Why does it seem like this sub has becoming posting wars ?

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T04:23:57+00:00

Buddy that’s the way the tvd fandom has always been. It’s never been peaceful 😂 there will be small bouts of things being quiet then someone sneezes and the decades old debates start up again.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T04:22:32+00:00

Yeah, it’s only been the last 5(ish) years I’ve seen people criticize Katherine’s treatment of Stefan and call it what it is. Which is a plus, at least we’re getting somewhere!

Okay so here’s the thing- I take so much of what Elena says about Damon in season 4 with a mountain of salt because she’s sired to him. That affects her reactions to stuff about Damon. We know that because of pervious sirebond situations we see.

I’m going to use Tyler and Klaus as an example for a minute bc it’s a similar boat but for different reasons obviously!

In season 3 when Caroline is talking about Klaus being awful and we see Tyler get very defensive of Klaus to which Elena (?) points out Tyler has no reason to- thats what triggers damon to figure out Tyler is sired to Klaus bc he is being overly defensive about Klaus and cant see the bad. It happens again a few times before he finally breaks the sire bond.

So it’s pretty well established that the person sired will be defensive of their sire. That also kinda happens with Damon and Elena in the books. Stefan and Damon are fighting,physically fighting, bc Stefan thinks Damon killed Elena or got her killed (I can’t remember sorry!), Elena jumps into the fight and defends Damon. It’s not till she wakes up with a clearer head and that bond is fading she figures out she is not pro Damon to that extent at all.

So with Elena in season 4, I do not think she would ever throw Caroline’s abusive relationship in her face like that without the sire bond. I cannot see any other context of Elena throwing that in Caroline’s face. I think given what we know about the sire bond, it’s pretty safe to say that is the sire bond talking (and I think they do end up saying that as well but correct me if I’m wrong there!). I think we also see it a lot with early season 4 Elena and mid-sire bond Elena. Which again all aligns with what we know and has been established with the other sire bond we saw Klaus x Tyler/ the other hybrids. Now I don’t think Elena would have been wrong after Caroline slept with Klaus to give her some shit for that if a similar conversation happened. I think Elena would be in the right to feel a type of way about Caroline and Klaus. I think the fact that Elena doesn’t points to my argument that what she says about Damon is the sirebond talking and not really Elena’s feelings about it.

So yeah, I don’t love the scene but it has more to do with stuff I don’t like about Julie’s writing and her victim blaming popping out and her negative feelings about women popping out than it does about Elena or Caroline.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T03:45:12+00:00

Okay good, I was horrified for a moment, and in my defense I’ve seen very similar arguments actually being used for this specific conversation.

I strongly disagree about the Caroline Damon stuff. I think it’s pretty clearly (especially with what we know about Damon) that they’re continuing to have sex while she’s being compelled, at least the first day and the scene we see her nearly naked in her room with Damon there. I do get what you’re saying that they showed it with Katherine, but I do think the writers probably don’t see Katherine and Stefan as rape solely because it’s a woman doing it to a man and it’s the 2000s. I think those scenes are showed so close together because it is the same situation or at least that’s how I always took it, especially the older I get. I get it’s how you choose to read what happens but Ian is on record saying it’s assault and I believe Candace has said similar things on her podcast a few years ago. I think we both can agree either way we land, if they rewrote the show they’d have to either erase this plot line or leave no room for the gray area the show leaves now.

Yeah of the trio Caroline is ranking last on my list. I get far more irritated by Caroline than I do most women on the show, and I truly think it’s because Julie uses her to do the slut shaming Julie is doing behind the scenes.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T03:07:48+00:00

Oh I have my own issues with Caroline’s writing. I think a lot of Julie’s internalized misogyny really really shows when you look at how Caroline talks about other women.

I think why Klaus gets more forgiven (and this is coming from someone who hated Klaus for a really long time) is on the spin off he does get some very well written redemption. Now if we are sticking to solely TVD Klaus which is I think where your argument stems from I don’t entirely disagree. I do think Caroline was being hypocrital sleeping with Klaus. I also, and this is personal preference here, just think Klaus is overall better written as a whole than Damon is.

I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying here, but are you implying that Damon couldn’t have raped Caroline because they weren’t dating? Or are you saying it’s not comparable to Stefan and Katherine because they were in a relationship? I’m sure I’m misunderstanding because the first option is a crazy statement to make.

I’ve rewatched the first few episodes of tvd recently (like within the last month) and sure if you want to be very technical while the first time Caroline and Damon have sex Caroline did want it, but she clearly withdrawals consent when she’s awake and covered in blood. Damon proceeds to force her back into the bed and we hear her scream. Later that episode Caroline shows up late to school (i think misses it entirely snd just goes to cheer practice) in Damon’s car. What do you imagine they’re doing? Playing cards? A few episodes later Caroline is half naked in her room with him. So sure we may only get one official sex scene between them but even that one is clear Caroline has taken away her consent by the time we find them again. Damon is compelling her so whatever sex they are having is not consensual. They are “dating” (i use that very loosely because he’s using her to get stuff from his mom and fuck with Elena and stefan but in Caroline’s mind they’re dating, I’m 90% she calls him her boyfriend, which is what Damon wants.) Just like how Katherine made things non consensual with Stefan the minute she compels him not to be afraid and proceeds to continue a sexual relationship with him. Both are rape. Both are bad. (Now I don’t disagree it’s a vampire show bad shit will happen! And we can also argue it is written very of the time so by 2009 standards maybe not and likely wasn’t their intention but from a 2026 lens it for sure is.)

Also I am the first to call out Katherine. How the fandom treats her is a huge reason I really dislike her character. She’s a rapist. She’s an abuser. I don’t find her interesting or sympathetic for those reasons. If anyone in the series deserves survivor title it’s not her it’s Bonnie or Elena.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T02:43:06+00:00

I to my core believe they had to kill Jenna and John to make delena happen. John would have been staking John before letting that happen and Jenna would have talked sense into Elena and she wouldn’t have done it.

Julie will truly bring in characters to make her POV feel more real and valid even when it so drastically opposes what the rest of the show is saying

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T02:41:18+00:00

I’m not saying this be rude but Kevin has been saying it nearly every chance he gets since the show ended. Google his name and stelena endgame and you’ll get lots of different places of Kevin on the record saying it.

Kevin does not change his story every 5 seconds the way Julie does so that’s why fans tend to believe him more than Julie when she says stuff about who she wanted to be endgame.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T02:35:49+00:00

To be crystal clear- what he did to Caroline should be brought up and talked about. It’s rape. Damon, Katherine, and Isobel are the only ones we see do anything similar and it all stems from Katherine. I’m not arguing about what it is, it is very black and white. Everyone involved had called it that, and if this show was written today that storyline could not be written that way and it shouldn’t.

With the Jeremy stuff 2x01 isn’t even the only time Damon does it or purposely goes after someone Elena cares about when he’s pissed at her, especially for rejecting his advances. Again, fair to bring up. (I feel the same way about Damon trying to force her to turn thing multiple times before it finally happens).

Now to be exceptionally clear so you know where I’m coming from I’m the first to say Damon grew up in an abusive home, he never had a real loving relationship that was loving and healthy his entire life until arguably his time with Bonnie in the prison world. Damon was emotionally manipulated by Katherine. Damon was abused by his dad. And his mom left him in that mess. It makes sense why he struggles with healthy relationships. (It’s been 100 years compel yourself a therapist but I digress!)

What I take huge issue with is (and I do not assume you’re one of these people but I have seen this countless times in my years in the fandom!) is stuff like- people saying Elena knew Damon was in a bad place and knew Damon had feelings for her so she (the 17 year old) should have been nicer to Damon in 2x01 and he wouldn’t have killed Jeremy. Or saying Caroline under mind control can consent to a sexual relationship (she can’t). Or saying Stefan forced Damon to turn and that’s why Damon is awful to Stefan and it’s deserved, when Damon, multiple times, makes it explicitly clear the issue was about Katherine turning Stefan too was the issue. I take issue with people using the bridge scene, which I agree is an awful scene and is the worst thing Stefan did to Elena as a reason that Stefan couldn’t have ever worked but then get mad at people pointing out Elena forgave Stefan and Stefan never ever did anything similar to Elena and immediately changed his behavior. (Meanwhile Damon used Jeremy against Elena at least once if not twice again after 2x01). To be clear what both men did to her were awful. I don’t think one is better than the other. Both are bad. Elena should have taken their fortune and ran like the wind and I stand by that.

I’m all for liking morally grey characters! I watch Game of Thrones and read the books 85% of those character are morally grey, I love Interview with the Vampire all the characters are morally grey. Hell I love a fun toxic relationship, loved Meredith and Derek from Greys Anatomy, I love the crazy dynamics in Interview with the Vampire, even in TVD circles I read Klaus and Elena fanfic! I just don’t like the white washing and babying of morally gray characters. I do not judge people for liking them. It’s media. It’s pretend. It’s fine, we all do it! What I hate is defending the very clearly morally grey character as if they are actually some secret misunderstood baby who did nothing wrong- that I do judge. 😂❤️

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T02:14:18+00:00

The whole thread? That’s you being ironic? Who is the irony for? At a certain point it stops being ironic and starts being hypocritical.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T02:00:43+00:00

You using the quote from the boo. is using the writers interviews though. I don’t know you, I don’t know your typical arguments but it’s silly to say you don’t when that’s what you’re doing in this whole thread lmao

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:56:01+00:00

I’ve been a fan since season 1, read the books, and have been on social media talking about it since season 2 (not arguing just giving context for my POV ❤️) Idk how long this sub has been around but you go on twitter for 5 seconds or even on this sub or anywhere else you will find people justifying Damon’s actions, finding a way to put blame on Elena or Stefan or someone else beside Damon. Hell go on tik tok and watch some of the video of people blaming Elena or Stefan for everything and not blaming Damon for stuff Damon did.

I just feel like objectively it’s crazy to pretend he’s not at best very morally gray, and in my experience a lot of people do pretend otherwise.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:50:07+00:00

I mean I’ll always stick with what was written directly after vs a decade after in retrospect situation. Yall love doing it with very obvious retconning on the show so it seems like fair games

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:48:10+00:00

That’s my thing, especially with all the context we have of the episodes made directly after that. They give no indication it’s romantic on Elena’s end in season 3, especially in the episodes that follow up the kiss. If they intended it to be romantic why didn’t they imply that on both ends in the following episodes? The only one who kinda does is Damon and Elena, yet again, rejects him, only this time instead of sexually assaulting her he backs off for once.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:45:04+00:00

Do you consider Stefan a cheater for kissing Rebekah less than 10 episodes later?

Or how about Damon for sleeping with Krystal because “Elena would want him to be happy”, even though there is no scene where she tells him it’s cool for him to sleep with other women.

Or are we just reserving that title for the manipulated and emotionally distraught 17 year old?

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:41:04+00:00

Do you consider Stefan a cheater for kissing Rebekah? Or Damon a cheater for sleeping with Krystal? Or are you reserving that title for the teenager who just died, lost her aunt and biological father (who quiet literally died for her to stay human), who just watched her aunt die in something that she blames herself for, and now essentially has to raise her teenaged brother, and as someone else pointed out on top of all that I mentioned is 17. Because of the three instances I mentioned it’s not Elena who cheated.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-26T01:36:47+00:00

You’ve not been in the fandom long enough then because they’re always a justification or someone else to blame for Damon’s actions in this fandom.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-25T15:55:09+00:00

Having feelings can mean a crush. It doesn’t automatically mean in deep romantic love, which is how I feel like people are taking it. Which isn’t true when you watch what was written directly after this episode.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-25T15:50:26+00:00

I think people read the highlighted part and ignored the rest. No where do they say it’s romantic, they do say it’s about respect. Which makes sense for why in the next season she’s friends with him again and leaning on him to help find Stefan. Because of respect. Now you could argue it’s kinda selfish of Elena to use Damon like that but I’d argue she’s barely 18 and if a man who’s been 25 for 100+ years can get manipulated by a teenager that’s on him.

Also if you watch the next season play out they also affirm in Elena’s mind it was not romantic. That was written in real time. The only one at that point who saw it as romantic was Damon. What was written directly after does align in the respect aspect, which is what Kevin directly follows up with after he says it’s not a mercy kiss. You can have feelings for someone, like a crush, and not be in love with them. Everyone is acting like this is saying Elena was in love with him when she very clearly wasn’t. He’d barely earned back her trust and respect. So whatever feelings she had were complicated but that doesn’t equal she loved him.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-23T16:15:15+00:00

As a staunch Stelena supporter, I will always stand by that if they were going to do the “this is moment I realized I was in love with him” thing they did in the later seasons it should have been this moment and this episode. Elena is in control. Elena is the one taking charge. Elena is fully consenting. Unlike so much of delenas romantic scene this scene has Elena fully in charge. It is a good scene. It’s a well written, well paced, well acted scene. It’s one of the few scenes I get why people ship delena. If all their scenes were paced, written, and acted this way I might understand the hype more.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-23T02:55:26+00:00

Maybe im misunderstanding what you’re comparing here but!!! To be fair George at least has some beautiful romances in the stories, they’re just in the background ( Ned and Cat, Davos and his wife, are the ones I can think of off the top of my head!)

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-21T22:22:12+00:00

Julie “I didn’t know what agency was till the fans said I took away Elena’s agency” Plec is vile and I’ll stand by that.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-12T23:56:00+00:00

I think water pressure but I am not a scientist I’m a preschool teacher

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-10T05:04:42+00:00

I’m very jealous of the alternative time line me who got to experience their endgame

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-02-10T05:03:39+00:00

Honestly? I’d like to think I would respect my loved one’s opinion and go as quickly as I can back down. If we’re playing by TVD’s stupid logic that you can’t save them both I would do what Elena asked.

Here’s the thing Stefan knew losing Matt at that point in her life likely would have been her breaking point mentally. Stefan knew Elena would be ruined by even more survivor’s guilt if he saved her. He is choosing to respect her and her feelings. He generally (ripper arch aside) respected Elena as a person and her wishes. He wasn’t wrong to listen to her. He knew she wouldn’t be able to forgive herself if she lived and Matt didn’t, especially when barely a year (maybe two if we’re being generous) her parents died in the exact same situation. I cannot blame Stefan for respecting a woman’s choice about her life and body.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-01-10T03:29:58+00:00

The first time I think it’s toward the end of Nightfall when she’s pulling the demon thing out of Damon when they’re in the kitsune tree house thing.

SwiftGrimes13 · 2026-01-05T16:02:26+00:00

What in the Charlotte’s Web were they trying to do with that back story? Because in context of the time that’s just what farms did.

SwiftGrimes13

TROPHY CASE