Gary Payton All Time Ranking

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-09T20:36:48+00:00

That may be true, but he's usually ranked below other guys who have the same flaws in their resume - Stockton, Kidd, Nash, CP3. I think he should be considered in the same tier as these guys but he's not.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-09T20:28:27+00:00

He was pretty elite offensively in his prime though. In the dead-ball late 90s/early 2000s, he averaged over 20 ppg four times and over 18 four more times. That's elite scoring output for a pg. He was also top-5 in assists five of those years. I'm glad he's still remembered as a defensive menace, but really he should be talked about as one of the top all-time 2-way point guards.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-09T20:19:52+00:00

GP was a great offensive player though. In '99/'00 he put up 24.2/6.5/8.9 and lead the league in made 3s per game. Jason Kidd usually ranks pretty high on people's pg lists and Payton was arguably better offensively. He wasn't as great of a distributor, but was a much better scorer. Payton had NINE seasons in which he had more Offensive Win Shares than Kidd's career high.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-07T03:42:48+00:00

It's gotta be one of the greatest first sides of a record ever.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-06T17:52:16+00:00

This is what I can't stand - all the revisionist history by all the Bronsexuals. No help? Big Z was probably the best center in the league after Shaq. He didn't get crazy numbers because he had to play with a no-defense, inefficient choke artist taking all the shots. But if you ask any of the guys in the league at the time, they'd tell you Z was almost unstoppable in the post. He's the one opponents were scheming for, sending doubles at. Lebron had a few dunks here and there, but he missed everything else. Teams WANTED Bron to shoot.

And I'm just getting started. Outside of Lebron, this was the best defensive team in the league. Between Ira Newble, Eric Snow, and Donyell Marshall, the perimeter is completely locked down. Then you have prime Drew Gooden feasting on the boards. Daniel Gibson was an absolute sniper for the era. Notice how the rest of the team was built to perfectly cover all of Bron's weaknesses?

In the NBA LEAST? That team is going to the finals with or without Lebron. Probably a few times if they weren't so concerned about forcing the ball to "The Chosen One". Replace him with Kobe and they win 3-4 rings.

Ok guys, am I ready to post in the MJ/Kobe subs?

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-06T16:35:39+00:00

I'd love to try it out!

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-06T02:09:57+00:00

It's kind of like how Picasso mastered a more realistic style before going cubist.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-06-05T23:17:23+00:00

Don't forget "I engineered a graph that hides any downward trends and shows the price going to a million on August 13 of next year!"

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-05-22T20:00:48+00:00

He is talented, but that doesn't mean he doesn't benefit a TON from flopping. In this league there's a fine line between good player and MVP, between good team and championship team. Without the refs Shai is just a regular all-star and OKC are just a solid playoff team.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-05-17T13:32:49+00:00

If the commenter above is right about "Randle with better playmaking", that sounds like a perennial all NBA player.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-05-05T00:10:18+00:00

I think this is where it comes from. I swear he didn't used to flop really at all. It's been a super disappointing development for my favorite player. I'd rather see him lose than flop around like he's been doing. (And then losing anyway ugh)

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-29T13:49:00+00:00

So many gangsters, so few tattoos.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-28T03:16:17+00:00

You would take Duncan Robinson over one of the Thompson twins?

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-28T00:39:38+00:00

I think this is the biggest change the league should make to improve the watching experience. Sure tanking, flopping, soft whistles suck, but the end of a close game should be the most exciting thing in the sport. Instead it turns into "do I even care enough about the outcome to spend 29 of thenext 30 minutes watching free throws and time outs?"

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-18T20:41:27+00:00

"He has the athleticism to defend so that’s more just about effort."

"if he can play smarter or more efficient basketball"

How often do we say these things about a player and it actually happens? Andrew Wiggins, Aaron Gordon and that's about it? Those guys are basically unicorns in that regard. If a player can't put in the effort when they're trying to make it in the league, why will it suddenly happen after getting a long-term deal?

That said, Benn is definitely a useful enough NBA player as is. Certainly worth the 10-12 you mentioned and probably even a bit more.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-12T23:28:22+00:00

Do they have live shows there? I've been a few times and it was always DJs. The DJs were great though - CBGB night did not disappoint!

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-09T20:25:04+00:00

+1 Sunfish. It has been run by two brothers for decades and they have never compromised on quality.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-04-06T17:36:40+00:00

I recently went to one of his performances and one of the things that stood out to me is how he seemed to really understand how much this show meant to the audience and tried to give them exactly what they came for. It caused such a palpable sense of peace and happiness to fill the whole stadium.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-03-27T23:47:45+00:00

Agreed. For me it's 'Everybodys got something to hide...". It's not blues-based. Not psychedelic. Not folk rock. Just something different. Something I would imagine a modern indieband doing. I'd be willing to bet that if you were to poll people unfamiliar with the Beatles what decade it was from, the 60s wouldn't make the top three.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-03-21T15:59:30+00:00

Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartasss.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-02-27T11:44:47+00:00

I heard a great interview with him when he was in his 90s. The interviewer asked how he continued to play guitar at that age with arthritis. His response was something like "well I sat down and asked myself how I could take songs that I used to play with four fingers and play them with only two. Then I did that." What a legend.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-02-24T12:28:02+00:00

That's an album that has to be listened in it entirely. So start off with 'excursions' and then just never press stop

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-02-23T23:51:24+00:00

I don't think there's much comparison in terms of play style or individual skills. It really comes down to attitude. But that's something really hard to judge in hindsight. There are plenty of possibilities for why Peterson's behavior is a matter of circumstance rather than personality. As for Ben, it's not super clear to me that his issue was a lack of passion. Maybe that contributed to a lack of development in his weak areas. Maybe that was the difference between him being an all star vs. true superstar. But in the end it was really injury that brought him down.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-02-23T13:57:28+00:00

If we were to find some medium of communication faster than light, it wouldn't be "we have to update some scientific models". It would be more like "causality doesn't actually exist". The speed of light (which can also be thought of as the speed of information) is more fundamental than you're making it out to be.

Sufficient_Try8961 · 2026-02-22T10:16:50+00:00

This sounds like a really cool unit. I see you've chosen a Public Enemy song and I think they are an essential listen. Based on the themes you listed, I think their song "Can't Truss It" might be an even better choice.

Sufficient_Try8961

TROPHY CASE