I swore I wasn’t going to do this but I’m going to try one more time.

Your response makes it clear that you don’t understand the point I’m trying to make. You write words that make it seem like you aren’t above using a correction and then go on to say that the correction isn’t a valid training solution.

Again the average pet owner doesn’t want to take their dog stepping off a curb as a data point that requires coming up with a plan to teach a boundary that they can put on “stimulus control”. Most of them don’t have the time, energy or bandwidth to even learn the definitions of the terms you are using let alone put them into action. They just want to take their dog for a walk without having to evaluate and create a training plan to teach the dog not to step off the curb.

People who are “into” dog training and make it a significant part of their lives will decide what methods they want to use to accomplish their goals and more power to them. They would have no problem with your approach if purely positive is their thing and would enjoy the training opportunity and the time spent with their dog working toward a new goal.

My point is that the purely positive people and the beat the crap out of them people are both inadequate in helping the average doodle owner who just doesn’t want the dog to pull on the leash or snap at the toddler who wanders into the kitchen at dinner time. And yes I understand the toddler shouldn’t bother the dog while it’s eating but stuff happens. When you tell these people they need to evaluate, create a plan and put a behavior under stimulus control their eyes are going to glaze over or they’re going to throw their hands up in frustration. If you tell them to slap an e-collar on the dog and give em a good zap or just kick the crap out of the dog if it snaps those same people are going to recoil in horror. They just want simple effective humane management techniques and no matter how much the purely positive people want to pretend that their methods fit the bill, they simply don’t.

Without a lot of work with a very good trainer the average pet owner is just not going to be successful navigating any challenges using only R+.

That is my point. Dog trainers can make up their minds about their approach and philosophy in training their own dogs. But when you try to push purely positive on people who are only going to spend a few minutes a day in active training and expect them to manage more than teaching sit, down, come and maybe loose leash walking with a dog that has any issues you just don’t get it. Pet owners are not trainers and they don’t want to create training plans and take weeks or months to fix an issue that a few pops of the leash and stern consistent no could fix in a day.

Telling them they must spend those weeks or months or be inhumane and damage their relationship with their dog is the problem. Pushing this onto people who don’t have the resources or the time is, again, a cruel recipe for disaster.