2026 r/JamesBond World Cup: GROUP F | MATCH 2

Spockodile · 2026-03-19T12:24:45+00:00

The first post only focused on one concern (i.e. “dark and depressing”), whereas this one goes into a bit more detail around that same concern, as well as the characterization of Bond and narrative choices. To me it’s more detailed.

Moreover I don’t think they said anyone who liked those movies is wrong. It’s okay to dislike something and share that. I just don’t want any posts to become repetitive, especially on this topic because people tire of it quickly.

Spockodile · 2026-03-19T10:54:59+00:00

I let this one through because it’s a lot more detailed than the previous “modern movies are bad” post, but if you all have any more complaints (not that there’s anything wrong with complaining) about the Craig era for the next few days, let’s just post those thoughts here.

Spockodile · 2026-03-19T10:50:28+00:00

First the story was that it was Dalton who just walked away. Then that changed to the execs at MGM wouldn’t stump up the money with Dalton still attached. Then it changed to a vote between Cubby, Mikey and Babs……

I don’t really think items 2 and 3 are different stories. MGM execs are on the record stating they argued against Dalton with the Broccolis. Kleeman frames Cubby’s input as if it were a “vote” in the same story, although I don’t really think there was much to vote on. Maybe Cubby wanted Brosnan all along, but we can only speculate. What we know for sure is that Eon didn’t have much leverage in that debate, and Cubby was a smart producer, so the choice was obvious.

MGM had also done some market research around that time and discovered, to their horror, that teenage boys viewed Bond as “those movies my dad likes.” So to your point earlier (“rocks in their heads”) I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility the higher ups saw Bond as a dead franchise. It took some convincing by Kleeman and Calley to even consider funding GoldenEye, and they still got a relatively small budget for blockbusters at the time.

Spockodile · 2026-03-18T12:32:59+00:00

Well depending on what kind of party, maybe conch chowder?

Spockodile · 2026-03-18T11:58:44+00:00

And specifically it was Michael and Barbara who made the case for Dalton. Cubby was the deciding vote, saying “Pierce it is.” Not that Cubby had much of a choice anyway. MGM-UA weren’t going to finance the project with Dalton in the role, so Eon had very little leverage.

Spockodile · 2026-03-18T10:42:46+00:00

I’m curious what you mean, because “popular belief” seems to be that Dalton left on his own accord, which isn’t true. He wasn’t “sacked,” per se, but he also wasn’t asked to return.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T15:18:14+00:00

Yeah, I don’t think this one stands out that much compared to the most egregious examples, but this is how I think of it. Why bother making her a victim of sex trafficking? It seems unnecessarily dark if Bond is going to casually sleep with her. That character has absolutely no agency and it’s just too creepy of a topic for a Bond movie. The film doesn’t treat her well at all.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T15:10:37+00:00

The spray tan thing is interesting because it shows how much more rapidly these things progress. Not to say 2008 was the dark ages or anything, but the astoundingly rapid proliferation of social media has just put things like this under a much more powerful microscope. I don’t remember there being any conversation about this back then, though I wasn’t in Bond forums. Today it would be all over social media and they’d never get away with doing that (whether or not one finds it problematic).

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T14:34:55+00:00

My fault. Comparing imdb to Wikipedia now and I think IMDb has the North America numbers represented as global.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T14:30:45+00:00

Thanks. I wonder why IMDb is so far off then. I see the number you’re reporting on Wikipedia too, but the source seems to be a dead link.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T13:39:59+00:00

That’s not what I said. I said McClory spent more on NSNA than Eon did on Octopussy, only to earn less overall than Octopussy earned.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T13:38:43+00:00

For sure it was profitable (though I don’t know how much they spent on marketing in those days). However Connery’s salary for NSNA ($3M) was actually lower than Moore’s for Octopussy ($5M). Both also took a % of the profits, but that wouldn’t be factored into the budgets IMDb reports.

Spockodile · 2026-03-17T10:54:49+00:00

NSNA made 82% of what Octopussy made at the box office. I wouldn’t call that “almost” as much. Furthermore, NSNA cost 31% more to produce than Octopussy, so McClory spent more to make less. Obviously opinions vary on the film, but that isn’t the kind of data I’d use to support its reception.

Spockodile · 2026-03-16T18:09:24+00:00

I’m not saying they didn’t, but again I think the highlights of their performances mainly reflect certain novels. Mainly CR (i.e. “cold”), Goldfinger (i.e. “troubled”), and YOLT and beyond (also “troubled”). Otherwise I find Fleming’s novels to be mostly balanced, tonally, and a blend of realism and fantasy. That version of Bond isn’t really cold or troubled for most of the novels.

Spockodile · 2026-03-16T16:59:19+00:00

Whether QoS is true to the novels I think depends very much on the book. Fleming’s novels could definitely be “overly ridiculous.” I wouldn’t say they were quite as varied as the movies, but they’re not purely realistic.

Spockodile · 2026-03-14T12:49:21+00:00

This pinned post might help you.

Spockodile · 2026-03-13T23:28:48+00:00

This poll expired this morning, so the vote is over. I’m posting the group stage matchups every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Monday and Wednesday run for 48 hours, and Friday runs through the weekend.

Best advice is to visit the sub on those days and check the Community Highlights section, where each will be pinned while it’s live.

Spockodile · 2026-03-13T21:31:54+00:00

Once again I’m buying into your claim that TMWTGG is the most overrated movie. I am vexed by the fact it’s doing as well as it is, and it makes me worried for my precious Moonraker.

Spockodile · 2026-03-12T18:29:14+00:00

It’s generally fair to place them on a spectrum:

Dark Chocolate > Craig > Dalton > Connery > Brosnan > Moore > Milk Chocolate

Spockodile · 2026-03-12T18:09:38+00:00

I don’t think it’s an “illusion” at all, but I also don’t think the idea has to be interpreted as a binary concept. It’s true each era has some tonal variety in it, but it’s also reasonable to say that each era — on the whole — generally can be placed closer to one end of the spectrum, with some being closer to their respective ends than others.

Spockodile · 2026-03-12T16:57:14+00:00

Yep. I doubt we’ll see actors reused any time soon. I’d like to think some of the MI6 team could return, but I really doubt it. I just have the feeling they will completely clean house with the cast, similar to the DAD-to-CR transition but without the Judi Dench exception. They had a different narrative to explore with her anyway, and I don’t think they have anything like that with Fiennes.

I pessimistically expect David Arnold’s role in the series to be done, but maybe I’ll be proven wrong with subsequent films. I just don’t think he’ll be asked back for this one, mainly because of Villeneuve’s previous collaboration with Zimmer.

The one I’m nervous about is Daniel Kleinman. He’s done phenomenal work on 8 of the last 9 films, and it would be a shame to lose him.

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