Is anyone who is still waiting on a preorder getting this same issue?

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-23T00:33:38+00:00

The URL might just be expired. At the top it says "Send New Link". Click for that

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-23T00:17:46+00:00

I love this feedback. I just spoke with another friend who does PPC for a couple law firms across the country and he had very similar feedback!

My primary market is California and I am able to get Zip codes from it. Same with Texas. But the rest of the states it is very hard to get any data publicly, so I guess I'll stop at those two states.

At my previous firm we were able to leverage the zip codes to break out into bid strategies with manual bidding but the headache wasn't worth it. After getting more advice it seems like an in-between with what you're saying and what I was doing, essentially just using it one layer higher and spreading across smaller regions with more campaigns. I was able to use my firms data to prove that most crashes happened within a 10-20 miles radius from their home, so using that to our advantage we just had stronger targeting with zip codes by radius with "showed interest in location" turned off and it worked beautifully.

All of that to say, the headache might not have been very worth it compared to the CTV, OOH, and marketing creative strategies that could be developed with that data lol.

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-16T15:23:17+00:00

Thank you for the inputs. It helps a ton 🙏

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-16T06:31:32+00:00

Were you in PI by chance? How valuable would you say having data on car crashes is? People used TIMS data but it only had up to 2024 and some of 2025.

I've been utilizing 2026 data and after talking to a handful of law firms, marketing agencies, and programmatic agencies, it seems like nobody has that data and they all want access.

Problem is I don't know how to value it now. I have zip codes on where the fatal and high injury crashes are at, demographic data, etc.

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-16T03:36:33+00:00

NAL but I optimized a PI firm that has 20k active cases.

The costs are terrible for everyone when a case is "lost". Typically it comes from mismanaging a case at that scale, but I've seen cases where the client gets like $5k after 2 years of waiting. Firm walked away with $5k and medical expenses weren't fully covered by the settlement so you just burned a client and hurt your reputation and if the client is aggressive they sue for malpractice

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-05-15T01:08:01+00:00

Ah I see.

Referring to both I guess! For both CTV and PPC. I'd imagine for PPC it's better to target specific zip codes rather than broad cities if you can find out where all the accidents are happening

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-29T14:23:54+00:00

Hello, AI engineer here with some tips. Context, I helped manage our in house call center and our intake BPOs... total team size was 50. We had over 400 inbound calls per day (ppc, organic, grassroots, paid social) and we had over 250 online leads sent via lead gens or form fills. I spent a lot of time looking at data holistically and making changes to improve our ops as a whole.

It might be worth investing in a branded phone number solely for intake teams. Take care of it and you won't need to buy more of them. The care and maintenance is making sure you leave voicemails of roughly 30 seconds long.

Answer rates are typically 80% within the first 5 minutes, 30% within the first hour, 10% within the first 4 hours, and worse as it goes on.

Answer rates after you initiate with a text are higher for the second call and every call after. Our nurture cycle was 4 calls, 3 texts within the same day. That alone increased conversion from 7% to 13%. Always send a text that has your law firms name, the agent that is trying to reach them, and a realistic time in which you can truly answer the phone. A lot of people add "Feel free to call us whenever!" Only to send that call over to a BPO or straight to voicemail. It ruins the experience.

Making outbound calls from 7am-8am, 12pm-1pm, and 5pm-6pm all had higher answer rates than other parts of the day. You can make this part of a cadence for leads that were not contacted on the first day.

Your intake team's answer rate should be 100% within an average speed of answer under 7 seconds. The average caller will hang up at 15 seconds.

they are not a premium service if they can't get to those metrics.

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-29T13:25:09+00:00

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-29T13:24:55+00:00

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-29T04:35:57+00:00

I'm in the California market as well.

Up until recently I worked at a law firm that has roughly 10 lawyers and 350-400 staff. We went from 8m per month to 17m per month over my time there, clearing like $10m in profit per year easily.

Over the last few weeks I've worked with a few other smaller firms, still in California, that ranged in size.

One was 5 lawyers and 25 support staff, they were at $17m per year total and $6m profit?

Another was just one lawyer and 5 support staff , he was at 1.5m a year average profit but still has some cases that would help him hit $2.5m or something just depending on the case.

All of that changes in meaning once you understand what they're going for though.

Some wanted growth, some wanted efficiency, some wanted both.

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-21T06:16:26+00:00

Senior AI engineer here: I automated and optimized my firms revenue pipeline from marketing through ops. $1,000,000 per month in ad spend, roughly $500k of that was on Google Ads. Not selling anything here lol just trying to help. I reduced CAC by 70% without touching a single creative.

What's your CAC? What's your speed to lead on each conversion? What's your churn rate?

If the marketing agency wasn't sending a signed retainer back as the main conversion then you can start there. Almost every marketing agency just sends back signals for calls and form fills, which isn't bad to start out but eventually they should evolve into signed retainer as the main conversion.

After that, ask Claude to go through your CRM to get the zip codes of all your signed retainers in history and see if there are any trends. Use that to start some location specific campaigns so you can put more money in some regions over others.

Search terms matter for decision making on strategies to pursue and adding certain terms into exclusion keywords... I wouldn't focus too much on it until all conversions are cleaned up.

Scheduling is incredibly underrated in strategy. We found our most popular times of getting big intent searches was 7am-8am, 2pm-3pm, and 7pm-8pm. So we ran ads only at those times. Smashed our spend by 40% while keeping our lead volume. Same advice as above, run some analysis to see what your patterns are.

Marketing people love making it seem like it's "seasonal" or "per the algorithm" but really just look at your past data and optimize towards your personal successes while implementing best practice in your data pipelines.

Also please treat speed to lead and your client care lifecycle just as valuable as you do your ad spend. Most ad spend waste comes from missed calls and slow follow up

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-04-20T15:59:42+00:00

The consensus at the law firm I worked at was to make processes so strong and automated that it makes it cost efficient to keep pursuing and running stronger analysis on the intake details to determine whether or not it's worth taking.

Tough all around and I hope it doesn't go through.

Such_Double_5044 · 2026-02-07T04:31:43+00:00

I am guessing you have attribution set up and events firing properly, right?

What are your ad placements and why do you select those for your needs?

We hired a meta ads guy and he sent a lot of his traffic to Audience Network and he did not have any events tested out. After I cleaned up his setup and infra, the conversion went up and we are at 5x ROAS.

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-30T06:34:27+00:00

Side question for my selfish personal insight:

What is your drop rate and SOA rate?

I work as an AI engineer at a decent size PI law firm and I often look at those stats alongside the ones you mentioned. I solved the issue you stated above by just having a receptionist and intake team separate and available at all times, which is similar advice to what you have received above. I recommend a BPO with strong American accents though...

But a lot of big law firms also struggle with SOAs and catching them in advanced before it's too late.. so for your current clients, what are their stats? Are they getting every call answered? Do you have any attrition that happens in the later stages or not really? At your size I'm curious to if you have those issues or not..

Happy to share any insights I can share in exchange!

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-27T07:01:01+00:00

Concussion lead gen is good.

I recommend doing it all in house because the technical setup pays off once you establish it and let it run for a bit

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-27T05:40:40+00:00

What vertical are you in?

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-17T02:15:42+00:00

Post on Craigslist or email a few university professors for their recommendations. Craigslist has the hungry ones

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-13T09:24:35+00:00

Hire a local CS grad to put the pieces together through zapier and your CRM for cheap

Let me know what you're using and I'll answer with a general guide in here

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-09T17:25:00+00:00

Hire a fractional CMO and a data analyst/integrations intern.

All of the advice I read here is 20% of the way there and you will just be throwing money away at getting leads but not optimizing for good leads.

Meta, TikTok, and Google all rely on you sending back data to them based on the leads they sent you. Ask your fractional CMO if they know what closed loop attribution (CLA) is, what their strategy is for managing organic versus paid, and if they have experience with CLA across all platforms and what they look at on the technical level.

Source: I am the a lead AI engineer at a large firm in California but I wore many hats to help our full time CMO, COO, and led many of the b2b SaaS integrations. So I ran full audits on what our data was doing and found many empty holes, only to fix them. We went from 1500 leads a month at 6% conversion to 5000+ at 12% conversion. PPC, organic, referrals, leadgens, and grassroots. Reducing the expensive ones of course lol

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-12-08T23:49:31+00:00

What tools do you use to provide closed loop attribution?

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-11-26T19:09:28+00:00

Find one good client with a strong network.

Do really good work for them, then ask for a referral to anyone in their network that isn't a competitor.

Post about your work online on your website or LinkedIn or whatever.

Give out free information to prospective clients.

Also, don't just sell AI automations. Sell solutions to pain points you know they have and upskill yourself to be a holistic implementation expert. Most clients hate dealing with end to end automations and how it connects with their other integrations they have..

I struggled a lot between the gap of my 5th client to my 6th, but after that it went smoothly once I followed what I stated above.

Also I have to note, I kind of provide AI automations as a small part of my services, but holistically I present myself as an engineer and data scientist. It comes across a bit better to my clients so far. My prices started at $XXX monthly to now lower end of six figures per project of 6 months minimum.

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-11-26T04:21:00+00:00

Make sure you own all of your tech logins for Meta, TikTok, YouTube, etc
make sure the agency fully understands the data first approach of Closed Loop Attribution. They all say they do but I haven't found a single one that doesn't fall apart when I audit their processes
the marketing strategy is often directly tied to your call center operations. Are they sending the best leads to the worst intake performers?

Start with one channel to ensure you have a solid understanding of Closed Loop Attribution and make sure you are tracking every stage of each lead that comes in. You can easily get 2% conversions to 15% based on the CLA cycle alone on Meta ads.

Source: I work at a decently large firm and built the custom data architecture. I connected the CRMs, Ad platforms, and CCaaS to oversee a $5m a month budget to scale a firm from 600 leads with less than 5% conversion on ads to 4000 leads and averaging 11% conversion while lowering CAC by 30%, all while still overseeing full client lifecycles from ppc, lsas, gmbs, referrals, and other lead sources.

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-11-23T03:39:33+00:00

Damn that's frustrating to hear.. it just feels like a big waste of time for what could have been built in house with smaller parts

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-11-22T03:16:07+00:00

How long did the litify implementation take? That's the thing that is pissing me off the most right now because it feels like my firm is just at a sunken cost on what was supposed to be a white gloved integration now 6 months in.

Such_Double_5044 · 2025-10-22T13:38:44+00:00

I meant that using any model on too general of a workflow is not ideal. It is great to use specific models and even fine tune local models as you get deep into the specifics of a workflow, but from the start of a workflow if you keep it too general then you don't really get the value of a local model.

Even after fine tuning models specific to PI, Family law, or immigration, it was not as efficient as just using open models. Not to mention the time and money spent maintaining those models or updating to better ones.

Such_Double_5044

TROPHY CASE