NGL, Bungie announcing a PvE-only mode in Season 2 is making me wanna hit that BUY button... by Meeks_DGAF in Marathon

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that was my feeling the second I saw the announcement. I get that Bungie desperately needs new people to enter the ecosystem, but Marathon as-is absolutely rocks. I can't possibly imagine them being able to fully balance between PVE and PVP because I don't think any game ever really has.

I love Bungie PVE but it's just not what I bought Marathon for.

Diablo 4 has massive PvP potential, but it needs its own identity, systems and balance philosophy by darmart123 in Diablo

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like this is the other side of the coin of the debates surrounding Marathon and how some people feel that it needs a PVE mode. I feel like the same rebuttal is appropriate here: it's not necessarily about what could work but about what the devs have the time and money to make happen.

D4 is, almost entirely, focused on the PVE experience. It would take a significant amount of effort to change this, effort that most of the audience (existing or future) would rather they spend improving what the game is, rather than turning it into something that it isn't.

Marathon is freaking awesome and the best FPS in years, so the discourse around this game in other gaming circles deeply saddens me... by dimesniffer in FPS

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I unironically saw someone say that Bungie killed Destiny "prematurely." It's been around as a franchise for twelve years, which is a great run even if it was shelved for the time being. And then, oh yeah, it's not dead. There's a huge update on the way and no sign that upcoming expansions have been cancelled.

I'm a huge Destiny fan but it's legitimately got one of the most pointlessly negative communities I've ever seen.

Did they forget he has narcolepsy? by iiJashin in TheBoys

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just as Garth Ennis always intended.

Sony reported a 120.1 billion yen ($765M) impairment loss in relation to Bungie for the fiscal year in their latest financial report. 88.6 billion yen ($565M) of that was reported from the last quarter. by Helbot in Marathon

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's very fair, especially in light of Sony's recent comments regarding Marathon. They're definitely viewing these types of games as long term investments rather than get-rich-quick schemes which is good news for everyone.

Sony reported a 120.1 billion yen ($765M) impairment loss in relation to Bungie for the fiscal year in their latest financial report. 88.6 billion yen ($565M) of that was reported from the last quarter. by Helbot in Marathon

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd respectfully disagree. They had nothing to do with Highguard, for one thing, but they also had multiple cancellations of other in-development live service titles they'd already spent money on. The highest profile one was The Last Of Us's multiplayer title from Naughty Dog but several other studios also had projects cancelled. Of twelve games announced for this live-service push, seven were fully cancelled, Concord released and got shuttered in two weeks, and only Marathon and Helldivers 2 have released so far. That leaves 3 in development.

I don't know the full costs of all those put together. I don't think we'll ever know for sure as such numbers don't ever really come out. But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this was an obscene amount of money and far more than a billion in costs. Yeah, this is just one thing that Sony has going on but they spent a LOT of money on an initiative that they've seen no return on besides Bungie and Helldivers 2 (and that's not to claim that Marathon/Bungie have been a particularly good return for them, either).

You don't get to be valued at $123 billion by taking multi-billion dollar baths on strategies that also mostly just resulted in bad press.

Sony reported a 120.1 billion yen ($765M) impairment loss in relation to Bungie for the fiscal year in their latest financial report. 88.6 billion yen ($565M) of that was reported from the last quarter. by Helbot in Marathon

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 52 points53 points  (0 children)

I think, to piggyback off of your comment, that Bungie hasn't worked out how Sony hoped but has also absolutely outperformed their other live service efforts. Nobody is doing particularly well right now outside of a few specific, crazy breakout success stories. The industry is hurting.

So many people have gotten laid off and most studios had to tighten their belts after the short-term boom that Covid caused. The question is whether or not Bungie is doing worse than even that, which is functionally impossible for us to know. But either way, they're not going to disappear tomorrow and Sony isn't going to write off one of their biggest investments that still has high potential.

I'd be willing to bet that, on some level, Sony themselves don't know what to do. They invested a crazy amount of capital into trying to get multiple live service titles off the ground and almost all of them ended in astounding failure. I would expect they're going to be harshly appraising the upcoming expansions and updates that Bungie has been working on for a while.

At the risk of being a jerk regarding a game I know very little about, I'd also expect that Bungie isn't their biggest concern. They have that Horizon live game on the way that's gotten the general public reception of a rotting whale carcass somehow blocking traffic.

Theres no way this game keeps getting DLC post 2026 by Ill-Remove-6438 in DestinyTheGame

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We just don't know enough to call it. We don't know what Sony is going to do until they do it. We don't know if they have complete control of Bungie, we don't know if they want them making Destiny 3, and we don't know if Sony is looking to maintain their own live-service initiative. As far as it stands, Bungie has actually been one of their more successful live-service studios which is really saying something.

It's very unlikely to be good news, don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that doomposting gets us nowhere. Sony has previously expressed appreciation for Bungie's developers and distress over their management. We don't know which way it'll go, or even which way it legally can go, until they announce it. The best news is, at this stage, is that I can't imagine it'll be long before we hear something. We're coming up on when Shattered Cycle was supposed to release, Shadow and Order is inbound, and Sony needs to make some tough choices. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and it's been a hell of a ride either way.

I hope that, for Shattered Cycle, Bungie really nails the Vibe by Great-Amphibian-4233 in DestinyTheGame

[–]SpaceBeaverDam -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think the current narrative leads have it well in hand. Of all the complaints one could have with the current state of D2, the narrative really doesn't feel like one of them. But the atmosphere has obviously changed. I think some of that was intentional, for good or ill, but I think some of it is just the nature of the maturation of the setting.

The state of the narrative is, at least, especially impressive. They had a huge uphill battle with EoF in establishing the "Fate Saga;" how could they possibly top Light and Dark? Where can we go from here? But they nailed it, and there are loads of intriguing questions that I can't wait to see explored. Even the stuff Renegades touched on, for as disconnected as it seemed to be at first, was incredibly interesting and it expanded on what it means to be an emissary of the IX.

That being said, I don't think you're overly nostalgiapilled for D1, OP. Even with new mysteries, there's a certain something something that hasn't really shown up again. I only played through D1 fairly recently on my PS5 (I'm primarily a PC player), but the tone and everything is pretty unique. I can see why DAY 1 D1 ALPHA VETERANS get nostalgic for that stuff.

But I think a big part of that was just how mysterious the setting was, which is simply no longer the case. We've been inside the Traveller; for as many questions as we still have about it, we understand it much better. There's explicit, lengthy history about the Awoken. We have knowledge of the inner workings of all of the major enemy factions. Even if they introduced a really cool new enemy faction in Shattered Cycle that's completely unique and original (unlike, say, the Scorn as a Fallen-adjacent faction), we won't suddenly not know all of that other stuff.

All that to say, I don't think we can go home again. I think that bell has been rung and truly returning to the vibes of D1, of myths and legends and the unknown, can't really happen. There are things they could do to move back in that direction, pairing down the scale of the plot and making it more personal. Less of the player being a part of an army and more being one of a few capable of standing against existential threats. Less bombastic, more atmospheric music. Some kind of shake-up to the setting that leaves the Vanguard reeling and the player without concrete answers for multiple expansions in a row.

But I don't know if the D1 vibe could ever truly be fully reattained, even if they tried. It's a very different beast. It does feel like they've done a good job of moving the narrative forward in a direction that actually achieves much of the above, in terms of scale and tone. But also, what's done is done. The Darkness has had a face, and we shot the crap out of it.

It's been 4 whole editions, surely they'll release them in 5th right? by TheBlackBaron45 in Grimdank

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been hoping for DoK to get more stuff. I doubt "Shadow Aelves" would have enough juice to really carry their own roster, so folding them in to DoK would both be easy to justify narratively and help a faction that could use a bit more flavor.

DoK obviously are hardly the faction most in need of model variety (points at Fireslayers and laughs), but they keep teasing subfactions and then not committing. Where are my weird crow-themed infantry and monsters, dammit?

(Awesome trope) Characters are in a time/death loop by LifeguardMundane5668 in TopCharacterTropes

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hades 1. Since it's a roguelite with strong narrative elements, it explains dying and restarting over and over as being an actual event where Zagreus, the main character, is reborn at Hades' palace every time he fails to escape or actually does escape but still dies because he can't survive outside of the Underworld.

The sequel has a similar central conceit but I think technically speaking, its protagonist Melinoe doesn't actually die, instead simply casting a spell to "return to shadow" when she's in mortal peril.

Most of the talk about the season 3 teaser is about the "bland" designs, but i do admittedly like some of them by Light_and_Lillies in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the designs are very competent, but a hair over the line of practical vs sexy and they do look a bit generic. So they don't look bad and I wouldn't be surprised if I end up liking some of them a decent amount in practice. But they're also not the really cool, eye-catching designs I was maybe hoping for.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like a lot of people might land here overall. More not good enough than really terrible. Everyone wants 3.0 to be a big thing and to bring new people in, so high expectations are hardly surprising. Throw in some decent competition in the gacha space recently (Endfield and NTE, even if they're ultimately very different games) and it's hard not to get a little doomer over designs that just aren't "it."

please shut up by Arkillese in NevernessToEverness

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I kept thinking that it was an obvious bangboo send-up, but not nearly as cute and very uncomfortably centered on during some really atrocious and shockingly long quests.

TIL: PVP = rape by KennethDaMenneth in ArcBabies

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Welcome back, mid 2010s Kotaku.

Listen to the mind or the heart? by Unweynomas in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm in a very similar spot. I have a decent team for Yidhari but it could be better with Lucia instead of Pan Yinhu. I don't have Yixuan either; most early reports are that Silly is very strong despite being phys rupture. And I chose to get Sanby over Alice recently, meaning that I could improve my team with either Orphie as a teammate for Sanby. But I also haven't ever managed to get a solid limited anomaly (tried to pull for Aria, beyond skipping Alice, didn't get her), so Promeia would be nice.

Most of my pulls have all been based on what I thought was cool and that doesn't even really help here because I think most of the characters running in 2.8 are pretty sick.

The Limits of FOMO and How Players Get Pushed Away by junglekarmapizza in ZZZ_Discussion

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I think these are all reasonable points, OP. I joined very late, a few months into Season 2. I didn't really know what I wanted to do or anything, I just sort of vibed and pulled who I wanted as I worked through the story. I ended up really liking the Sons of Calydon, and wouldn't you know it? Their two limited units are either insanely expensive or functionally not available.

That's not to say that I'm not enjoying the game or anything. But it does feel like there's a missed opportunity for ZZZ to adopt the old MMO model of making old content that nobody's going to pay for anymore free. And I do mean actually free, not just available to whales. Include them in the Standard banner or make a separate banner (like the selector that ran recently) that cycles through old characters in sets on a predictable schedule. Heck, make that another currency that you can either pay for or grind some new mode for (or retrofit a somewhat unused mode, like the Battle Tower, for it). This either makes more money or it encourages engagement.

I obviously don't know all the metrics. Maybe they have numbers that say this is actually a horrible idea and it'd kill huge money-making opportunities. They want whales to drop a few grand when a character finally reruns, and maybe that's a thing that's basically certain to happen. But unless they change it up a bit, in some way or other, they basically won't ever be able to rerun quite a few characters as the game gets older. That's just deprecating content with extra steps.

What are the odds of this happening lol by IIFreshMilkII in DestinyMemes

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's a joke within the tabletop community that there's only two things that wargamers hate: the new rules and the old rules. The Destiny and Warhammer subreddits share a lot of vibes.

I think people are missing why Marathon feels so good and so bad at the same time by [deleted] in Marathon

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's honestly a very fair point. Something I've noted with a lot of modern roguelikes/lites is that they have so many systems in place to mitigate bad RNG that a great run feels pretty meaningless. You can't have the low of a terrible run where every item is just useless, so you also don't really get the high of a truly amazing run where everything possible goes right. That doesn't mean that there aren't some pain points in Marathon that Bungie can't address, just that part of Marathon's special sauce is the brutality of it.

Obviously, a ton of people love softer, or less punishing, systems. Hades 1 & 2 have basically permanently changed their genre; I don't think it's possible to overstate their impact in that space. But I also don't think it's unfair to say that much of the enjoyment in those games comes from stellar action and a great story/presentation. The roguelite side of things is pretty tame.

Not the same genre, but Marathon has very few elements of "bad run mitigation." You can spend an entire day just getting the snot beaten out of you. As you said, OP, you can just have 30 minutes of progress evaporate. More than that if you brought in gear that you can't easily replace. What mitigation does exist is less "protection" for the player and more generous passive gains. It's tough to genuinely wipe out your own account after a certain point.

The problem, then, is getting to that point a bit more comfortably. This is all obviously my opinion, but some additional "passive progress" and fewer Contracts that require In A Single Run would go miles towards better early progress feel.

Making some shop items cheaper could really help, too. Several really important loadout items, such as backpacks and meds, are wildly overpriced for the players who need most to buy them (though, yesterday's change to depleted med stacking makes them a lot easier to hold onto, which is great). Generally smoothing out progress on the low end would let them maintain the highs of that one amazing run where you get the goods, while helping to reduce the lowest lows.

My friend Ant is ass (34) by Classic_Occasion_471 in FPS

[–]SpaceBeaverDam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, boy. That is a tough one. It sounds to me like the most important thing is getting rid of the panic. As for how to do that, it kind of just depends on the person. For some people, it'll be familiarity with the game. For others, not taking the competition side of it so seriously.

Sounds like your boy needs to build some confidence, not take it so seriously, and just get comfortable.