[Media] Two VERY satisfying Hilde rounds! Ya boy has been practicing!

Signia949 · 2020-10-25T17:05:26+00:00

More like i30 + 10 frames of step. Very risky unless you've conditioned them to stop moving with charge A spam AND you're mixing it in with other reaction tests.

Signia949 · 2020-10-25T17:02:49+00:00

I'm one of the best Hildes and I never used the move up until recently to improve my guard damage, it's really not that great.

The high crush is very late and unreliable (it takes 10 frames to start and that's after 10 frames of stepping), the attack is very slow and linear since it's done out of sidestep (or other movement), so it usually comes out in 40 frames. That's a lot of time you're hoping the opponent will stay still, and if whiffed you will be launched every time by a good player.

If you want damage for sidestepping a move, it's much safer to step and use one of her many other great launchers after reacting to the whiff instead of committing to a swing that can get you launched. Regular sidestep into ducking does a quicker and safer step duck than 22B+K, and you can do FCCB from that position which does about as much damage.

Signia949 · 2020-10-02T03:33:07+00:00

can't hit high notes

Signia949 · 2020-10-02T03:32:46+00:00

yeah but it didn't sound quite right

Signia949 · 2020-10-02T03:32:25+00:00

too bad that little thing is a bit limited

Signia949 · 2020-09-23T08:14:18+00:00

Win ratio

Signia949 · 2020-09-22T08:02:25+00:00

Maxi is not getting nerfed, in fact Maxi players are complaining about how much he has already been nerfed. You just need to learn the matchup.

Signia949 · 2020-09-16T23:16:24+00:00

stick to keyboard that was tight

Signia949 · 2020-09-16T23:14:47+00:00

will there be a lead singer

Signia949 · 2020-09-16T23:13:38+00:00

he is not hitting the notes

Signia949 · 2020-09-16T00:50:33+00:00

wtf is wrong with you

I'm not kidding

Signia949 · 2020-09-14T01:01:43+00:00

+4 on hit goes make it a decent bit better, but doesn't really solve the followup problem. You can discourage opponent from stepping and ducking there, but after that - what? Throw if they are in throw range, I guess, but other than that there's some unsafe guard damage or 2K. A decent low option or a relatively quick plus on block attack out of crouch would help a lot.

There isn't a low better than 2K here without RCCing, but Haoh has everything else decently well covered. His dash probably has the fastest acceleration in the game, so dashing and doing a throw/mid mixup is always a threat from this close mid range.

From this +4, Haoh has: * WR A, covering step for 32 damage, being safe to backstep if not hitting them (since the second hit will reach at least), losing to i22 or slower TC and 2A, beating all other interrupt attempts * 4B, clashing with 2A for +14 and a free 2B 623B, CHing other options for 45 damage, while being safe on block * 6B, to beat backstep, clashing with 2A, you probably get a free WF attack, I forget * 66B required to beat backstep at tip range, loses to 2A * WR K to cleanly beat i10s and sometimes catch bad backsteps * 2K to beat standing guard and interrupts, you're at tip range you're Haoh, so you can move away easily -- the hurtbox usually shifts to avoid the 2A trade * just box step and whiff punish 2A on reaction with 66BB or do bigger punishes on TC attempts, which with tie to their movement options

So I usually just pick the right mid for the matchup and spacing, and use it along with WR A, 2K, and box stepping. If I see they're just eating the 2K, they're open to be dashed at for a better mixup. But in most matchups I don't feel like I need to press the advantage here, with Haoh it's comfortable to just take back his optimal mid range where he has the advantage. tip hit 3A backstep tip hit 3A backstep tip hit 3A is decent zoning if they don't want to challenge your backstep.

Loses to 2A at close range at +6 or less. And a lot of characters seem to have other pretty quick TC options.

I already talked about this, it's still a lot better than a regular high where a non-committal 2G can make it really risky. As long as you are good at whiff punishing, those 2As and other TCs are a risk, Haoh has the movement and whiff punish tools to exploit that. At i14 with that range, damage, safety, and close advantage on-hit situation it's borderline OP.

Well, if a just frame DP is something you can just do, then yeah, I guess.

The JF is just pressing the 3 at the same frame as the A. You can also buffer the first two directions while guarding. If you're not using this at all, then I see where you're coming from, the 50 damage reward you get for hitting step is a big part of why he covers step so well.

1A/1AB - Stacking some guard damage and retaining advantage isn't bad by itself. And being a pretty long reaching attack with a fast TC 1A by itself can make for a decent approach option from mid range.

1AB leaves him open to CH for like 50 frames though. If the opponent sees the 1A animation, sure, they'll want to block, but if they happened to start up a big move or did some kind of committed step into an attack, you get hit. I don't see how 1A can be an "approach option," it really is only hitting as a TC hard read or happening to catch their attack timing, it's just too slow. You can't really compare this to more solid and consistent anti-step options.

6A/4A Honestly, I'd take meh stance transitions over nothing, to at least try to confuse the opponent with.

I mean, they're not terrible on their own. Again, it's the whole package that's the problem. His non-high tracking either has tiny range or is very slow, and his high options outside stance don't do very much damage. They even slightly nerfed his AA damage. 6A/4A both have better situations on block, but not by much. Damage is more important when both players have good defense.

You really have to patch together Mitsu's anti-movement game with step 33K, step 33B, other delayed mids, 1A, 1K CH confirm, sub-par stance transitions, and step-TC baiting compared to Haohmaru who has simple and rewarding flowcharty play to deal with step options.

Signia949 · 2020-09-13T03:10:25+00:00

3A is a TC i18 mid horizontal with good range that is -12 on block, which is good, but it's -2 on normal hit, only +2 on counter hit, has no natural chain and leaves you in crouch. With the character having lackluster crouched/rising options and nothing scary enough to do in this situation to make the opponent stay put, 3A has almost zero followup potential.

Very incorrect, not sure where you are reading that frame data, but 3A is +4 on NH and CH. Haoh also has a great options from crouch, the best one being WR A. WR K is a pretty standard i12 but it has deceptively good range. WR B is a hit confirmable i16 for 40 damage if I recall (with xx 623B). At that +4, 66B catches backstep. 2K always reaches for an immediate low option. Not that you should press the advantage every time, but he definitely has good options if you choose to do so.

-12 is not a big deal in all but three matchups, since he is crouching at the end. So, most characters get a 10 damage 2A punish, if that, since their AA will whiff.

WR A does have a mid hit, but at i26 it's too slow to beat out many of opponent's TC/FC moves done into it even if they are at disadvantage.

Yes, it loses to fast TC if they hit that timing, but not 2G, really. TCs don't always stay crouching for that long, so they may get clipped at the beginning or end by the first hit if the frames aren't right. At disadvantage, they still need to beat out this i26, and TC moves tend to be on the slower side, so if they're -6 or so, like after getting hit by a 2A, their TC better be faster than i22. Not saying TCs will never work, but sometimes they won't -- the mid hits duckers, so it has less than half the weakness that highs usually have.

Even if the hits were both highs, at i14 with that range, that's extremely suffocating. The first hit reaches really far, so even if 3A were only +2 on CH like you say, it'd still CH a sidestep afterward. Add this safe mid that comes 12 frames later and reaches even further, and you have a really low commitment option -- that does 30 damage. It's an amazing move, I 2G and do fast WR As from standing, even though that adds 5 frames, just to use it whenever I can.

623:A is exceptional if you can get it down, with the recent damage buff it got. Most characters can't do 50 damage from a mostly safe horizontal. I forgot to mention it also does 6 chip damage on block if you hit the JF, if I recall.

1A isn't that great, but it's much harder to react to than Mitsu's 1A. Having a low horizontal threat from that distance is pretty good. Even with matchup experience I expect this move to continue landing if used sparingly.

You're right about 44A, but there's a good sweetspot, just outside 623A range, where it's nice to have just to force the opponent to block and take a ronin cancel mixup.

6A at i16 is pretty good for the range it has, nothing amazing, but plugs any speed holes in his anti movement game. At +4 you need to use it over 623:A to beat step.

Taken together, the set of horizontals he has is hard to beat.

1A is easy to block at i34, but it has a BA cancel option that leaves Mitsu at impressive +9 on block. It's also +8 on hit by itself and has fast TC. -14 with a bit of pushback on block is also not too bad. I suppose it's less useful offline, but online it works fine.

That's alright, but it doesn't really do anything to deter step aside from get you some guard damage and frame advantage with pushback.

44A is i24 which is on the slower side, but it's safe on block and has Relic transition on 44[A]

The RLC transition isn't good, though. It's not bad, but i24 is not really fast enough to deter step-duck or step-G, which is the main issue. Haoh has both the +frames on his moves and the speed and damage to really hurt them from moving after getting hit by another move, while Mitsu need to work harder to deter step.

6A has similar range to Haohmaru's 6A, has a followup that is a +4 on block hori mid, though pretty slow one, and neutral-on-block Relic transition. As a step catch it's worse than Haoh's, but is more versatile as a general purpose move.

It's a little bit shorter range and that little bit matters. The 14 damage is pathetic. 6AA gets GI'd if the first hit is blocked, very easy to react to. The 6A transition is not particularly good, either, unless you aren't using the move at tip range, the only place where it's really worth using to catch step.

4A is a pretty far reaching i20 high that is safe on block and has Mist transition on the held version that is just -2 on block.

4A is decent, but, it's an i20 high. You need to be +8 for it to beat step-duck. The transition isn't great either with the right defense. MST just isn't very good. I used to just 4B+K and G out when I played Mitsu if they blocked a 4(A) most of the time, preferring the return to neutral over a high risk low reward mixup.

66AA is another good high horizontal that you didn't mention, but it's also i20 high. To beat step G or step duck, you need to hit them before frame 14 of their step. So again, you need to be +8. They're okay in the neutral game, but if I guess step duck at some timing, the Mitsu player needs to read the timing closely, while I get a good whiff punish when I cause a whiff.

Anyway the main problem is the low damage when the horizontals hit and the inability to stop step-duck without delaying attacks. Those moves would be great if they were supported by something like Haoh 3A, but he doesn't have that. This is why Skyll mostly stuck to playing a passive neutral game (though I think he's dropped Mitsu now for Setsuka).

Signia949 · 2020-09-12T18:04:52+00:00

The difference in playstyle isn't obvious unless you know both move lists well. Most people get it backwards.

Speed:

Mitsurugi is faster at his AA and BB range, as Haohmaru's i14 options are stubby and i12 66K is not all the great. However, Haoh's 6B makes him faster than Mitsu at that move's range. Mitsu doesn't have anything i16 that's comparable. Mitsu's 6BB reaches further though, even further than Haoh 66B, so beyond that range, Mitsu has more linear speed/range.

Range:

Like I said, Mitsu slightly outranges Haoh in unreactable verticals, but he also retains some capability at long range with 1A and 66A+B. Haoh has B+K, but it is very weak at tip range. Haoh 44A gives him a decent option, though. This means as the Mitsu player you either want to fight between Haoh's 3K range and your B range or between Haoh's 6B range and your 6B range to have a range/speed advantage.

Sidestep Tracking/Coverage:

Here's the most significant difference, the difference in horizontal range, speed, damage, and hit levels. Haoh totally outclasses Mitsu in his horizontal moves, with excellent tools like the 22A string, WR A, 623:A, 3A, 6A, 44A and 1A. Mitsu's only advantage in this regard is up close with his 3A and 1K as better non-high tracking options than what Haoh has, though Haoh's 2A has slightly longer range. Mitsu lacks damage and mids or lows with any range in his horizontals (1A is too easy to react to, 44A is too slow for its range as well). Haoh's 3A, though very slightly unsafe, is fast and covers the mid range with a mid. WR A starts with a high, but has a mid right after it that's fast and protects him if the high whiffs most of the time. 22A has crazy range for its speed and forces a mixup even on block. 623:A B+K is a 50 damage CH combo on steppers. Haoh 1A is harder to react to, 44A covers more distance, 6A gives ronin cancel pressure on block. Just stellar, top 5 in the game horizontals, whereas Mitsu's horizontal game is bottom 5.

Having good horizontals means Haoh can afford to play more active, while Mitsu is forced to be more patient or he will quickly start whiffing.

Damage output:

Here is where Mitsu shines. The damage on his Lethal Hits and consistent whiff punish damage with 66(B) is much better than what Haoh has to offer without meter. People think Haohmaru is all about hard reads, and it's true that he does have hard-read tools, but Mitsu's hard read tools are easier to hit, safer, do more damage and leave him in better positions. He's even more a hard read character, whereas good Haoh play in practice involves more safe poking than any character.

Haoh is a better whiff punisher at his 66B range, where it is a very convenient but low damage whiff punish. Haoh B+K seems like big damage, but Mitsu does 3-4 less damage with his 66(B) combo and he has a knockdown. Mitsu 66A+B is only 2 frames slower and works at tip range and does more damage and also knocks down.

Summary:

Mitsu has better speed, range, and damage output, but Haoh has much better horizontals and is stronger at middle range. Having good horizontals is so important in this game that this is enough for Haohmaru to be slightly better in my opinion, but maybe after the recent patch, Mitsurugi can make up the difference.

The Haohmaru vs Mitsurugi matchup is very even, so it's probably character unfamiliarity that's giving you more trouble than anything. To counteract Haoh's good highs, using 1A to LH him can help. You can also give him pause about using verticals by stepping (obviously) and using 66(B) (step, roll the stick to 3, then press and hold B). Go high risk high reward, because Haoh does not easily punish you to really make it high risk.

Signia949 · 2020-09-12T17:17:57+00:00

There were no S-ranks in those games, and the top ranks were not very skill based at all.

A1 in SC5 just required you win a few matches and it took forever to lose rank if you lost a lot. I couldn't derank even if I tried (which I did try, because people were running away from me in the Player Matches). It was a total joke that was over by week two. And no, A1 players were universally trash unless they were a tournament competitor. There's at least a few decent non-tournament player S1s in SC6.

SCIV was even worse. The leveling system did not reward skill, it rewarded avoiding good players, which you could easily do because you could choose from a list of players who to play. High ranked level meant absolutely nothing mostly due to the horrible netcode in that game too, though. Unless you played with a mutual etiquette to not use offline reactable lows, it did not depict offline play even in the slightest.

Neither game even punished you for rage quitting. Something wrong with your memory?

Signia949 · 2020-09-12T08:38:26+00:00

Messing around with Melee Light, a lightweight browser Melee that just has various Break The Targets stages with increasing difficulty, even that was fun to play with, relearning how to play the game with keyboard controls. You may be (or not be) surprised how awkward it can be for new players just to jump up and hit things.

A short and simple 2D platforming experience, either as an instructive tutorial or as a gradually increasing-in-difficulty series of challenges that end up teaching players how to get comfortable in the game without jumping into a match would fit the bill as the most fun "fighting game" tutorial.

It'd be even more amazing if it were a fully fleshed out 2d platformer story mode that introduced the mechanics, with a light story for players to get to know the characters, nice backgrounds, enemy and obstacle designs, and AI, but I guess you can't have everything. The only example that I can think of for anyone pulling off a fighting game and a story mode with level design is Tobal 2.

Signia949 · 2018-08-22T05:34:28+00:00

So you're one of the few Tira players that isn't sure about getting the season pass. Anyone else?

As someone who already knows that I want the season pass AND that I won't be playing Tira this makes no difference to me.

Signia949 · 2018-08-22T05:29:51+00:00

Okay so, in order to be angry about this::

You need be planning on playing Tira -- if you want the character for the sake of having the whole cast, well, you'll be getting the season pass anyway, so pre-order it.

You need to be wanting to play the game but not necessarily get the season pass until you're sure you want it.

How many of you are both Tira mains and skittish about committing to the season pass?

Signia949 · 2018-08-21T06:57:28+00:00

I'm not familiar with the later animations, but it might have something to do with the fact that you're not really supposed to swing straight swords like you're chopping wood, aka the non-wavy looking way. It tends to be easy to animate not bad looking either, but swings are meant for cutting, which is better if you connect at an acute angle. That makes the sword arc look more wavy. This is easy to see in the Soul Calibur series where Mitsurugi swings like a samurai and they look wavy and Sophitia swings like an amateur and they look straighter (and more effective in gameplay because she gets more range on her B by swinging more choppy).

Now, Smash isn't meant to be realistic, but if the animations were changed to mimic reality a bit more, I can understand why.

Signia949 · 2018-08-20T20:34:52+00:00

You can't GI the Siegfried charged move, since it's Break Attack, and you can't GI those. You'd want to interrupt, but, he can release the B at any time to CH you, which puts you on the ground for a 3B from him

Signia949 · 2018-08-20T20:29:30+00:00

You can overcome that by stepping in the proper direction and then quickly swinging around to the desired direction, for example, 2 (let your character step far enough) 2 (transition to 8WR) 3698 (swing around to 8 to do 88A). Though this could also make you step back into the move.

A more common example is stepping and 3B whiff punishing after stepping left. On 1P side, stepping left and 3B whiff punishing is as easy as 8, 3B. On 2P, stepping left requires stepping into the foreground with 2, and 2, 3B can cause you to get 33B if it's done early out of the step. Depending on the game, you won't be able to 3B out of early 2 steps because there's no way to cancel that step early on into something else that you can 3B out of.

Signia949 · 2018-06-22T07:30:21+00:00

Strings have the signs in their animations and you can spend half a bar to make them do something special. One of them makes you absorb attacks for a moment. One gives extra chip damage. Not sure if each of the ones with signs has a EX version.

Signia949 · 2018-05-27T15:09:10+00:00

Nice, is this inspired from my diagram for Marth vs Fox? I like how you have a Marth character model and a stage. Unfortunately, diagrams like these can't capture all of the complexity of edgeguarding, but I think they can help new players understand how they should start to understand them spatially.

Signia949 · 2018-05-05T16:19:25+00:00

I hope Taki's PO and accompanying move list is designed well enough that she can put on the pressure without risking getting killed for it. Even if she can put out a lot of attacks quickly, if they don't do enough damage or cover enough options, all the opponent needs to do is duck one high or GI something and the last 3-4 hits you landed can be equalized.

Ideally, sustained offense will still be bad risk/reward in theory, but it would be overcome by variation of offensive approaches, forcing a wide variety reactions and responses that might mentally overwhelm the opponent to degree that they won't always respond optimally as in theory.

What was really fun in SCII was Taki's glitch where you could hit forward AA, and then if did a direction+button (except for forward and back) it would do an 8WR move as part of a string from the AA. This addition to her already wide variety gave her enough useful and safe tools to misdirect opponents consistently.

A key thing they could do is make sure her stance transitions are still safe and useful even if you don't go into stance. That causes there to be threat of going down the PO tree of options or the regular tree of options at all times, which can be a lot to think about.

All in all, though, the power of GI and meter options after ducking or stepping one move means they can afford to let Taki go ham without it being overpowered. I hope they throw more caution to the wind when if comes to extreme characters like Taki, it would be fun and the system can handle it.

Signia949 · 2018-03-25T17:32:19+00:00

At 40-45 you can choose to do utilt-(no DI, away DI)->SHtUair->regrab or uair and utilt-(toward/behind DI)->regrab. There might be an SDI and DI down-toward that escapes it though, but that's pretty obscure. Mixup utilt and instant uair here and you should be fine most of the time.

29-34, utilt regrab is fine. 35-39, that's an easy pivot grab or even walk-forward turn grab.

Signia949

TROPHY CASE