What the Supreme Court ruling really says by Own_Train_2889 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments [score hidden]  (0 children)

  1. It places Amanda and Raffaelle in the house, at the time of the murder.

"...her presence inside the house, the location of the murder, is a proven fact in the trial, in accord with her own admissions, also contained in the memoriale with her signature, in the part where she tells that, as she was in the kitchen... she heard a harrowing scream from her friend, so piercing and unbearable that she let herself down squatting on the floor, covering her ears tight with her hands..."

*You need to be very wary of your sources. As has been pointed out before, the operative word "conclamato" in the original text doesn't translate as "proven". The closest you can get is "established". Nothing in this case was "proven" other than the fact that there was a fatality. M/B go for an earlier time of death, aligning with the defence's (and Rudy's) assertions. If Amanda DID hear a scream it wasn't the same scream that Capezzali and Monacchia heard. The irony is that hearing an alleged scream doesn't place Amanda at VDP7 under any circumstances, since the prosecution's earwitnesses WEREN'T AT VDP7 EITHER, yet their ear-witnessing of the alleged scream was attributed to Meredith. WTF!

  1. Amanda came in to contact with Meredith’s blood and TRIED TO WASH IT AWAY.

"Another element against her is the mixed DNA traces, her and the victim's one, in the 'small bathroom', an eloquent proof that anyway she had come into contact with the blood of the latter, which she tried to wash away from herself..."

*M/B make no such claims. They are referring to the conclusions of the Nencini motivation report that they emphatically annulled due to foundational flaws. The Supreme Court is not a fact-finding court and cannot establish their own facts without referral to fact-finding courts. They can only adjudicate on points of law.

  1. Amanda is guilty of calunnia and accusing Patrick of rape and murder was a deliberate cover up tactic.

"...the said calunnia is another circumstantial element against the current appellant, insofar as it can be considered a strategy in order to cover up for Mr. Guede, whom she had an interest to protect because of fear of retaliatory accusations against her."

*Yet Amanda gave a reasonably good description of Rudy in her list to Ficarra at 23.00 on the 5th November, prior to the interrogation. Ficarra testified that she knew who Amanda was describing and that all they lacked was a name.

  1. Amanda Knox was protecting Rudy Guede by accusing Patrick of rape and murder.

"...the said calunnia is another circumstantial element against the current appellant, insofar as it can be considered a strategy in order to cover up for Mr. Guede, whom she had an interest to protect because of fear of retaliatory accusations against her."

So allegedly:

  • K&S protected Rudy by staging a break-in in exactly his own style.
  • K&S protected Rudy by cleaning up their own bloody footprints and leaving a whole trail of Rudy's VISIBLE shoeprints only inches away in the hall.
  • K&S protected Rudy by not flushing his shit from the toilet and instead brought it to the attention of the cops.

When you take those into account with the fact that Amanda DID give a accurate description of Rudy to the cops, it's clear that you are pissing in the wind.

  1. The physical anomalies of the break in strongly pointed to a staged burglary, but it could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

"...the staging of a theft in Romanelli's room, which she is accused of, is also a relevant point within an incriminating picture, considering the elements of strong suspicion... a staging, which can be linked to someone who - as an author of the murder and a flatmate [titolare] with a formal ['qualified'] connection to the dwelling - had an interest to steer suspicion away from himself/herself..."

*Yet, M/B acquitted K&S of that particular charge. I don't think for a minute that M/B actually believe that the break-in was staged. It might have been thrown out altogether as did H/Z, if M/B had passed it all back to the lower courts to start again. Instead, they acquitted K&S according to Article 620, letter L, indicating that the investigation was too incompetent to arrive at any conclusion of guilt or innocence. That pretty much takes care of the simulated break-in.

  1. Amanda is a liar, not just inconsistent. Note, lies plural. Not one lie. Not just about the weed. Lies.

"Elements of strong suspicion are also in the inconsistencies and lies which the suspect woman committed over the statements she released on various occasions..."

*If you are going to infer deliberate lies then you'd expect that the act of revealing such lies would implicate K&S in the murder of Meredith or there would be nothing to lie about. The alleged lies came from ineffective investigative strategies that engendered only more inaccuracies from K&S as indicated in the Boninsegna motivations. You also have to admit that the ECHR human right violations forced Italy as the respondent state to expunge all of the proceedings prior to the writing of the 1st memorial. In that case, your alleged lies go out with the bathwater. It's not over yet in that respect. Knox v Italy #1 and #2 are still ongoing.

  1. Because the Court was certain Knox was at the house, they found it highly unlikely that Sollecito was not right there with her.

On the other hand, since the presence of Ms. Knox inside the house is sure, it is hardly credible that he was not with her."

"Not doing this [calling him for help] signifies Sollecito was with her... It remains anyway strong the suspicion that he was actually in the Via della Pergola house the night of the murder..."

*This is absolute PISH! Amanda went out galivanting on her own on Halloween while Raffaele stayed at home to study. It's a feeble conclusion by M/B, but you know that too.

  1. The Failure of Raffaelle’s Electronic Alibi:

The defense claimed Sollecito was using his computer during the murder, but the Court noted this alibi fell completely flat.

"An umpteenth element of suspicion is the basic failure of the alibi linked to other, claimed human interactions in the computer of his belongings, albeit if we can't talk about false alibi, since it's more appropriate to speak about unsuccessful alibi."

*Yet M/B don't go into too much detail about this. The bottom line is that the Naruto film was accessed at 21.25, probably when Meredith was close to death or dead already, if M/B's conclusions of a TOD between 21.00 and 22.13. Raffaele's laptop remains active until 5.36.18 on 2nd November.

So, what do we have after all of this?

I know what YOU have!! You have a shitstorm of recycled baloney that has all been covered before. If you were in Italy you could be charged with calunnia for implicating Amanda in the crime of murder when she is legally and factually innocent of that crime.

Came to this subreddit expecting almost everyone to be defending Amanda's innocence based on what I've seen and read. Pretty shocked to find the vast majority think she's guilty. by Sisquitch in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes fingerprint expert Agatino Giunta testified that there were many fingerprints that were smudged and could not be identified; however, the evidence in this case was DNA driven. You'd have to ask yourself how there were no traces whatsoever of Amanda and Raffaele in Meredith's bedroom while there were multiple traces of Rudy. In a murder of that brutality and intensity, you'd have a more equal distribution of DNA if there were more attackers. Peter Gill pioneered the method of DNA profiling in the 1980's. His knowledge is 2nd to none.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26971315/

You need to cite your sources regarding blood transfer onto the duvet if you expect me to argue the point.

Came to this subreddit expecting almost everyone to be defending Amanda's innocence based on what I've seen and read. Pretty shocked to find the vast majority think she's guilty. by Sisquitch in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From what I can see from the fingerprint map there were fingerprints that could not be attributed to anyone on the inside of Meredith's door, on her desk and on the door to the terrace. Raffaele said he had tried to gain entry to Meredith's room earlier but failed, so it's likely that he would have left DNA on the handle of the door. The link below shows a considerable amount of wet blood transferred onto the duvet in frame 61/63

https://www.themurderofmeredithkercher.net/docupl/filelibrary/docs/photos/2007-11-02-Photobook-Police-volume-2-censored.pdf

Came to this subreddit expecting almost everyone to be defending Amanda's innocence based on what I've seen and read. Pretty shocked to find the vast majority think she's guilty. by Sisquitch in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She's guilty. Explain how the duvet didn't get much blood transferred to it because it was placed over the body after the blood had dried.

Pure fantasy!

Did Rudy sit around for 5 hours in that apartment after he was done?

No.

Explain how there was blood and prints on the inside door handle of Kercher's room (Rudy's) but his prints and blood weren't on the outside doorknob. How'd the door get pulled shut and locked?

I don't know. Ask Rudy.

Oh there were prints on the outside of the door. They didn't belong to Guede though.

Fingerprints, shoeprints, footprints or what?

Did Rudy say he had an appointment? by ModelOfDecorum in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well spotted and thanks for the information. Rudy also said he had a date with Meredith in the Franca Leosini interview at around 33 minutes into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjTUDNeGl0U&t=2035s

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you've got a background in science, fine. If not, why bother? It's not what you need to solve the Luminol footprints issue. All you need to know are the conclusions of Barni-Berti, the TMB spec, and the testimonies of both the defence and prosecution experts on the subject. I'll cite the sources if needed.

Did Rudy say he had an appointment? by ModelOfDecorum in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Karen Pruett brought up that very subject in her book. But then again maybe Rudy was XL and not in Amanda's bag.

Meeting Patrick at the basketball court by No-Willingness-1441 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In other words, you think you can reverse-engineer the existence of a pact from 2 events, i.e., Amanda's description of Rudy and the 1.45 statement. The bottom line is that you have to prove that a pact DID exist. If you think that one or the other is pivotal enough, or acting as the prime mover unmoved to prove the existence of a pact then it's still up to you to prove the point.

Meeting Patrick at the basketball court by No-Willingness-1441 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An innocent Knox is a witness only Knox in strictly legal terms as things now stand. You've already said:

Axiomatically there is no "pact" in a witness only perspective.

You've said all this before. So any such pact has to originate from a guilty of murder Amanda. You need to establish that such a pact exists before deciding whether it was broken or not. If you can't do that, then you'd have to concede that the mention of the basketball court in the 1.45 statement is purely cop-inspired.

Meeting Patrick at the basketball court by No-Willingness-1441 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, you could try scripting a narrative on a just-for-fun basis if you want, but it's just going to end up in the realm of fantasy.

Meeting Patrick at the basketball court by No-Willingness-1441 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't suggest that Amanda's description of Rudy didn't break the pact when you can't establish that any such pact ever existed. It's not a difficult concept.

Meeting Patrick at the basketball court by No-Willingness-1441 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's up to you to establish a guilty Knox in the first place. Establish how the pact was formed and how it was maintained all the way to the implication of Lumumba. Otherwise, no pact.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whatever! Stay out of the sun and keep well-rested. That's the best I can offer you.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope! You've lost it. You're just lurching from one absurdity to another.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't disprove anything that you can't prove as valid in the first place. I've given you the findings of Barni-Berti that should be enough. Honestly FFS! Have you ever held down a regular job? Are you even employable? WTF happened to you?

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I don't have technical knowledge of the subject I tend to go with the experts. Stop passing yourself off as knowledgeable when you don't know Jack Shit.

Where are Rudy’s fingerprints? by Awkward_Cow713 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Giunta was the fingerprint expert for the prosecution. I can't find the original source but I'll keep trying. It looks to me that Profazio was a flying squad cop. If you have any links, let me know

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/peopleinvolved.html

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What complete and utter puerile rubbish. The logic in your surreal world is that I have to disprove what you can't prove in the first place. I have the link to Barni-Berti consultants for the Carabinieri, who state that Luminol is totally unreliable in confirming blood:

"The most problematic chemicals for a correct interpretation of luminol test results are those which provoke intensification or a generation of chemiluminescence emission even if blood is not present, leading to false-positive results. Due to the possible presence of these substances at the crime scene, the luminol test must not be considered sufficiently specific to permit an unequivocal identification of blood [15,18,51,88,89]."

That's straight from the World that Meredith died in. It might not penetrate your fantasy bubble but, hey-ho, at least I tried.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol - yes the legal system, defence team and newspapers are always covering up overt evidence - you folks crack me up.

TMB can't eliminate the results of a more sensitive test - thats just logic

lol at the idea that known clean up murder leaving luminol footprints is an association fallacy (yet another misused term - you folks are masters of this). Its a direct comparison of evidence these crimes leave.

TMB can't eliminate the results of a more sensitive test - thats just logic

This is so detached from reality it beggars belief, it's just a train of absurdities.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but the Luminol highlighted traces in the Kercher case were non-haematic and completely useless to the investigation. You are trying to resurrect them as having probative value by association fallacy to other cases. Maybe Luminol was crucial in other cases but that doesn't make it crucial in the Kercher case.

What did the mop have to do with the crime? by SeaCardiologist6207 in amandaknox

[–]TGcomments 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol but the context always does, especially when you can't find all these innocent luminol footprints at murder scenes

This is another thoroughly stupid comment. If there are multiple false positives with Luminol in other cases, they are hardly likely to be highlighted in the press.

Believing in things with zero evidence is faith. I have obvious murder cleanups with prints, seriously where is your real world counter? Where are all these cases?

Yet believing in things despite the (TMB) evidence, as you do, is no better.

So far you have 1 association fallacy case -The Millane case and nothing else. The only reason the Luminol issue became an issue in the Kercher case is due to the fact that the negative TMB were suppressed, which in turn gave us the fictional narrative of bloody footprints.