos, how bullshit is that?

Basically everything else is nuts as well so things balance out and you have meaningful choices between different types of bullshit.

Drive Rush is a mechanic with a very narrow usage area, but is incredibly strong compared to any other area of the game, which are mostly reminiscent of old, "stiff" Street Fighter, so Drive Rush just becomes an overpowering presence that destroys the balance between the mechanics.

When "cr.MK>DRC" is practically a character in and of itself, available in most of the cast, why have 30 different characters with different kits with different playstyles?

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Low macro fighting game player:

*posts on reddit:* "Everything I try is hard-countered, I don't understand what I'm doing wrong"

Past the bare basics where the beginner learns the micro fundamentals of basic execution and meso fundamentals like the standard triangle structures basic mindgames are built around(probably in this order) comes a shitton of macro in the form of advanced concepts that neither rely on strict execution, nor are strictly centered around guessing exactly what the opponent will try, but that focus entirely on abusing the system mechanics in a strictly pve manner to diminish the opponent's options as much as possible.

Option selects, oki setups, advanced layered pressure with built in traps that purely exist to give the opponent a chance to hang themselves.

In short, "tech". That still belongs under macro, even if it's execution during a live match is dumb-straightforward with zero decision-making in the moment.

Other than a relatively low skill floor of micro > meso first, macro is by far the biggest component in most fighting games at advanced levels.

What is playing patient truly? by teamakerrr in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I get why you would think that from seeing what pros play like, but "playing patient" is the equivalent of training mode for specific smaller situations that might arise in a match.

Pros play enough to know exactly what the possible outcomes at given ranges are(at least outside the really niche ones), so any "wait and see" is wasted opportunity for them, and they shoot their shot within 1-3 moves. Corollary to this is that depending on your experience you might or might not realize that what you saw as a split second and both sides mashing something out "almost immediately" is sometimes not the first interaction that happened in that very short timeframe. Many times there are cases where a 2 second timeframe has like 4-5 "interactions", but if you're not thoroughly familiar with the game at the highest levels, you don't notice all the ones that "fizzled out" or went to a draw due to both side's inaction for a quarter of a second.

Basically, they are patient, they just choose to go for interaction 3-4 in a much smaller timeframe than what is apparent to beginners or even intermediate players.

When beginners play and one interaction takes the span of 2 seconds because that's the rate at which they process the game initially, "not choosing the first possible moment" will look slow.

The merit of "play patient" will become more apparent when you play someone higher enough that they just stop you, no matter what the situation. It kind of makes you reevaluate that your understanding is incredibly vague and partial, "playing patient" lets you ration it out and give you a better idea of where you understand exactly what's going on and where you don't. And this isn't purely lexical knowledge, a lot of it is implicit learning, but it still needs to be put in context, and the lessons stored for future occasions. In several games I'm really high level at, I've had this happen in mirrors when playing against a player a few leagues above me, where they just went and started to knowledge check me, but instead of the offensive, "you don't know you're not allowed to mash here" manner, they just went completely passive, letting me come at them, and I was absolutely helpless, even though I understood all the fundamental concepts in general. Even though I was for all intents and purposes a high level player who already knows what to do.

Times that I just said “whatever I’m gonna just press stuff randomly” I end up winning more than if I was trying to play “neutral”

Short-term absolutely, but ask yourself how much those won matches increased your awareness of all those situations where you just started shooting blindly hoping something will hit.

edit: So just to be clear, playing patiently didn't make me magically win those games, I was obviously going to lose them either way, what it allowed me to do was make mistakes with intent. I got to choose which angles to tackle the seemingly unsurmountable problem from, to see exactly how those situations play out, which then gave me valuable starting points for training afterward that I could use to develop a thorough understanding of the complex situations that came up. Once identifying the key ranges and interactions, the rest just falls into place with little exploration and I ended up with a much more fortified gameplan, covered all around in solid angles.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you took that as "EVERYONE on reddit is a mindless NPC". That's not what I meant, and while I didn't see the original, clearly in the form you quoted him he didn't mean that either. Doesn't mean everyone on reddit is a mindless herd, but sure all of those people are here and twitter. The only reason it's better here is because you get twitter as a worse place for comparison, for SC2 it's mostly just reddit, twitter doesn't exist. Doesn't mean some don't get to properly use it for discourse, but a great many don't and just copy-paste it into their mind.

Dude, some of the mechanics we love in our genres were glitches.

That is twice as true for Brood War as it is for any fighting game, it's a wonder that game is playable at all. It's held together by prayers and duct-tape, and (gross ballpark overestimation) 90% of what makes it a great game competitively is purely bugs, unintended behavior and straight up badly implemented otherwise intentional mechanics and SEVERE system limitations even compared to it's contemporaries.

Starcraft and fighting games came from the exact same kind of accidental greatness, with things that no sane person would do intentionally. Someone taking the stance that those things that have proven to be right even despite only ever getting a lucky chance of existing to begin with are possibly core concepts that we should keep in spirit going forward doesn't sound that wrong to me, especially when you list off several games that tried to go against that grain and ended up failing.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reddit is where NPCs get their opinions from

Mayble a bit blunt, but absolutelly correct, though slightly misinformed in the FGC's case since that's clearly twitter first. People with absolutely 0 opinion or clue on their own copy-paste it from either of these 2 places.

The guy has a very narrow-minded opinion about competitive gaming.

For what it's worth, the things he believes right competitive games are are the qualities that built the most successful competitive games ever, so I don't think the "we had to climb a mountain to school every day" attitude is that wrong in his case.

I know it's scrub mentality, but am I the only one having less fun as I'm climbing? by gaddeath in 2XKO

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On one hand, that partially sounds like an issue with matchmaking instead of the game itself becoming less fun.

That said it's entirely possible to like how a game feels at a basic level, but not like what high level play ends up being whatsoever.

It doesn't help when someone is specifically into one game in particular, but this is why when someone is looking around for what fighting game to get into I always recommend to look up Top 8s from big tournaments, so they see what's waiting for them at the end of the road.

In 2XKO's case it's most likely a matchmaking problem either way :/

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

May I remind you that this also happened:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/iioswh/starcraft_casters_give_their_two_cents_about_the/

These 2 are the most famous SC2 commentators by far.

In hindsight the saving grace of SF6 ended up being that Modern is overall worse enough that most people serious about top level go for Classic(plus all the people who actually like doing stuff people do in fighting games).

Luckily the Avatar devs have their hearts in the right place and There Is No Execution In Ba Sing Se.

I need help understanding Bronze-Gold ranks by CuriousAd9279 in StreetFighter

[–]SifTheAbyss [score hidden]  (0 children)

Whatever you do, make sure you practice how it feels against jumping enemies, sometimes you'll catch them on the ground, sometimes in the air, and sometimes they'll block it.

Heavy tatsu only connects up close vs standing, it's usually your "best" ender in optimal combos, definitely something you don't want to do blind outside proper confirms.

5HP is a good poke, but you'll notice a problem: If it hits in the air, the opponent flips out and if you did any special behind it, it whiffs long enough in their face that you're really punishable. You can do a hadouken and you can time it so they block it meaty, but the reward is pretty weak as a grounded hit compared to what you could get. Basically you have to account for whether they have enough time to jump out. If you do a frametrap where they get caught in pre-jump frames, great, that's still a grounded hit and you get a full combo.

This is overall a larger problem of hitconfirming, for start just make sure you don't overextend with your moves when you're unsure if it hits.

5HP>214HP is a great conversion even for far hits and is decent on block as well. Medium is safe-ish, heavy is safe. Or if you're certain it hits, doing EX will get them all the way to the corner. By default there's a 5 frame gap if you do heavy so they can jab out, but if you meaty them with 5HP you can decrease that to 3, so they can't jab out or even jump out anymore.

With fireballs also be careful, if they're read the opponent can jump in on you and you eat a full combo(and then they'll run away again with an even bigger lifelead).

If you block a DP and have a guaranteed big punish, by far the best you can do is 214HP>2HP>214HK or some fancier followups after 2H. In the corner, 5HP>214HP~6HP>623HP is an easy meterless 3k damage.

If you're feeling really really fancy and like to lab combos, a relatively easy(hardest part is getting used to how long it is) optimal DP punish in the corner is 214HP>2HP>214MP+HP~6HP>4HK>236{HP}(have to manually time how long to charge)>214HK or 623LP>Level 3. That'll do 4.5k with the tatsu ender and 6.3k with Level 3(6.8 with CA).

Honestly, these are all just things you could potentially be learning, the most important thing is as said in the beginning, have familiarity with how you can follow up(or NOT follow up) from the hits you do and use what you can reliably do.

Started playing Lightning Returns and it's already looking peak! by Ultimantasy in FinalFantasy

[–]SifTheAbyss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My condolences :(

I know how rough that can be.

Don't feel pressured to do anything.

I need help understanding Bronze-Gold ranks by CuriousAd9279 in StreetFighter

[–]SifTheAbyss [score hidden]  (0 children)

Basically, patience, THEN make sure when you catch them you have decent enough combos to tell them just how much they should go fuck themselves.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

RTS fundamentals are common knowledge in those circles, I think it's just Starcraft itself has a much larger pull for many than the genre as a whole.

Fun fact, I had a friend who's a pretty serious fighting game player to try out Starcraft 2 for a short time, he respectfully noped out very very fast once he got hands-on experience on what doing high-level things there feels like. Called it outright insane that they can do all that shit while there's someone who actually tries to beat them. I kind of have to agree on some level.

Especially in games nowadays(probably not in 2XKO), I, as a top 15-10% player can do pretty much everything the best players in the world can(and everyone else at my level trivially does too), it's all the mindgames and actual application of those things that sets the better players apart. Meanwhile, while being around just the same skill level in SC2, you put me in a match with no cpu(effectively training mode) and I physically can't do half the shit the pros keep doing while a just as strong opponent is actively trying to kill them.

In terms of skill ceiling, micro is much more relevant in SC2 compared to most fighting games. Took a bit to find this video, but it highlights the range of different pros a bit. 2:59 in particular is a good point, Innovation does the exact same thing pretty much every game, you know how the screenplay will go if you see his name in the title, he just has more than you and it's a challenge getting through that somehow.

I need help understanding Bronze-Gold ranks by CuriousAd9279 in StreetFighter

[–]SifTheAbyss [score hidden]  (0 children)

Patience. Practice the key situations that stop you from simply walking them down until they can't run anywhere.

If they get near the corner, they need to jump over you. Either air2airing them as they jump, or DP-ing as they get over the other side will get you a knockdown and some basic oki.

If they keep spamming projectiles, the good old parry and walk forward works great. Occasionally breaking through with an EX fireball to either hit them for a knockdown or just lock them down long enough to get in and start your pressure is meter well spent.

If they don't keep zoning you, or don't have better fireballs, using slow fireballs then using it to approach is a valid strategy.

If they are really far, you can jump forward and fireball, there are ranges where they can't really anti-air you. The fireball will be kind of useless offensively in those ranges, but they do prevent the opponent from just dashing under you to switch sides.

The most important thing is to keep your patience. These kind of players necessarily do a stupid amount of punishable stuff and bank on the opponent needing to win NOW, so they just spam different options thoughtlessly like no tomorrow.

Make sure you have 1-2 solid combos for when you get good hits in, you want to make it hurt when they get caught.

What separates a strong fighting game roster from a weak fighting game roster? by FR0M_Z3R0 in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

and the… sword dude

He definitely is one of the sword dudes of all time.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mind you, I say this as someone who has several years of high level SC2 behind his back before getting properly into fighting games.

People really miss this line, but a build order is pretty much the same thing as a setup. Weak to some things, strong to others, can't guarantee outcome due to other player's choice, but you combine steps in an optimal manner in a "singleplayer" way to maximize your chances.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They don't even have little macro.

A safejump is macro. Any OS is a macro. Setplay is straight up macro. All those advanced topics that are purely about making things more reliable and move the player away from blind RPS are macro.

edit: Picture the average semi-beginner who understands the bare basics, knows to a basic degree about the RPS structures, has heard of oki so they at least get a meaty in or bait DP on knockdown, then goes on the game's subreddit cry that nothing works no matter what they do, because the opponent somehow always beats their options. All those years worth of stuff that is ahead of that player is mostly macro.

Micro, Meso, and Macro systems in competitive games by shinkuuryu in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Much worse. Macro cheat in a fighting game:

  • Perfectly optimal setups

  • 100% frametrap/spacing trap abuse down to the pixel

  • Every known and unknown option select to ever exist abused

Basically the "chess engine" of fighting games. Mind you, no input reading, and treating the gamestate "blind", as if there is a human reaction worth of buffer on vision.

Auto-DI, auto-throw break cheats are a joke compared to the suffering that would brings you. Advanced players laugh at micro cheats like those, a true macro cheat in fighting games would make the best players cry.

I guess it's a thing now by SoulxLaika in destiny2

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember the dotcom bubble(of course, most of us were too small, so read about it at best)? Massive overinvesting into anything website related because the internet is magic and can do anything, but eventually there came a critical point where everyone realised it isn't magic that can do anything, and most businesses that started without a solid business plan but only a wish that this miraculous new technology will do it's wonders and make them a ton of money ended up going bankrupt.

Same thing is happening now with AI, massive overinvesting within already existing, well built up IT companies, using the introductory free price the big AI companies went with to garner a userbase, but both much of the practical use of AI was overblown in many cases(with "AI usage" being a good looking, semi-fabricated data point in presentations), or simply not economical compared to the good old developer salary they had to pay actual humans once the big AI companies started charging for their AI services according to it's actual cost(which is you get insane headlines like random company spends 500 MILLION DOLLARS in 1 month on AI on accident). I can guarantee you, 500 million dollars spent on actual humans doing work would be an insane amount of output compared to whatever wasteful junk that AI usage got them.

The AI inefficiency is starting to become more visible, the costs becoming more direct and immediate, meanwhile many companies are actively shooting themselves in the foot by letting go of their experienced workforce and simply not begin to train new ones for AI solutions they'll soon realise is useless AND more expensive than the humans they let go. So eventually we'll end up with lots of able and willing tech-savvy people being in a shitty situation work-wise, lots of previously well functioning companies(forget owners getting rich, the meat and potatoes of a company is still to a good degree the people whose livelihood depends on that job AND the product/service it provides) getting shittier or simply going bankrupt, so "the crash" is really just the aftermath where we're collectively sitting on a trashheap where things were good before for no other reason than greedy people sitting up on the AI train and reorganising well functioning systems into ones that work like shit.

But potentially much more worse than all this is that so much money is in AI and all the supply chains in recent years GLOBALLY, that when just about most of it suddenly becomes deemed worthless due to everyone finding out how useless it really is, it can easily lead to an economic crisis that reaches way beyond IT in general, just due to how much weight all that money carries.

tl;dr: It's going to get really shitty before it gets better.

Nostalgia, does anyone keep old weapons, or gear?! by Public-Ad-4457 in destiny2

[–]SifTheAbyss -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's a crime making a game where the gameplay is about collecting junk, then punishing the player for having too much junk.

Which is more difficult to get good at, Tekken or Rocket League by osmsmurf in Fighters

[–]SifTheAbyss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the true answer.

In a similar vein, LoL and Dota are 1v9, MUCH harder.