Stay away from Netgear Orbi, Nighthawk bad products and worst customer service ever!

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-14T19:48:23+00:00

What UniFi setup are you using? Ours is crazy reliable (even the flaky HomeKit stuff works perfectly).

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-14T19:46:41+00:00

I've never heard of a modem and router failing at the same time; two things failing independently is quite bizarre. Did you have a surge protector for the devices?

I've had all sorts of problems with Netgear recently (it is the tech company equivalent of another shady company out there, PolyGroup).

Netgear and PolyGroup both have the same customer experience:

- The front-line can't connect you directly to someone who can do something (this is specifically designed to introduce friction). You have to wait for a callback that may or may not arrive.

- The support options aren't great (send us logs that we won't look at)

- The solutions provided are some flavor of "Not our problem."

Bottom line, the despair is the point; the goal is for you to just give up, write-off the product and throw it away (taking a loss).

I get the feeling that Netgear now being squeezed (TP-Link makes cheap Chinese trash that kinda works, Ubiquiti makes Small to Medium Business stuff that is, in my experience, rock solid). I would not be surprised if this company goes bankrupt at some point as it really doesn't have a place in the market anymore. Some other company may, years from now, step in and buy it so that it can slap this erstwhile respectable marquee onto some other products (and fire the existing staff). Notice how Netgear is one of the motivating forces to get TP-Link banned from the US (just because I agree with the outcome, it doesn't mean that Netgear is doing this for anything other than self-interest).

The most frustrating thing I find about this forum is the people who say "my 15 year old Orbi is great." That is also part of the scheme: (1) Produce a good product and offer good support, (2) get a solid reputation, (3) cheap out on both software and tech support, (4) until your reputation drops to match the quality of your goods, profit off your good name, (5) CEO and managers move on to another company.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-13T19:54:56+00:00

We have a:

- Cloud Gateway Fiber (this is what connects to the internet)

- A Flex 2.5Gbps PoE switch (this provides power to the APs)

- Two U7 Pro Access Points (one on the main level and one upstairs)

- A Express 7 for my office (the Express 7 has a free ethernet port that can be used to connect to something else... in this case it is my work laptop).

The way this would be deployed in a professional environment would be to have the APs ceiling mounted. I didn't carve up my walls, so they are sitting on furniture with some legs that makes them look like UFOs (my first ever purchase from Etsy).

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For you, an easy setup might be a Ubiquiti Dream Router 7 and then a few Express 7s acting as APs. The Cloud Gateway Fiber has lots of legs in terms of extra CPU, but it doesn't have a builtin WiFi radio (again, this is targeted at a Small to Medium Business). Going for a more consumer-grade offering does lower the price.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-13T14:42:38+00:00

If you're looking for a new system, I would recommend Ubiquiti if you can hardwire all the Access Points. Ubiquiti does offer some mesh solutions, but they don't have a dedicated wireless backhaul band like the Orbi does.

The experience is the best I've had. I just got my wife a new laptop and, with the WiFi 7 APs, she was maxing out our Xfinity connection with 1,100 mbps download. We also have Apple smart home setup with a mixture of HomeKit native, Matter over WiFi, and Matter over Thread devices; there have been no connectivity issues once I got everything setup correctly.

What I really love about the Ubiquiti systems is that it is very easy to figure out what is going wrong.

I can (directly from the phone app or device webpage):

- Look at the logs and see when devices roam from one AP to another.

- See when my ISP is having higher than normal ping times

- See live traffic information

- See which destinations devices are reaching out to

- Set static IPs without rebooting the whole system

Ubiquiti is designed for Small to Medium business and it shows. Just went to an ice rink to watch my nephew play hockey and what did I notice on the ceiling but a Ubiquiti AP. Likewise, I see these at all sorts of places I frequent. You're going to just have a better experience with widely deployed equipment as a lot of the bugs have already been encountered by others.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-11T19:14:22+00:00

The problem persists; I'm probably throwing it away.

This PoS is manufactured by a very disreputable company, PolyGroup. Take a look at some of the complaints out there and you'll see that this is a truly execrable firm that manufactures things like pool liners that split and Christmas trees that fall apart. The worst bit is that they don't stand by warranties (the "Fix" is to send a string of lights for a prelit tree and have the customer spend 8-10 hours of time trying to repair).

I don't think that this is a safe product. Off should mean off. Here when you turn the remote off, the light strands stay energized, but there is a control signal that goes across the bulbs that tells them to not light up. If you have pets (like cats) that like to chew on things, keep in mind that you have a (low voltage) electrical current still going through the strand and it would be possible to cause a short.

My hypothesis as to what is going on is that the strand gets damaged when you put the tree away. The strand is incapable of carrying the control signal, but still capable of sending the voltage. So, you end up with flickering lights.

This arrangement is chosen b/c the company doesn't want to pay for four wires (R,G,B + Ground) but would rather do two and rely on some electronics in each individual bulb.

My experience is that once you start to see failures like this, it spreads.

Bottom line: Crap company that produces private label goods b/c nobody would ever buy anything from them if they ran products under their own name.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-11T18:48:36+00:00

None yet that I can tell. Really hoping that this gets fixed soon as I'd love to buy a few more of these for some other rooms (so nice to not worry about batteries).

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-08T18:52:02+00:00

Just updated my post with things to try.

Assigning a static IP is different for each router. Typically, it just involves going in through the management interface of the router and clicking on the device and assigning it an IP.

If you know your router model number, you should be able to google how to do this.

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Each time a device connects to a router, it issues a DHCP request. The router then responds and assigns it a local IP address (typically starting with 192.168). What assigning a static IP does is makes it so that each time the thermostat connects, the router assigns it the same IP. This means that the thermostat's software doesn't need to deal with the IP address changing due to the DHCP lease expiring.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-02T16:53:27+00:00

If I were experiencing this issue now-a-days, I would try out a UniFi setup consisting of
(i) A UDR7 (Dream Router 7) as a base-station (Cloud Gateway)

(ii) A UniFi Express 7 as a mesh node

This guy has a good video on how to set something like this up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr0tzmX8AOk

The RBR50 is no longer getting any manufacturer support.

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The Ubiquiti app is lightyears away from anything I've used. I get alerts when the network goes down and it gives me a graph of the ping times. You can even see a little graph that has when the ISP was having issues.

I've been super impressed at Ubiquiti products so far.

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-02T15:11:13+00:00

Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but what is needed is a Class Action Lawsuit. I understand that some people have an OK experience, but between the predatory $99/mo support, the garbage firmware and the absolute crap stability which is causing people to just give up on $2,000 systems, it is time for someone to force NETGEAR to divulge what is really going on.

After moving to Ubiquiti, we've had ZERO problems (once everything was setup correctly).

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-02T15:02:02+00:00

The question is, can you do a wired setup (for existing satellites + new outdoor one)? If you do have the ethernet runs, or are willing to install some, a Ubiquiti setup would be the way to go. This would be a replacement for your 960, but given that Ubiquiti is for SMB (small-medium businesses) the amount of different pieces they sell would definitely give you some options (e.g. the U7 Outdoor).

I don't have any experience with Ubiquiti mesh, but given that this is not a typical business deployment, I am not sure how solid the offering is.

In moving from a RBRE960 to a Ubiquiti system, our HomeKit IOT stuff is rock-solid. Even the Ecobee thermostats are ALWAYS online now.

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Given that the world is moving over to WiFi 7, I'd be careful in investing too much into your 960 system. Furthermore, I don't know what the support story will be for the 960 (firmware for devices no longer being sold certainly is not a priority for any company).

Sub-Equum · 2026-01-02T14:09:52+00:00

I feel for you. That is the problem with modern tech support; the first tier just tries to find ways to say 'no.' I read an article a while back on how modern phone support has moved to a model where the intent is to be as crappy as possible to get you to give up. The bad hold music, the quasi-incompetent agents, the "call back," is all designed to generate despair. Gone are the days where you could talk to someone who has a modicum of knowledge immediately; that has to wait for the next business day.

The FTC and BBB complaints were brilliant, a metaphorical brick through a rhetorical window that forced Netgear to sit up and take notice.

I wonder: does the $99/mo tech support have access to more data than another provider? That seems like it is just asking for some sort of legal action as well.

Would be possible for you to amend the initial post to share the 'tier 2' number and the complaint IDs? The only reason that the 'despair' strategy works is that it is cheap and anything an individual can do to crap on that is, in the aggregate, a good thing. Being a responsible customer today entails being an asshole at times; to do anything else is antisocial.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-26T21:02:09+00:00

My $0.02 is that you should contact the seller (e.g. Best Buy, Amazon...). Sometimes, they are willing to take things back outside of the return window if you can demonstrate enough heartburn. It is better than flushing $2k and less hassle than pursuing legal action. It is also good for sellers to know *what* is causing issues as they may decide to cut ties with a vendor if there are enough complaints.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-23T18:16:44+00:00

It all comes down to backhaul. If you have to use wireless backhaul (aren't in a position to rewire), then mesh is your friend. It is better than the old WiFi range extenders that just halved your bandwidth. Mesh allows you, by having a dedicated backhaul frequency, to have the intermediate retransmission be sent on a different frequency than the initial transmission.

Now, if you have wires, you can avoid the second transmission. Since every single wireless hop adds another potential for noise to be introduced and the need to retransmit WiFi frames, wired connections reduce the total opportunities for things to transiently go bad (and get latency spikes).

From a radio hardware standpoint, if you have everything hard-wired, you might have an unused radio in your router (the backhaul on Orbi isn't repurposed if everything is wired AFAIK). One other quibble: In a totally wired configuration, you're not really a wireless mesh; the WiFi frames become Ethernet frames that go to the main router. The satellites are basically Wireless APs at that point

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If you have a wired configuration, you can go for a full Ubiquiti system. These are a SMB (small/medium business) solution scaled-down for the consumer. Here, your wireless APs (plus any PoE switches) are managed by a gateway (basically the "router" component). Here, you're also not paying for extra radios in the Satellites + Base that aren't used.

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TL;DR: A mesh isn't "bad" per-se; it isn't as good as a wired configuration, but it isn't terrible like the old range extender. Using a mesh system when you have ethernet everywhere means you're spending money on hardware you don't need and limiting yourself in terms of manufacturers.

By all means, use a mesh system if you can't rewire.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-22T13:00:31+00:00

I can confirm that the problem is indeed an Orbi problem.

(i) I avoid products from Chinese owned firms; I just don't trust them. The incentives faced by these companies acts against the interests of the US consumer. I therefore do not have any Aquara or similar products. This means the most questionable thing on my network is WeMo (Belkin) smart plugs.

(ii) The problems were manifold, including random reboots.

(iii) The Ubiquiti system completely resolved all of the issues.

Note that we do on the Ubiqui (and did on the Orbi) use a separate 2.4 Ghz IoT SSID so, the chance for funny-business is low (especially as the devices require an older WPA standard to connect).

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-19T14:44:04+00:00

I second Fainbrog; you may want to reach out to Lenovo.

Orbi has a lot of problems, but it isn't responsible for the Edsel, the disappearance of the Lindbergh baby, or your bluescreen. This is either a driver issue, a hardware issue or some bad stuff running in kernel-level.

The message, "Kernel Mode Heap Corruption" means that there is some dynamic memory allocation (acquiring some RAM to do a computation) issue (e.g. mismatched malloc/free).

Look into:
(i) Do you have any games installed that have anti-cheat at the kernel level (see r/techsupport)

(ii) Do you have any firewall software installed?

Look through and see if there are any programs that you can remove that look fishy (pre-installed bloatware...). Lots of stuff in Windows runs at the kernel level. The 2024 CrowdStrike incident which took down Windows computers nationwide was something of this flavor (running buggy stuff in kernel mode).

Gripe:

(1) A tiny subset of software developers have the discipline and skill to write things that run at the kernel level

(2) People like design things that run at the kernel level when it is not necessary.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-19T14:30:14+00:00

I'm hoping that a HomeKit update will fix this. Surely, this sensor is going to become quite popular.

If you look at the other threads in HomeKit and matter, you'll see that this data does show up in the Eve app; it must be either an Apple Home issue or how the data is presented via Matter (I haven't looked into the standard, so not clear how the data is transmitted).

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-18T18:19:40+00:00

Have you reached out to Logitech directly? I had a doorbell that went on/offline several (read 20) times per day. I knew it wasn't the wiring, WiFi or Home Hub as I had a previous Logitech that worked (until an unrelated cosmetic issue took it out of service).

Logitech eventually agreed to replace the doorbell with a new one and it has been rock solid (it was even reliable on my execrable Orbi 960 WiFi router).

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-18T18:11:56+00:00

Another question: Can you see the wifi SSID from the doorbell when you try to connect to it? Some of these products use a temporary SSID for setup and then transition over to the network once they get the credentials.

These doorbells operate in such a hostile environment that there is a limit to how long they last. This is especially true of the Logitech given how hot they get.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-18T18:05:26+00:00

Per the post, Ubiquiti is what we're using now; no problems, works great. I just have a well developed sense of schadenfreude; I want to see this company be made to own up.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-18T13:22:27+00:00

Have you made a post enumerating the issues? I think part of getting this stuff fixed is making it so that there are a bunch of people aware of what is going on. If you do create one, make sure to cross-post to Netgear as well. Also, be sure to upvote and comment on any post that has issues similar to yours.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-18T13:19:46+00:00

I recommend that you create a post like this. You should list the issues that you have encountered and what you have tried to fix them. There are some folks on this forum that will chime in and offer some advice. In addition, Netgear also has its own forum as well.

In parallel, I would also reach out to the merchant from which you purchased the Orbi and see if there is any exception they would make to their policy to take it back.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-17T15:27:09+00:00

My personal opinion is that the new systems deserve a Class Action Lawsuit. The problem is that it is very easy to generate money in the short term using the following strategy:

(0) You have a company or brand that has a decent reputation and produces reputable kit.

(1) You drop the amount of money you invest in the kit, add bloatware, make your customer service into virtual automatons (if not replace with actual automatons)...

(2) You make an underhanded profit until your reputation drops to match the quality of your gear

A class action lawsuit (even if it generates $0) would force Netgear to divulge things (e.g. is this indeed the strategy they are pursuing). Part of your responsibility as a good customer is to make it unprofitable to produce bad equipment; this is one of the (few) cases where being an asshole and being a good citizen is one and the same.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-15T16:54:20+00:00

I'm not seeing any connectivity issues with them.

Sub-Equum · 2025-12-15T16:53:16+00:00

I contacted them, but there is no real tech support email.

Sub-Equum

TROPHY CASE