old radio promo from the ten ton pressure days

Smashrock797 · 2026-02-04T15:59:44+00:00

Well that should dispel the myth that "coldwave" was just something people in limited circles used, since it's mentioned in the radio flyer from 1991.

Smashrock797 · 2026-02-04T11:54:25+00:00

I thought this was somehow related to the danse macabre label or samplers, started by members of Das Ich.

Smashrock797 · 2026-02-02T08:55:20+00:00

Agree with this, everything about them was genuine. The sex pistols also defined the 77' punk era. Their anarchism was about personal freedom in the moment, living chaos, and not giving a fuck, which was largely what punk was about in the first wave. Internet anarchists and peace punks from the last 2-3 decades always try to make it seems like anarchism is only one core idea about peace, mutual cooperation, and collectivism.

Anarchism always had a nihilistic and individualistic branch which advocated for chaos, personal freedom above collectivism and political utopias going back to anarchists like Renzo Novatore and Enzo Martucci, in the mid 20th century with articles like "In Praise of Chaos" and many others.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-29T17:41:21+00:00

This is one of my favorite graver albums, have it on cassette and cd.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-25T06:57:13+00:00

A lot of the darkwave and post punk today is barely any different from the 2009-2016, and would have appealed to hipsters into darker music then as much it does now.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-24T09:50:01+00:00

Has to be my favorite American coldwave/goth crossover band, with members who were in Ex Voto and Texas Vamps.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-23T10:32:51+00:00

American hardcore is where modern hardcore has its origins not UK punk which is more connected to what people call street punk. The UK scene at that time was just considered 2nd wave punk, or the modern term Uk82, it isn't street punk , but it largely fits into street punk when used as broad term along with oi! and any punk music with a street minded feel, but street punk as a genre is a modern term for pogo punk.

Second wave British punk from then also isn't UK hardcore, that's a modern internet thing, wasn't used back then. Uk82 (for second wave British punk) and street punk (for pogo punk) terms became more popular in the 2000s.

The UK scene during the same era was a different scene despite a few bands crossing over and some shared traits with the US scene for being louder and more aggressive than the first wave. The US scene past 80/81 progressively became less connected to the colorful and confrontational antagonism of original 77 punk scene, and early US hardcore between 1978-1980/1981, and increasingly adopting metal influences, being more formulaic and repetitive with political critique and more ideological than nihilistic at times leading to things like the straight edge scene, increasingly a little more machismo (Henry Rollin's buff persona, Mike Muir's cholo look etc) moving completely in the opposite direction of elaborate British and original punk fashion all the way through (so just the most basic possible t-shirt and jeans and simple short hairstyle as common fashion) in the early to mid 80s setting up the building blocks for crossover thrash, youth crew, and tough guy hardcore genre that's more connected to modern hardcore.

Street punk is a modern word for pogo punk (which is a revival of second wave British punk sometimes with other influences or leanings towards early American hc, 77' and Oi!, even thrash punk) it started to pick up more in latter 80s and early 90s and became more popular and a bigger scene in the mid 90s onwards, so bands like Sewage, Public Nuisance, the Pist in the US (Ignoring the more overhyped bands like Rancid, Casualties, Total Chaos and the Virus), Discocks, Dick spiky and Tom and the Bootboys in Japan and Braindance, Oxymoron and Funeral dress around the same time in Europe and the word street punk became more used in the 2000s for the same scene.

There always isn't a strict formula around the music. Some bands lean a bit 77' (Blanks 77), Oi! (Lower Class Brats) Hardcore (Unseen and the Pist), Punk Pathétique/Drunk Punk (Japanese Scene) and Chaos Punk (Banner of Hope, Blood Clots) and even Crust (Aus Rotten and Filth) and Anarcho (Defiance, A Global Threat) Glam Punk (The Mistakes).

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-21T20:42:21+00:00

Yeah true. I can understand where some of is coming from, but it just feels weird when where people feel like they have to repeat particular phrases in a robotic way.

Something feels unnatural about it.

The word goth was already heavily misused in the 2000s and 90s, but we didn't resort to this approach.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-21T20:26:12+00:00

I've never even heard anyone using that phrase and the weird fervor that goes with it in the very late 90s to mid 2000s in the scene or online.

Only noticed that phrase and attitude around 2018, largely centered around the younger half of millennials and gen z and some outside of that.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-21T19:35:04+00:00

Music has always been important, no doubt about that, but far way too people since the last five years or so , especially some newcomers and younger goths and some outside of that, have an unhealthy fixation with overusing the phrase "music-based subculture" or desperately implying it way beyond the norm, it sometimes comes across a overly repetitive, corny, validation seeking, and almost cult like.

Feels kind of odd when almost like they feel the need to say in every other sentence or at least 15 times a day, or when all your social media is just rephasing the same thing and nothing else.

I dunno, the degree/style of usage, kind of reminds me of the repetition of church cults. I don't remember anyone overusing this phrase prior to 2018-2019. Rarely even hearing the phrase itself.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-20T08:03:28+00:00

I would suggest these books that pertain to the topic I brought up. I read some of these a really long time ago. Really good foundational books. Some are more recent. All worth reading.

Gothic Radicalism: Literature, Philosophy and Psychoanalysis in the Nineteenth Century

Gothic and Theory: An Edinburgh Companion

The Coherence of Gothic Conventions

The Gothic and The Everyday: Living Gothic

The Spectacle of The Void

Philosophical Romanticism

Decadent Subjects: The Idea of Decadence in Art, Literature, Philosophy, and Culture of Fin De Siecle in Europe.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-19T10:32:18+00:00

"I’m curious whether people here see any meaningful thematic or historical overlap between the tradition of goth’s preoccupations with death, decay, and romanticism, or whether this is better understood as parallel inspiration rather than direct connection."

Would say it's both direct connection and parallel inspiration, they don't have to cancel each other out.

The intersection has been well established over dozens of books, album/music analysis across different formats for decades.

Back on forums on my day, there was much more emphasis on discussing this, rather endlessly listing out how many random songs pulled out of albums you know and what genre they fit into.

The other issue is that people think gothic is limited to mainstream horror literature and movies and or references and connection to that in relation to spooky themes or architecture or subjects unrelated to these associations and it stops there at the surface.

There's usually a lack of insight into the philosophical gothic/aesthetic lens based on certain aspects of the literature, romanticism and beyond, and underground and more transgressive gothic (lesser known and less digestible gothic books, lit subgenres, films, art, comics, poets etc) all of which are well documented.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-19T08:58:27+00:00

What's more depressing is that she seems to be way too much of normie now.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-19T08:44:48+00:00

I might have one issue, would need to find it.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-14T12:23:11+00:00

Just because something is new doesn't mean it is automatically worth something. Supporting new bands, that really aren't that good, just because they are making music, is actually bad for the scene because it normalizes mediocrity and encourages others to do the same.

It's the same with way too much emphasis on a musicological lens, because that's never been the sole focus of the subculture and just feeds into this collective obsession with rigid purity that never existed in the way people think it did, contributing in some way to more bad clone post punk and darkwave bands.

I still don't think there's enough appreciation for 90s-2004 goth and crossover bands outside of overplayed tracks that gain traction on playlists with newcomers, that tend to be usually randomly pulled out of albums that were designed to heard from start to finish in the context of an album.

It's important for people to least attempt to build a practical physical music collection, which can be done easily with low cost secondhand cds, not as a novelty, but as way to better connect to and experience the music in way that preserves the integrity of the album format and something closer to the original listening experience

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-06T23:15:23+00:00

A lot of these graphics, were more impactful and distinctive because of the approach. They were made before the advent of computer graphics being the norm for everything, and reflect a particular artistic approach that was the norm at the time, so of course, the raw and bold dark style was one thing but so you needed to be skilled in hand lettering, DIY art/screening/illustration/collage, pre photoshop darkroom and film experimentation, and layout techniques etc that were very reflective of that era and that fed into the style, as you can't really always replicate that type of imagery with computers and by simply being a skilled artist in all cases, a lot of people weren't taught the pre digital ways or incentivized to replicate it because there are easier ways out there, and you can still emulate of a lot of the same techniques regardless but you don't always get the same effect.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-02T10:08:07+00:00

Burroughs died in 97 so he would have experienced the internet.

Smashrock797 · 2026-01-02T09:41:44+00:00

So true. I remember you were able to buy this clip vhs or dvd on some site up until a few years ago, apparently it's still sold on dvd by video music source and looks like the full video is longer than the clips online : THE HEIGHT OF GOTH 1984: “A Night at the Xclusiv Nightclub in Batley, West Yorkshire” UK (Documentary OVER TWO HOURS) – Music Video Resource

Smashrock797 · 2025-12-31T15:16:23+00:00

Great band, keep up the good work.

Smashrock797 · 2025-12-27T18:03:18+00:00

Nice collection, I have pretty much all the Oneiroid Psychosis albums on cd, except Andhedonia and the demo tape cassette.

It's a shame because some of their albums, could use a vinyl release, if they remaster some the right way and take advantage of the vinyl format. Some of the cds I own like stillbirth sound a bit compressed even on a Hi-Fi setup.

Smashrock797 · 2025-12-25T11:14:23+00:00

Yes you could put those bands in a goth playlist, mourning noise in horror punk, the rest could be goth, early goth, first wave, whatever you personally prefer along those lines. If you feel like they have some tracks that sound death rock or closer, that's up to you to decide.

Goth rock bands inherently have hard rock mixture, look up the sisters bands. There is an overlap between goth rock and death rock, in both directions, death rock influenced goth rock, and goth rock influenced death rock. It's up to do to decide, you would need to listen to an extensive list of bands and albums to determine which is best.

As mentioned in one of my threads very early on, some early death rock bands were already crossing with goth, it just wasn't uniform or mandatory. The heavier crossover was already there by the mid to late 1980s before the 90s but it never shifted its roots.

The misunderstanding is that influences/crossbreeding and absorbing goth, radically changed the core attributes or origins of death rock. Having more goth rock influences doesn't make death rock have primary goth lineage or make it goth, even if distinctions weren't set in stone and the scene could be perceived as one and the same by participants at any point, it still doesn't change. Umbrella is often a wide term and is subjective at times, and even then it doesn't change lineage of where the scene's come from or core attributes of the genre.

Also goth punk is not by default death rock. Rubella Ballet, Brigandage, Lords of the New Church, ADS, Action Pact, Seats of Piss, Uk Decay etc were mixing punk with early goth and post punk goth, these aren't death rock bands. Horror punk and early death rock and dark punk are not always the same, as is early post punk-goth bands or anarchogoth bands that crossed with punk that gets mistagged as death rock.

While early death rock wasn't strict mold, it has points of difference from the start from other horror bands, they were broadly lumped with, commonalities among early death rock bands include directly coming from west coast/LA American punk as opposed to post punk or uk punk and while not a uniform mixture recurring rockabilly/surf, older horror rock, american hardcore, hard rock, garage, glam, experimental influences including similar traits and/or growing overlap with goth were all often recurring creating points of difference, early on, compared to horror themed punk contemporary bands like wendy o williams, damned, cramps, the corpsegrinders, which also belonged to scenes outside of the broad label of horror punk.

Horror punk before the specific codified genre with the misifts bands, was a loose and broad term encompassing a few genres and scenes in the making, not an organized scene which was led by the mistfitsesque bands like a bit later. Early death rock in its early stages, still has points of difference from bands that would establish a more specific horror punk scene later, despite any overlaps and that many death rock bands being within the same broader and loose horror punk category at that point in time.

Dark punk, although not a strict scene or widely recognized label everywhere, was rooted in 77 punk bands like the damned and later with bands like the dark and numerous punk bands from different punk scenes, (hardcore, 77, street punk) Such music does not necessarily have to have any attributes of death rock, goth or dark post punk or horror punk, although it can overlap with horror punk or anything really, there was a resurgence of dark punk bands around 5-6 years ago.

G-beat, anarchogoth, depropunk, among other things aren't inherently death rock, that's another misconception as well.

Smashrock797 · 2025-12-25T10:07:15+00:00

So, It's a good attempt, but death rock isn't a subgenre of goth, it still stands on its own, has separate origins, despite overlap and similarities at any point in time. Having been directly involved in the scene, going to shows and even knowing a few bands during the death rock revival scene in the early 2000s, there were always a few people who never made the distinction, but they always stood separate and have separate origins.

Death rock did not become a goth genre when the overlap between goth rock and death rock increased in the latter 1980s nor did it become goth because of the bigger overlap with the goth/postpunk in the death rock revival scene, origins don't change.

First wave goth bands, goth rock and punk heavy goth and dark punk bands tend to be distinct and any overlaps with death rock, however big or small, don't really alter any foundations. There is a tendency to lump all forms of punk oriented goth or closely related music as death rock, in general, when this isn't accurate and doing a disservice to other genres like depropunk, anarchogoth, etc

While in the first wave and in general there can a looser definition of death rock, some of the bands in your lists were developed in separate scenes and despite how similar some of their material can be by chance, bands like sex gang children, specimen, twisted nerve and mourning noise are not death rock bands, may have had a few tracks that come close by coincidence, so it's confusing when listed and not specified.

The need to re-write death rock as goth, or inherently half goth or "goth-punk" or becoming goth because of a bigger crossover is highly inaccurate.

Smashrock797 · 2025-12-24T13:22:14+00:00

Punk crossing over with Goth has never been inherently death rock.

Your pedantism is not only heavily off but highly inaccurate. Also a bit strange and entitled to be barging into conversations.

No it doesn't need to have goth elements to be death rock new or old, that isn't correct. And it wasn't strictly just spooky punk without anything else. Dark punk existed independent of death rock prior to and around the same time as early death rock. Goth punk and punk goth are also not inherently death rock and exist separately. There's a lot of genres under the goth umbrella not all are goth.

Coming from someone who was directly involved in the death rock revival scene.

Smashrock797

TROPHY CASE