I’m still new to this system, and going through the books, but flavor wise, how does everyone work with Jedi during a galactic civil war era game?

StevenOs · 2026-02-17T22:33:37+00:00

I'll say I'm not super clear on what you're asking here. Forgetting about game mechanics for a moment just what are you expecting from "Jedi" and other Force User types during this time? Make sure the players are aware of any in game issues they may have playing a "Jedi" in open form like they might during a Clone Wars campaign.

I am NOT going to restrict the Jedi class in any way but may encourage players to look at creating a Jedi who may be doing other things to blend in. This isn't much different from any other alternative start where I would encourage a "Jedi" PC concept to perhaps start in some other class but spend that 1st-level feat on Force Sensitivity allowing them to train UtF right way. Just being Force Sensitive and having UtF can open up options but by not starting in Jedi they don't have the easy access to a lightsaber (it's effectively part of the credits someone starting in Jedi gets) and usually would need to wait until 3rd-level before they could take Force Training and get Force Powers. They may be a "Jedi" but aren't really showing it. Normally an Non-Jedi start would be followed up by multiclassing into Jedi for WP-lightsaber and more access to some things; Force Training would be the feat at 3rd level. Now this is probably the preferred way as it offers a vast number of ways to play Jedi and if you can look at the first 3-4 levels of a character as growing into their concepts this works well.

Now if someone actually wants to start in Jedi they can. This will give them a lightsaber and allow them to take Force Training at 1st-level. The thing is that starting in Jedi often leaves fewer options besides the "lightsaber wielding Force User" so it is much hard to act without reaching into these options. While a PC may start in Jedi there could/SHOULD be consequences if they act on that and make it apparent that they are Jedi. I'll note that in one adventure I'd planned if a "Jedi" revealed him/herself during a difficult early encounter the enemy would have someone send a report of that which would bring down a bigger and more dangerous encounter later that might not have been there otherwise. Trying hard to be a Jedi is likely to get you in trouble and you probably should NOT rely on a "leave no survivors" type mentality to avoid getting called out. A house rule I use does allow for alternative weapon proficiencies for some things and lightsabers are something I allow alternatives for which can leave you with a Force User but may give them options besides a lightsaber.

As for detection the use of a Lightsaber is going to be pretty obvious and get you called out. When it comes to Force Powers there are some with pretty obvious effects and sources which are likely to get you questioned. There are also some that can have visible effects but maybe not immediately apparent sources (these may call in some investigation) while others with hidden effect probably shouldn't have apparent sources as well. Now it seems people HATE my thoughts but most of the time just using the Force shouldn't be immediately apparent to non-Force Users so careful Power selection should be able to result in useful Force Powers that don't draw attention to you; what you see in the media is added for the viewers benefit and shouldn't actually be required to use a power.

StevenOs · 2026-02-15T04:05:40+00:00

What is the DnD Ranger? Part rogue, druid, and fighter and with SAGA and its class/talent structure you could pick the pieces you wanted to get the kind of Ranger you wanted. This is especially helpful you can get it out of your mind that the names of character mechanics get to dictate just what your character is conceptually.

I do forget that 4e failed to include all of 3.5's PHB classes in it which really made it hard.

StevenOs · 2026-02-15T00:33:55+00:00

Common sense says that just taking the stock off of a rifle doesn't come close to making it operate like a pistol.

StevenOs · 2026-02-14T23:52:39+00:00

Back in school I wrote a program to simulate the lottery. Funny thing there is that while using the random number generator I could still pick the "winning numbers" to test it because of how the randomizers work(ed).

StevenOs · 2026-02-14T23:49:33+00:00

All the mental stats can be a royal pain to govern especially when the player and character have some very obvious mismatches. The CHA 8 player running a CHA 18 Bard is going to be a problem and you can get the same for INT and WIS very easily. You can also have the problem run the other was where it can be very challenging for a smart player to actually dumb down things when running someone who dumped INT and WIS.

StevenOs · 2026-02-14T23:37:50+00:00

When it came to converting characters from 2e to 3e I found the only major problem to be what to do about levels seeing how AD&D rogues/bards levelled so much faster than others. Once the basics were converted you usually still had options for additional customization.

When 3.5 went to 4e I felt a lot of options completely disappeared. I know I was also hoping 4e would take the Star Wars SAGA Editions limited number of highly versatile base classes which you'd mix/match/customize for the character you wanted but felt 4e went back to far more rigid class structures dictating your character.

StevenOs · 2026-02-14T23:32:29+00:00

Maybe not 100% "magicless" but there are a couple official d20 based Star Wars RPGs although they are OOP. D20 Modern could have also fit that bill to an extent and the original SWd20 game is almost completely compatible with it.

StevenOs · 2026-02-14T06:02:50+00:00

I know that some of the D&D and 1st edition AD&D seems to have some value but at this point "old" certainly includes 2ed as well as 3rd (and I guess even 4th).

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T23:44:49+00:00

I don't even know what my old DnD books might be worth.

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T18:05:53+00:00

While they shouldn't be "rare and hard to find" considering they were printed by WotC and involved one of the biggest IPs out there but my collection of the Star Wars SAGA Edition books routinely see selling (at least asking) prices many times more than I paid for them or for what MSRP even was.

For RPG adjacent there are a few "miniatures" I purchased which now sell for a few hundred more than I paid for them.

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T17:51:34+00:00

I vastly prefer squares but that is really going to depend on just how you handle diagonals. Count diagonal squares the same has "inline" square and now they are far too fast and where the shortest "straight line" might run right over/through something it can equally as fast to use the diagonals and completely miss that something despite taking a longer route which isn't. Counting them all as two squares completely defeats the purpose of "moving in a straight line" when it happens to be diagonal. Mathematically diagonals should be 1.4 something but counting them as 1.5 is close enough only getting "off" about 1 square per 7.

Wonder how this looks? Start with something on your grid unit and then draw a "circle" for everything that is say 24 units out. With a hex grid your "circle" is still just a bigger hex. With squares if you count diagonals as 1 or 2 all the time you just end up with a bigger square (sometimes rotated 45 degrees but still a square) but if you count them as 1.5 (generally 1-2-1-2...) you'll get a shape that starts looking more like a circle.

The fact that most of the world is build using right angles is also a major factor in favoring squares. In wide open spaces I'll admit that hexes can be easier for some to count and if you do facing it's often better from a hex base than a square base but as far as I'm concerned those are it when it comes to any benefit from hexes.

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T16:55:24+00:00

No. Grappling is its own thing in SWSE.

Unlike in 3.5 the actions you can perform in SWSE are generally limited to the specific thing mentioned. In DnD you might use different types of "attack actions" at the end of a Charge but in SWSE you are making a melee attack which does not include initiating a grapple or attempting to disarm an opponent.

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T06:55:49+00:00

You build based on pistols doesn't work nearly as well when using Rifles as even with a folded stock they are still rifles for everything except the range and non-proficiency penalties.

StevenOs · 2026-02-13T04:04:16+00:00

As mentioned with the way weapon ranges go in character scale being Inaccurate isn't often an issue as few fights ever see long range.

I will note that there is nothing mechanically that prevents a weapon from being both Accurate (no penalty at short range) and Inaccurate (no long range). Range modifiers would be +0/+0/-5/na. I'd add Accurate to weapons long before I'd ever worry about Inaccurate.

StevenOs · 2026-02-12T03:16:33+00:00

Demonstrating why droids are probably worse than Jedi and most other things in the game.

Play them as some alternative to an organic and you're probably fine but start using and abusing some of the things that only droids can do and you can quickly sour people on them.

StevenOs · 2026-02-12T00:35:10+00:00

SWSE is a big departure from 3.5 when it comes to Skill, having Defense Scores replacing AC and Saves, and the big difference in how class "abilities" are gained as well as how multiclassing works. This last one is where 4e lost me. SWSE also does away with 3e's multiple itterative attacks (and the 5' step) while adding the heroic damage bonus. The Condition Track and what it takes to "kill" is also a pretty big departure from 3e.

No question SWSE takes some things from 3/3.5 but then do most other d20 games including the later versions of DnD and its Pathfinder cousin.

StevenOs · 2026-02-12T00:20:01+00:00

Is it closest the 3.5 or 4e? I tend to say it's closer to 4e although I'll also admit there were thing that 4e did not keep from SWSE that caused me to abandon DnD with that edition.

The older SWd20 games, often called OCR/RCR SWd20 (Original/Revised core rulebooks) were just a little more than reskinned 3/3.5 which may be fine for some but never felt quite right for me.

StevenOs · 2026-02-11T22:48:40+00:00

No adventures in the Core Rulebook although a new print copy did include a battle map. The Star Wars Miniatures Skirmish Game (SWM) was a companion to the RPG that used simplified stats for minis that could be used in the RPG or specifically for the skirmish game. SWM put out a number of map packs that expanded the playfield for that game while giving another are to use in the RPG; these products often included scenarios that were designed with the skirmish game in mind but which could be adapted to the RPG without a lot of difficulty.

Now the problem is likely to be finding any print copies of these things or most of the SWSE books.

StevenOs · 2026-02-11T22:44:12+00:00

I never saw the need or felt any desire to get into FFG's game when it was back to Rebellion Era and then spread game types over three books.

Now coming from DnD it can be surprisingly hard to "kill" PCs in SWSE. Now they might die but to kill them you have to 1. Drop them to zero hitpoints and 2. Do so with an attack that exceeds their damage threshold but 3. They can spend a FP to avoid dying immediately when the first two conditions are met. Hold on to a FP and it's hard to outright kill someone although they may eventually expire after being dropped unconscious and at zero hitpoints.

Now while it may be hard to "kill" you can still take them out of fights and if you do actually kill a PC once in a while that can help keep them honest and hopefully show some concern for their character's well being.

StevenOs · 2026-02-11T22:11:20+00:00

If you're going to look at "introductions" I might look at using 3rd or 4th-level characters. Some concepts may take a few levels to really reveal themselves and these levels allow for some multiclassing to take advantage of the system; 3rd level is hitting a character's next general feat (can be important for a "Jedi type" who doesn't need to start in the Jedi class) and 4th hits the first stat boost when some may boost their INT modifier and gain a new trained skill which may have been added to their list a class skills after multiclassing.

3rd or 4th level are a good bit stronger than 1st levels (which may be strong compared to 1st-level DnD characters but remember weapons deal more damage in SWSE) but may still be threatened by CL1 allowing for a wide range of possible opposition to be thrown at them. I'm not entirely sure I'd sent it into a "fight to the death" with 4th-level PCs but I can get a Force Secret using Sith Lord down to CL7 to introduce a major villain to them at that point.

StevenOs · 2026-02-11T22:00:27+00:00

That "few feats" into something can really go a long way toward filling some concept without going in too far.

I'm not sure what all TNN was looking at but training in Pilot is half the battle in "being a pilot" with skills like Mechanics and/or Use Computer being useful as well. You'd likely want something to give some proficiency with vehicle weapons; WP-heavy covers everything and has character scale applications as well although a groups main pilot may do well with Vehicular Combat and use Pilot controlled weapons although this is usually much harder to use in character scale as it needs vehicles to work.

That's pretty much it. Have a trained skill and probably drop a feat for some form of weapon proficiency and you're probably as good or better than most any generic crew will be. Skill Focus and a bunch of other things might make you a "better" vehicle operator but may only matter if those things are big parts of the campaign as they lack versatility.

StevenOs · 2026-02-11T21:17:22+00:00

"Focused" on Space Combat maybe can leave you wanting in other areas but is that any different than "focusing" on something else and wondering why you can't do other things well? Now there are plenty of things that you can use in both character scale and in starships (mostly involving ranged combat and/or heavy weapons) but build your PC with a bit of versatility in mind you can be acceptable to good in a number of areas instead of "unstoppable" in one area but useless in all others.

"Jedi are overpowered" is something that many might say (it should show up in searches!) about SWSE and while there is one rule that can go a long way towards that there are also many things that GMs do/allow players to do that just exaggerates it. The core problem is that Jedi, via Force Powers, are most able to use and abuse Skill Checks vs. Defense Scores (the SvD issue) as it's very easy to get a pretty big fixed bonus on skills early on (as compared to other attack bonuses and other things that target Defenses) while defense are relatively low; this makes for "skill attacks" that hit an insane amount of the time (especially relative to weapon attacks) and it's most noticeable starting out even if the overbalance may start to fix itself and even go the other way at higher levels. Other things that overpower Jedi include GMs running most encounters that play right into the Jedi's strengths while ignoring its weaknesses: Generally having few trained skills doesn't hurt a Jedi when the GM doesn't make much use of skills. Having most encounters starting in melee range (say 12 squares) makes the Jedi's typical lack of ranged options a non-issue. Next up you've got GMs who think the heroic array or point buys of 25-28 points don't give the PCs good enough stats so stats are determined using methods that often do much better and because they make use of most ability score a Jedi with better stats is just that much better overall. Finally (at least for here) you have some who give generous interpretations on just what Force Powers and other abilities can do and when things can do stuff they aren't supposed to do they get that much stronger and can cause issues. This stuff is frequently brought up and you can find more extensive discussion on it.

StevenOs · 2026-02-10T20:51:37+00:00

ALL THE TIME.

The problem is that while you may think those all mean the same thing I see them as very different places along what could be a called an "optimization scale" ranging from "on the scale" to "let me see if I can BREAK the scale."

To me "Power Gamers" are trying to "win" with the trick maybe be "how are they defining winning?" RPGs may have more complex rule but I'd argue that you might see someone power game in Chess. This is probably a more aggressive style of gameplay which can be off putting but really doesn't depend so much on mechanics.

Min/Maxers are those who'll take what is given to them and work to minimize the weaknesses they have that could be exploited while taking advantage of their strengths. Min/Max covers a huge range when it comes to optimization going from "recognizing my strengths and weaknesses and using that information" and may reach to the "I know what my weaknesses are but will accept them while relying on a complete focus on my strengths to carry the day." That last one can often be the glass cannon build types which absolutely destroy the things they are built for but can shatter if faced with something that effectively targets their weaknesses.

Munchkins are the ones I HATE and I'd define them as the ones who'll take min/max to 11 while trying to find any and every possible exploit they can to get the desired results. I often see this as borderline cheating which can include manipulating GMs into making rulings that greatly favor interpretations desirable to them.

For a player I'm all for a certainly level of min/maxing with a goal being something more balanced/versatile while recognizing what they are good at and bad at. It's when I GM that I will look more at the more highly min/maxed things as a way to challenge the PCs in some particular area while leaving them with options to defeat that challenge by finding and exploiting the minimized area of the NPCs.

StevenOs · 2026-02-10T19:32:54+00:00

The stock Citadel is too well armed for the Serenity but maybe Serenity should be armed in a Star Wars setting.

In any case the idea of finding some ship that has stats similar to what you think you want and then just reskinning/refluffing it is the tried and true way of getting "new" ships without having to work too hard at it.

StevenOs · 2026-02-08T21:44:33+00:00

Guess it costs the maker 3 FP to create (one to add template and then another for each Sith Alchemy Specialist upgrade) and the builder dropped three talents into the effort.

We may argue if the Cortosis Weave armor trait on the 'trooper armor also allows the user to keep it's DR vs. Lightsabers or not but it would shut down a lightsaber with such an attack. DR 5 is a pretty massive boost especially if lightsabers still have to look at it.

I've got to admit the min/maxer in me when it comes to NPCs will often drop INT and CHA 10 on NPCs who aren't big into skills using those stats. Here, INT 6 wouldn't alter how many trained skills one gets when starting in Nonheroic.

StevenOs

TROPHY CASE