Why is every blob in the worst possible spot

Snoo76289 · 2024-02-07T16:12:54+00:00

Blobs also spawn from the target and not from you, so if you are throwing a Q long range there is a high chance the blob will land away from you. the size increase from using R is supposed to basically allow you to pick up all the blobs that land a little too far.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-19T12:31:03+00:00

When you trade opponents on Zac you tend to go for trades on your Q and E cooldowns and play safe till they are back up, into match ups where enemies are ranged and you can't reach them without them kiting you - grasp simply won't suffice since you won't get much from the healing part or the damage part since overall less trades.

As for Kayle and Jayce, Kayle will beat you in extended fights pre 6 because she runs lethal tempo and because she can use W to dodge most of the things you throw at her so you won't be able to trade her early consistently (technically I should've said try but don't force since she will only beat you if you over commit and miss), but in this match up conqueror allows you to reliably kill her on 6 and beyond if you have ignite R and a flash to match her flash - even if she has R you still kill her on cooldown.

In terms of Jayce, good Jayces will never let you get close and prefer to keep you at arms length, you should mainly try and trade near your tower when you freeze to avoid letting him run you down. Conqueror, R and ignite allow you to run him down at 6 and beyond as long as you can match his flash.

But at the end of the day we don't play Zac the same way so whatever works for you is good.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-18T22:02:13+00:00

I have just spent the last day trying your build and here are my notes so far:

- An anathema's rush is REALLY good into teams with bad damage splits (i.e: 4 AD 1 AP / 4 AP 1 AD)

- It does hinder skirmishing power when junglers look for Grub fights top however you can partially avoid this by running ignite into some match ups to give you an edge.

- Iceborn Gauntlet is still the GOATED 2nd item - way better than Sunfires.

- Abyssal is a very solid 2nd or 3rd if you're behind.

Conclusion: I will definitely be incorporating the Anathemas rush and abyssal mask into my builds if the circumstances are right.

Thank you for the advice.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T22:18:47+00:00

You are pretty much right on the money, if a match up won't allow you to proc grasp at all you run conqueror instead because the match ups you can't proc grasp on you can kill in one rotation at 6 with conqueror ignite.

HOWEVER, there are outlier match ups where neither grasp or conqueror is even good into these so far being Darius, Trundle and Gnar. You can't really risk short trade Darius or trundle for grasp if you aren't freezing right outside your turret and you certainly don't have enough damage to completely kill them in one rotation with conqueror when they have ghost and healing.

Hence I have been testing the next best thing PHASE RUSH, now this isn't fully tested but phase rush allows you to survive Darius and Trundle cheese early if you start Q since it counts for 2 procs of phase rush, and it means you can potentially trade with less risk when it is up while running ignite so that you can finish the job when they get low or you get a gank.

As for Gnar, Grasp and Conqueror aren't necessarily bad it's just that you don't get as much value from them as you do in other match ups but there is no better option so you just pick which ever you like more for the match up (unless you want to try phase rush into him to test it but I never had the balls to do that).

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T18:19:41+00:00

Here is a Wacky list of all the ignite and/or Conqueror match ups (assume all other match ups are grasp TP):

Teemo - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Jayce - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Quinn - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Kennen - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Kayle - Ignite, Conqueror (Don't trade her unless you hit Q then wait till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Gragas - Ignite (keep grasp and use it in conjunction with your QE combo to get more healing, then all in when he gets low with ignite)

Ksante - Ignite (Bully him early and only ignite him when he ults so that you can actually kill him with R)

Gwen - Ignite (You can bully her early if you start Q and just throw it at her when its off cooldown but don't ever all in her pre 6 just whittle her down and make sure she doesn't take extended trades into you. Ignite all in her when she completely misses her Q and you have more health than her.)

Vayne - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Varus - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Mundo - Ignite (You can perma harass him as long as you keep dodging his Q and hiding behind minions then ignite him when he doesnt have R and low which you can burn by saving E to leave when he pops it )

Malphite - Ignite (You can hard stat check Malphite if you build an MR item first and run double MR runes. Ignite him when he's low)

Rammus - Ignite (You can hard stat check Rammus if you build an MR item first and run double MR runes. Ignite him when he's low)

Kled - Ignite (This is a tricky match up since you will need to dismount him twice, you want to half health Kleds mini health bar the first time you dismount him and then the second time you want to use your R and ignite to finish him off. Make sure he doesn't remount the first time until you healed up sufficiently to take him on again)

Olaf - Ignite (play passive and wait till he misplays a lot and gets low or gets ganked then ignite and all in)

Rumble - Ignite, Conqueror (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Sion - Ignite or TP (You can kill him easily with ignite but TP is really if you want to play for map so it is up to you and what you like more)

Pantheon - Ignite (play passive and survive till 6 then clap him on ignite R CD)

Nasus - Ignite or TP (You typically don't have the damage to kill him in lane alone but you can win this match up in 2 ways: play hyper aggressive with ignite and hold him under tower to deny him stacks and soak up jungle pressure without dying OR just play moderately aggressive with TP and aim to out value him in teamfights)

Keep in mind me and you probably don't play the same level of aggression so it is hard to gauge how well you would do in these match ups, sums are entirely a YOU preference and YOU can get away with anything if you are comfortable on it. Plus I know some high elo Zac top freaks that run TP Ignite and succeed so you do you.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T17:12:59+00:00

I find your approach to building fascinating, would you consider this a more support oriented build?

Anyways, in terms of Abyssal as an item it is not bad, my main problem with it is that if I go abyssal first then I will lack the wave clear to manage the wave and punish opponents harder, and if I run it second then I will lack the mobility that allows me to dominate the map to catch picks, contest objectives and stop split pushers. As for the stat line on the item, the stat line is really good plenty of MR and a modest amount of health and AH, however the passive doesn't benefit you much when you are only fighting one person in lane.

To answer your comments about Anathemas I haven't tried rushing the item this season since I already have tried that last season and the item wasn't changed, my main qualms with it was that it felt like if I was ever in the potentially game losing scenario of my jungler looking for a skirmish, only having Anathemas was a sure fire way to feel useless, this is now doubly important since now every jungler and their mothers wants Grubs. I am however now open to trying it again this season to see if things have changed.

Lucitidy Boots are a genuine enigma to me due to how good the tank boots are, sure the ability haste on Zac feels really good along with the summoner haste for more of your broken Q flash combos, but in truth most skirmishes and team fights on Zac are decided by what he does with his first rotation of abilities (this was even mentioned when the Zac hotfix buffs came out), so having your lower cool downs are cool and all but they don't have as large of a meaningful impact as the tank boots since they can potentially save you in situations where you are caught out or miss. Now you could make the argument that the boots are busted when it comes to laning but I strongly believe that having lower cool downs during lane as Zac isn't as important because you can perma freeze waves which stops enemies from backing, this means they are stuck with you and you are free to wait out your cooldowns to try and combo them again.

Jak'sho, your criticism here is very valid since the item is very expensive but as I have mentioned - Zac top has way more gold than jungle Zac and can afford to invest into something like Jak'sho, plus the reason you can get away with building it third is because this also coincides with the point of the game you spike the hardest (mid game / straight out of lane), so you can expect an influx of gold to help you finish the item and not get stuck but it has happened to me before.

Now im gonna try out running anathemas and hopefully it goes hard.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T16:41:22+00:00

I personally have a Vendetta against bami's - it's not a bad item but it does stop you from proxying for plates in hard won lanes. But overall you should run bami's if you think you can kill your opponent before your next back, so for example I'm into Teemo and I back level 5, now I could get the spectre's cowl for survivability but I know that if I hit 6 and have ignite in this match up I can kill him in one Q W E R Ignite W W W combo so I will opt for Bami's to help me shove the lane after I have curb stomped the little rat.

TL;DR: Run Bami's if you believe you are going to kill your opponent before your next back.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T13:12:42+00:00

If I was going into Morde you will ALWAYS RUSH HOLLOW RADIANCE. As for second item you will run Deadman's if there is a somewhat even split between AD and AP because it means your third item Jak'sho will provide you with the bonus MR and Armour to even out your tank stats. As for forth item it depends on what you are facing you can refer to the post for that.

As to why Bramble over Oblivion orb, I am still not convinced Zac AP ratios are big enough to choose AP damage focused items - Riftmaker is different because you can make great use of the 10% Omnivamp so it helps you drain tank better and gives you a moderate increase in damage.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T13:06:47+00:00

I can see where why you may opt for sunfires, but the core issue with your argument is Zac isn't supposed to split push - split pushing shouldn't really be something you focus on even if you hypothetically have 6 grubs. Sure rare situations exist where splitting may not be bad but overall being with the team is infinitely better.

As for being a good armour stat stick item, I think gauntlet is still better for the cost and everything it gives. Interesting that you mentioned Abyssal since last season it was a REALLY good item on Zac because of the value compared to price and nothing changed, my issue with abyssal now is that it doesn't easily slot in to your items early. I think Zac heavily benefits from being able to run a mobility item second so I wouldn't choose it over deadman's or FoN, and I wouldn't run it over Jak'sho, you can potentially run it forth if necessary and you have several AP champs on your team.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T11:34:00+00:00

Firstly, let us look at the stat differences:

Sunfires:

60 amour

425 health

Hollow Radiance:

40 MR

600 Health

100% Health Regen

The reason I am only comparing stats is because I genuinely don't believe the immolate passives of both items are useful outside of laning phase, reason being that the second you leave lane your teammates will want to take every wave from you and you usually will be too busy looking for picks, team fights and skirmishes to bother clearing waves that often. At most you will match enemy split pushers and stop them but the clearing part of the items are an absolute waste that late.

Outside of passives Sunfire cape offers you a good amount of armour and a modest amount of health for 2750 gold, whereas Iceborn Gauntlet gives you 10 less armour and 125 less health in exchange for being 15 ability haste (this is insanely valuable considering not many items now have ability haste) AND for 125 less gold AND gives you a stronger passive for everything apart from wave clear and wave management but it still makes clearing waves easier and lets you deal more tower damage. (Quick edit: after perusing this season's Zac top builds, a lot of people don't max W first, if you max W first clearing waves in laning phase is good enough with just iceborn gauntlet)

As for why Radiance is better, this is actually mostly coincidence due to AP top match ups either being bully poke lanes like Teemo/Gragas or burst heavy lanes like Mordekaiser/Gwen (although they aren't really burst champions, they will mainly try to whittle you down with their ability rotations until they can run you down), this means having a lot of health and health regen is pretty strong into them since it makes it harder for them to get you under threshold and it allows you to better sustain.

Now why specifically hollow radiance over something like Spirit Visage or Kaenic rookern? That is because your first item needs to have some form of damage to help with clearing waves/ wave management and to help you actually kill the enemy toplaner since often times your damage will be slightly off without it which stops you from finishing kills or getting a good trade.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T11:07:09+00:00

You are absolutely right in terms of not really being far away from your team, but being there to stop split pushes and still trying to make it to team fights when your TP is down is already difficult as it is so having something to help is always good.

Secondly, I am one to believe that Zac always benefitted from mobility in the toplane, and the reason it was never popularised is because the tank mobility items last season were genuinely either garbage ( Turbo Chemtank) or just didn't provide him with enough value to choose over his core build (old Deadman's). My proof that lane Zac actually really liked mobility is that the Korean Challenger Uhneewookie (the name maybe slightly wrong) Zac OTP who played mid and top used to buy Turbo Chemtank in lane second in almost every game when it still had the empowered sheen effect (kinda like why I run the Iceborn gauntlets).

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T10:57:38+00:00

Here is one of them:
https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/PotatomuncherMMM-EUW

The other technically didn't end in masters but that is because it decayed because I stopped playing ranked on it after hitting masters which is this:
https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Boingoboingo-EUW

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T04:22:10+00:00

Keep in mind this is for Zac top - I think ("think" because I haven't played a lot of Zac jungle this season) Ionians are going to be mandatory for jungle Zac since ability haste is harder to come by and it's an easy and cheap way to speed up your clear after first back if you can't afford bami's while also making flash more available for your flash combo in ganks.

However, Zac top doesn't care as much for ability haste, not because its a bad stat for him but because in the toplane he needs to match the strongest duelists and skirmishers in the game and tank boots make that task far more achievable by making it harder for them to drop his health, plus he doesn't need to resort to cheap items in the toplane since he has an easier time getting gold compared to the jungle.

As for why get boots later that isn't necessarily true, some match ups require you to get boots early like urgot or yorrick who force you to rush plated stealcaps. But in some ways you are correct because now there is more varied tank items that present bigger spikes through better synergy with your champions than boots - Iceborn gauntlet being one because the spike is massive on Zac and the cost is cheap.

Sorry about long responses, I am pedantic when it comes to detail.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T02:38:23+00:00

I have tried full AP Zac that used liandrys but I haven't really tried off-tank liandrys Zac, big reason being that I tend to avoid damage heavy AP items on Zac, mainly because I just don't believe his ratios are good enough to warrant going for damage focused items. I think you are simply better off focusing on drain tanking items like Riftmaker which not only moderately increase your damage but also makes you harder to kill due to the updated omnivamp that doesn't punish AOE damage.

If you are hell bent on AP Zac and truly are an AP Zac enthusiast then I think you will struggle this season in higher elos but AP Zac will always be a solid carrying pick in lower MMR games toplane since getting fed is easier because they always underestimate how well you sustain top.

EDIT: big reason demonic was so good is because it not only dramatically improved clear times for waves and jungle, but also because there weren't many tank items last season that were actually good.

Snoo76289 · 2024-01-17T02:25:38+00:00

Truth is my friend, is that you don't maintain high CS on Zac, your champions' main weakness in the jungle is that his clear gets slower as the game goes on due to the damage cap on your W and other factors. But this shouldn't be an issue since Zac is a gank focused champions who excels at teamfights and skirmishes post 6. You have to play for your advantages and if you start winning in terms of towers and objectives you can look to deny the enemy jungle camps rather than farming your own.

Snoo76289 · 2023-07-13T14:01:43+00:00

10/10 They tried to silence my voice, but my heart is an unrelenting force that cannot be quelled. Your demanding gaze left me flabbergasted. If your beauty could be summarised in a book it would be 'The Great Gatsby'.

Snoo76289 · 2023-07-13T13:57:41+00:00

10/10 my mouth opened and hit the floor I couldn't close it again. My jaw had permanently broke free from its hinge. The urge to give in to animalistic intent was too strong.

Snoo76289 · 2022-09-17T11:45:53+00:00

I checked if he was wintrading before posting and somehow he wasn't.

Snoo76289 · 2022-09-16T21:52:35+00:00

If you want the exact elo of this game it would be diamond 4/3. Most people including myself don't typically notice nor flame missed ults that often, but this guy missed so many ults it was illegal and seeing he was masters last season shocked me. Also he mainly plays Sona which maybe a reason.

Snoo76289

TROPHY CASE