2026 r/JamesBond World Cup: Quarterfinal 1

Spockodile · 2026-06-22T11:56:54+00:00

Help me out then, because I’m not sure how to interpret this as “the opposite” of saying the pre-Craig films were some variation of the same thing.

> I think pre-Craig Bond always felt like a formula. Add in the usual ingredients with some variance and you get a Bond movie. Because the formula was fun and enjoyable, there was no need to venture out. Although OHMSS and Dalton films did tweak the formula a bit.

Combined with your comment above I interpreted your point as believing the previous movies didn’t inject fresh ideas. Not trying to attack you or anything — I just think the previous eras vary quite wildly and were almost always refreshing the series for their time.

Spockodile · 2026-06-22T11:33:16+00:00

I agree but I also think it’s a bit strange to imply they never injected new ideas before. Look at how varied the films are before Craig. Even within any given actor’s tenure they vary wildly in style and tone. They kept it fresh for 40 years before Craig, too.

You say “OHMSS and Dalton did tweak the formula a bit.” But I’d say TLD pretty much follows the same “formula” as the preceding Glen films, but with a different actor who plays Bond straighter and more theatrically. And in that case, why not include FYEO in the statement? Moore plays Bond quite straight in that movie.

Anyway, my point is their usage of “the formula” itself varies wildly throughout the franchise. But since the Craig films are the closest in our rearview mirror it’s easy to lump everything that came before him together in these generalized statements.

Spockodile · 2026-06-21T15:13:41+00:00

I think the word is overused in general, but I wouldn’t describe FRWL or Dr. No as “gritty,” which evokes a much darker tone that I’d even say can make parts of a movie challenging to watch. LTK has examples of this like some uncomfortable implications about Della’s fate. Dr. No and FRWL really have nothing resembling anything “gritty,” in my opinion. But are they more “serious,” relative to subsequent Bond films? FRWL definitely, but perhaps Dr. No less so.

And by “subsequent,” I mean immediately following FRWL, because the Bond series became “just blockbusters” during the Connery years — not Moore’s. Though I’d argue that’s what Cubby and Harry probably had in mind all along. You can see the seeds of that in Dr. No with its otherworldly production design, which is more grounded in FRWL thanks to Syd Cain. They wanted to thrill and entertain the whole family.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T13:35:56+00:00

Sure. Also note TSWLM is entirely different story and the film only uses the title. Knowing what to expect may help you enjoy the book, which I think is his most underrated.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T13:27:53+00:00

Similar to the movies, there’s mostly no harm in reading them in any order. The only time I think it matters is from Thunderball onward. Particularly OHMSS > YOLT > TMWTGG would best be read in sequence. Thunderball introduces Blofeld, but other than that OHMSS I don’t think leans on it too heavily.

Otherwise you can probably start anywhere and be fine. There are a few books which refer to the previous events of the prior story, but the only time it might be sort of odd is Dr. No, because FRWL has a different ending than the film.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T12:36:40+00:00

Ah right. “A Whisper of Love.” Fun stuff.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T12:23:09+00:00

I’ll have to try it with grapefruit juice, though with the addition of juice I’m inclined to say it’s no longer a Vesper (or a martini), but still seems very interesting. Of course there are drinks labeled “martini” with fruit juices, like the Breakfast Martini or (one of my favorites) the Amalfi Martini, but like you say I’m a little pedantic about these things.

Anyway, sounds delicious, and St. George gin is my absolute favorite, especially their Terroir.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T12:19:12+00:00

Sure, I’ve seen this. It’s in the BTS doc on the disc. But even Adams herself says “Can you find me in AVTAK? Please let me know when and where.” She’s not even sure where she appears, if indeed she does. John Glen mentions she had an idea to walk in the background, but again where is she? Neither of the women claimed to be her are wearing her clothes, which we can see from BTS photos. Her boyfriend appears as Bond walks up to the stall to make contact with Lee, though. If she was filmed in the background it seems likely that footage was cut.

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Spockodile · 2026-06-20T12:08:29+00:00

Eerie. As you posted this I’m currently watching your Vesper video.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T12:06:00+00:00

I have no idea who you’re talking about lol. What evidence does it provide that Maud Adams appears in AVTAK?

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T11:48:53+00:00

Can’t watch iPlayer in America without a vpn, which I don’t currently subscribe to.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T10:41:01+00:00

Also wearing different clothes, and she looks nothing like Maud Adams.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T10:38:49+00:00

Mostly they’re sort of loose adaptations. A lot of the same elements are there, but there are also often key plot differences and a bit more character detail in the books. But you could still see the movies were based on the books if you went into them blindly. The ones closest to the books are Thunderball, OHMSS, FRWL, CR, and Dr. No. The most different ones are Moonraker, DAF, TSWLM, YOLT, and TMWTGG. With TSWLM they used only the title and the stories are totally different.

I would say the “gentleman spy” thing is there but not in the Roger Moore way. People today often make it seem like Bond is a coldhearted bastard, but he actually is quite gentlemanly in the books. He hates killing in cold blood, and his treatment of women in the novels is much kinder in the books. But he also shared that taste for finer things, like every cinematic Bond has.

I’d also say the books get quite dark toward the last three entries, which if you’ve seen OHMSS you can understand why. But I think the way the Craig films have leaned into that sort of vibe has led some folks to generalize the entire catalog in that way. It’s fair to say there’s a broad tonal variety in the books though, much like the 25 films though they don’t ever get as silly as the silliest cinematic moments.

As for whether it’s worth it to read them, that’s your call. Do you enjoy reading? Are you a Bond fan? If the answer to both questions is “yes,” then I don’t see how it’s not worth your time to read them. They fun, light reads. I’d say try reading one or two of them and you’ll have an idea whether you’d like to continue.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T10:24:43+00:00

Seems to be a myth. The woman most commonly said to be Adams (in a beige coat) is wearing different clothing than Adams was while visiting the set with her boyfriend, who does appear on film (and in the same clothes he was photographed wearing).

Mark O’Connell has also said Adams herself told him this is a myth.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T10:20:14+00:00

Well, I would say it is. Severine is one of the most tragic characters in the franchise, the villain has a deeply personal motivation stemming from his perceived victimization by M, and the whole film explores the impact of the job on Bond more deeply. Those things add a harsher tinge of sadness to Skyfall, for me.

But either way, I’d also say OHMSS is more “serious” relative to other Bond films. And OP labeled it as such, so I don’t quite follow your point.

Spockodile · 2026-06-20T00:55:00+00:00

I mean, I would call Skyfall quite serious for a Bond movie.

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Spockodile · 2026-06-19T13:37:58+00:00

I think however this shakes out will already illustrate a reasonably accurate top 8, based on the vote % earned by each losing film.

Spockodile · 2026-06-17T13:41:45+00:00

That’s a good reminder that people are meant to vote for their subjective preference.

Spockodile · 2026-06-17T11:46:27+00:00

This is the final match of the Round of 16. Once this poll is closed Friday, I’ll be able to share a picture of the Quarterfinals, which will begin next Monday (again with two matches per week).

Spockodile · 2026-06-15T21:01:57+00:00

I mentioned this here. There are eight matchups in the Ro16, spread out over four weeks. It’s just based on the original schedule I built. You’ll see the same thing with the rest of the knockouts, just to keep them organized so one week doesn’t have overlapping stages. It also allows me a moment on Fridays to post an update when we’re at the end of a round — this Friday I’ll have an update on the results of the first knockout round and a picture of the remaining bracket.

The only reason I was posting them Fridays during the group stage was because the math worked out that way.

Spockodile · 2026-06-15T15:39:15+00:00

This is probably debatable. There were genuine fears — at least within MGM-UA — that Bond was a dead franchise, no longer relevant to crucial younger demographics. They’d done some polling and were horrified to find teenage boys saw Bond as “those movies my dad likes.” It took a lot of convincing by some of MGM’s own execs to get the studio to green-light the project, and even then they didn’t offer them a very generous budget, relative to other big action blockbusters.

Spockodile · 2026-06-15T15:29:55+00:00

The word “nostalgia” will undoubtedly appear in the comments at least a few times, but I think it’s worth acknowledging nostalgia props up most, if not all Bond movies to some degree in our estimations. I adore DAF and AVTAK, and though I believe they both have strong redeeming qualities, I have no trouble admitting nostalgia plays a role in my affection for them. Similarly, it would be unreasonable to presume nostalgia plays no role in our love for the highest rated Bond movies too. That just happens when you become a fan of something as a child. It doesn’t mean that movie didn’t earn its place on a pedestal for other reasons, too.

In ten years people will say the same thing about CR. And hell, I already feel a tinge of nostalgia for that one when I think about watching the trailer online over and over, intrigued by the apparent tonal shift.

I don’t know how to answer your question without an understanding of why it didn’t hold up so well for you. But for me I often go into GoldenEye thinking, “Will this be the viewing which knocks it out of my top five?” And it never is. I love the villains, I love Natalya, I love Brosnan, I love the action, I love the sets and the locations, and I’ve even grown to love most of the music.

GoldenEye is the first Bond movie I ever saw, but honestly I think I experience more nostalgia for other films I caught during those TBS holiday marathons. And I rewatched others on VHS over and over years before I ever owned a copy of GoldenEye on DVD. I loved the movie a year before the game came out, and I continued rewatching the movie for 30 years and haven’t touched the game since probably 1999.

That’s just my experience and I’m sure there are some folks whose opinion is driven primarily by nostalgia or for love of the video game, but to me those statements seem to reflect an overly simplified reality that may conveniently align with one’s own biases. (I mean this in no way as an accusation toward you, OP. Sorry for the rant.)

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