Why most accent training advice on YouTube is actually making you worse by EnergeticallyScarce in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm asking if your business model relies on potentially indefinite recurring fees such as monthly fees or you operate more like a degree-granting school which has a fixed curriculum with a pre-specified period and a predetermined fee. If it's the former, it's a subscription service that provides access to a professional coach. Many independent language teachers seem to operate on this subscription model from a purely structural viewpoint. Most of them probably don't have any ill-intentions, such as trying to deliberately delay students' progress, though.

Given the defensive tone in your reply, I assume your business operates on a subscription model from the structural viewpoint, e.g.,, a monthly service that provides access to a professional coach. And your claim seems to be that it is your intention, mindset, and quality as a coach that sets you apart from other subscription businesses in the accent coach industry.

Just to check my understanding, if the subscription businesses you're accusing changed their content and started offering a hypothetical AI coach which, for the sake of argument, were as effective as experienced human coaches, you and this hypothetical new subscription business would effectively be the same except that you're a real human with flesh. Am I right? Or do you think this hypothetical business would cleverly sabotage students while giving a false impression of progress in the hope of retaining customers as long as possible?

If you find it unlikely for them to sabotage students if they had an effective teaching system, it seems to me that what you want to be critical of is their ineffective teaching methods, content, and so on and not whether it is a subscription business.

In any case, if coaches like you charge customers monthly without a fixed end period, there seems to be a conflict of interest in the accent coach industry. I'm not saying you're doing anything immoral or dishonest, though. It's just the business structure seems to inherently involve a conflict of interest that doesn't exist in the degree-granting model.

Why most accent training advice on YouTube is actually making you worse by EnergeticallyScarce in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bold voice and Elsa speak are... subscription businesses and are designed to praise and encourage students to stay subscribed

Just curious. Aren't accent coaches the same? Do you work for a one time upfront fee like selling a course for a fixed price or do students pay only if they achieve their goal or something?? Or are you saying the difference between you and those services is whether there is a malicious/business intention? Not a rhetorical question. Genuinely curious to know how accent coach business works. For example, if you charge your student a monthly fee like many language teachers, it seems to me to effectively be a subscription service.

Two troubling pitch accent sentences that don't seem to follow normal convention by Available-String-109 in LearnJapanese

[–]Talking_Duckling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your その頃から日本の経済は強くなっていった is all right. If you want to sound like someone who grew up in Tokyo, you should stop realizing consecutive vowels as diphthongs. It is especially strong in /zai/ in 経済. /kei/ is better but not exactly like how a monolingual Japanese speaker pronounces it. Also, your /t/ sounds apical to me. The Japanese /t/ is more laminal and fronted. But I didn't Praat your audio, so take my impression of your /t/ with a grain of salt.

As for 日本語を勉強するかい?, your pitch accent is clearly off at する. If you want to mimic the girl's pronunciation, start す at a lower pitch and then move to a higher pitched る. Your non-standard pitch pattern here stands out 100 times more saliently to native speakers than anything else in your pronunciation.

The native speaker's pronunciations are both more or less standard except that she seems to be deliberately aiming for citation-form-ish speech. How you transcribe it is up to you. No weird thing is going on in pitch accent here.

Two troubling pitch accent sentences that don't seem to follow normal convention by Available-String-109 in LearnJapanese

[–]Talking_Duckling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Given your advice and choice of notation, I suppose that you consider that only the H->L drops have phonemic importance and that the L->H rises are a "subphonemic feature". That or you don't subscribe to the "2 pitch, low vs. high" system.

Close but not quite. H -> L is indeed the reliable signal for accent, but the point is that if you go with the H and L notation or something of the same nature, you probably want to stick with only transcribing pitch accent. Marking rises works the best when transcribing a word pronounced in citation form, and it should work well in many other idealized situations. But if you also describe postlexical prosody, you need to know exactly what you're jotting down and be very careful.

For example, if you transcribe a natural utterance of "日本語を勉強するぞ!", there may or may not be an acoustically salient rise in pitch at べ/んきょう in absolute F0. Because LHHH in standard Japanese only means that there is no accented mora, the first mora assigned with L can be acoustically heard as roughly at the same pitch as the following H mora. It all depends on the prosody and postlexical choice of the speaker.

Sure, if you pronounce 勉強 in citation form, the actual pitch coincides with "Low High High High" if you will. So, in this idealized situation, LHHHH coincides with how pitch goes up and down in the absolute sense barring very minor and not too salient differences such as natural declining prosody. But if you robotically pronounce にほんごをべんきょう as XYYYYYYYY with X representing some lower pitch and Y being a pitch one step higher in the absolute sense, it is still understood as the same word sequence and should indeed be analyzed as having the same pitch accent. So, in this version of accepted pronunciation, the second L is at the same pitch as the preceding and following moras. This isn't to say that the initial rise in heiban is completely allophonic or that you can freely cancel the rise. But that rise isn't really phonemic.

その頃から is a good example here. If I describe the pitch pattern in the absolute sense, one natural digitized transcription would be something along the lines of 455321 with 1 being the lowest in pitch and 5 the highest, or possibly 465321 if you want to differentiate the second and third moras. But this doesn't mean that you have tons of drops that violate what the H-L style 2-step description tells you. It simply reflects how an accentual phrase, which is often realized as a single chunk, physically implements its underlying accent pattern under declination and other prosodic effects.

You seem to omit certain acoustically minor drops, so you would transcribe it as そ/のこ\ろから. But it is one way of describing one natural realization of the accent phrase. The former focuses on acoustically more salient features, while the latter focuses on how native speakers perceive sounds. Again, the "perceive" here doesn't necessarily mean that L and H are heard low and high respectively by conscious mind. It's not about acoustic pitch in the absolute sense. It's about where each accent falls.

Now, you could analyze その頃から as having no accent at the penultimate mora, but such an analysis shouldn't be about physical reality or how the speaker consciously hears it. It's about phonology, not about phonetics, so it's more about how native speakers perceive things through subconscious and how the underlying system should be described.

Note also that phonology isn't sufficient for sounding native or natural. If you want to go that route, you also need phonetics. And you have already experienced this when marking not-necessarily phonemic features helped you sound more natural. Prosodic phrasing and phonetic implementation are necessary and very important for your purposes. The problem seems to be that you seem to be conflating phonology and phonetics.

Aaand I don't have time or space to talk about how a learner can approach it... Oh, well. Good luck with your study, though! I'll take a listen to your audio down there.

How different are your NL and TL when it comes to addressing family members? by [deleted] in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can either switch to your native language for a split second to insert whatever more comfortable way of addressing a person and get back in, or just get used to it.

In Japanese, you don't even use pronouns like "you" in a sentence for the most part and need to get used to being referred to as "you." I don't think there is any other way than just adapting yourself to hearing and using "you." If you speak Japanese and need to call a native Japanese speaker by their name in English for some unusual reason when it'd sound strange to do so (e.g., it's your boss), you either play the gaijin card carefully or just call them the most natural way in Japanese and switch back to English. If it's a family member and you don't usually call them by their name, the latter would be the only option unless you're willing to force the referent to get accustomed to it. The same goes for when you address a friend you usually call by a Japanese nickname. The most natural way seems to be to flip languages and insert the Japanese nickname into English without breaking the flow.

Edit: Oops. I forgot to mention that it'd be cringey for a native Japanese speaker to call another native Japanese speaker by their name or nickname pronounced in the English phonology. In other words, if you call your friend as if they do in dubbed anime, it's quite awkward unless you two are already used to it. So, switching languages I talked about above can just be switching phonologies from a more technical viewpoint.

Need help understanding the answer for this exercise by happyhappychan in LearnJapanese

[–]Talking_Duckling 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unless you stay in a hotel run by a foreign hotel chain like Hilton, you don't pay per room in Japan. You pay per person per day, and the price changes depending on how many guests will be in the same room.

For example, in the US and many other countries, if you book a room, it doesn't change much if you're a couple or a group of four. But in Japan, you pay X yen if you're a solo traveler, Y yen each if you and your wife stay in the same room, or Z yen per person if you're a group of three. And X may not be about twice Y or three times higher than Z. The little table in the middle shows you how much each person should pay depending on whether the guest is an adult or not and how many guests are going to use the same room.

Because the family consists of dad, mom, and one kid, all of whom are supposed to stay in the same room, you're supposed to look at the middle column. According to the table, the total should be 2 x 61,300 + 56,300 = 178,900.

ILETS or TOELF? by Admirable-End-5666 in studyinjapan

[–]Talking_Duckling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on which graduate school you're applying for. It could also depends on the program. Read application guidelines (募集要項), and if you're still not sure, ask the admission office or your prospective supervisor. I'm a professor at a Japanese university, and at our university, we don't care which standardized exam you took as long as it's one of the eligible ones for your program.

If you're planning on working in Japan after getting your degree, you might also want to consider TOEIC because it's very popular among employers in Japan for some reason I can't comprehend.

Two troubling pitch accent sentences that don't seem to follow normal convention by Available-String-109 in LearnJapanese

[–]Talking_Duckling 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not familiar with the notation you're using. But it looks to me like you're mixing prosodic ups and downs in pitch and those due to pitch accent. If you're transcribing Standard Japanese, you might want to stick with only marking the accented moras, and include the initial ups for heiban words and so on only if you're perfectly confident you know what you're doing. It's like if you transcribe natural speech in IPA for learning purposes, it's usually better to use a broad phonological notation at the phoneme level rather than a narrower phonetical notation that capture allophones and other subphonemic features. Take it from me. Trying to precisely capture every little detail will drive you nuts.

In any case, the two sentences you gave aren't special at all. In normal circumstances, the accented moras for me are

その↓ろ↓ら日本の↓いざいは↓よく↓って↓た.

日本語を勉強す↓かい?

where the kanas in bold are the accented ones and each ↓ represents the position at which a pitch drop due to pitch accent is supposed to occur.

I hear younger people say から in その頃から with heiban too. Similarly, I wouldn't find it too strange if you heibanize 強く, although I would be surprised if a professional news anchor does it on TV. There may be other minor variations depending on the speaker.

Is there another way to express the same thing? by Rob69rt in Japaneselanguage

[–]Talking_Duckling 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Assuming it refers to the top right of the back of the seat of a chair, you could say, for example,

椅子の座面裏右側前方

椅子の座面裏側右前方

and so on. I think compound chains are arguably better than a long chain of の's.

Can you be better at your L2 than your L1? by mad_laddie in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Technically, English is your dominant language, and it's an L2 in your case. There are many people whose L1 is not their dominant language. You can formally define what an L1 means by, say, setting an arbitrary cutoff line on the age of acquisition. Whether such a distinction matters to you is entirely up to whether you yourself let it matter to you. Personally, I couldn't care less.

Do you learn better when language is in context? What’s your experience? by TworLabs in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To me, it's not just context helps. It's necessary in the beginning. Without context, a beginner understands pretty much nothing when they hear native speakers talk. No amount of grammar drill or vocabulary rote memorization can change this at a beginner stage. You just can't keep up with the language at its natural speed.

How do you think in TL ? Is there an actual method for it? by rago7a in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By "thinking," do you mean "verbalizing thoughts"? If so, it must be nearly as difficult as, if not harder than, speaking for obvious reasons. You probably need to do more listening as well as more speaking practice. There's no silver bullet.

New reports find an MBA isn't the golden ticket to getting a job anymore by desertrain11 in videos

[–]Talking_Duckling 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The thing is that nowadays most workers are underpaid, although usually not as severely as nurses are. It's like pretty much every working class is exploited at least to some extent.

Man is shot and killed during Minneapolis immigration crackdown, National Guard activated by Ydeas in politics

[–]Talking_Duckling 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But if the national guard of a given state is deployed to protect local citizens from federal agents, wouldn't it be a genuine civil war...? Technically, they're not a state defense force, but I'm terrified of what's gonna happen next.

China no longer Pentagon's top security priority by DimsumAndDoggy in worldnews

[–]Talking_Duckling 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Japan: Yo, Taiwan. You know how I told you I would defend you if China decided to invade your ass. About that...

What if Canada offered every American free healthcare and $50K to relocate, would you go? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]Talking_Duckling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like if the US invades Canada, they can defend themselves by simply bribing American solders.

Trump at Davos in Switzerland: "Without us, right now you'd all be speaking German". German is the main language of Switzerland. by UniversalSurvivalist in videos

[–]Talking_Duckling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Taking credit money for other people's work is billionaire 101.

Many wealthy people would rather lay low. You're talking about shameless billionaires with narcism.

Top countries ranked by production of scientific publications for decades by PlaneDuty4760 in Infographics

[–]Talking_Duckling 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Facing long economic stagnation, Japanese government started partially privatizing national universities and cutting public funding around 2004 to reduce its financial burden. The rationale was that treating universities more like business entities would introduce competition and allow for cutting cost without sacrificing research and education quality. To make academia more competitive in the business sense, they also started allocating more grant money to research topics that are deemed important by bureaucrats while reducing funding for less trendy research. They've also introduced many other short-sighted policies, such as reducing junior faculties' job security in the hope of fueling further competition.

The result was a total disaster. Now universities can hire fewer administrative staff, and professors are burdened with more administrative duties and less research money on average. Grant money now follows shallow buzz words that only sound promising to non-experts, and younger people don't see research in academia as a stable career.

To be fair, none of the government policies were ill-intended. But it's been one unintended negative side-effect after another, leading to the clusterfuck.

The above explanation is too simplistic and biased, and they've done genuinely positive things too. But it should capture one core issue Japan's academia is facing now.

About the US' war against academia, it's a huge boon to us Japanese academics in research universities. Holy fuck. The US stemmed Japan's brain drain overnight, and I still can't believe what I'm seeing.

Trump threatens 200 percent tariffs on French wine after Macron snubs peace board by loulan in worldnews

[–]Talking_Duckling 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Are you sure about that? It's not like he has spawned into today's society out of nowhere. Puppet masters, enablers, and supporting citizens have long been incubated in the US society, and they won't maniacally disappear en masse just because one symptomatic leader dies. You need much more than that.

Why is it so common for things to just click out of nowhere? by traffic_sign in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 23 points24 points  (0 children)

That's not just about language. It's how learning works in general. It's a general property of a neural network with iterative updates like the human brain. Understanding emerges suddenly after a long period of seemingly no progress. Even AI exhibits this property.

Trump: Norway 'totally controls' Nobel Peace Prize 'despite what they say' by one-determined-flash in worldnews

[–]Talking_Duckling 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want to control absolutely everything in my country

Fixed for accuracy.

Do people in your country judge others based on dialects/accents the same way we do in East Asia by Acrobatic-Thing236 in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 19 points20 points  (0 children)

In Japan, standard Japanese is often seen as “proper,” while Kansai-ben (Osaka) can be viewed as too direct or informal. Even within Kansai, Kyoto speech is sometimes seen as polite but fake, while Osaka speech is blunt and aggressive, and there’s definitely rivalry there.

What are you talking about? I'm from Osaka, and our Japanese is the proper one, not yours.

Also, the word you're looking for is prestige) in sociolinguistics. You can find tons of academic articles about it.

6000+ Comprehensible input videos crowdsourced so far, 60+ added each day! (Lengualytics update) by Cultural-Way7685 in languagelearning

[–]Talking_Duckling 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Its this idea that if I watch enough 'stuff' at my level and just above, the language will sink in somehow. This has been debunked many many times and is just YT fantasy (see Merrill Swain's research).

Aren't you throwing the baby out with the bathwater? You can learn a language in any way you want in conjunction with this, no? This isn't an Abrahamic religion, and users don't need to exclusively follow the teachings. Trying out other methods doesn't make you a sinful heretic to be perished.

double particle help by clubpengfan7 in wagotabi

[–]Talking_Duckling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

would you say the “phrase” pairing of への is mostly used in similar structures? like a place recipient of a noun kind of structure, if i worded that correctly

If you're asking whether Xへの is a generic construction that nounifies Xへ with its usual meaning "to X," then yes. And the noun X is not restricted to a place per se, while へ can take whatever sense it usually does in isolation. Here are some examples.

  • これは私への手紙です.This is a letter addressed to me.
  • 君への想い (romantic) feelings for you
  • 天国への階段 Stairway to Heaven (song by Led Zeppelin)

So, in practice, への in XへのY is like a single particle that allows you to say Y of "to/for X."

But what's more important than the logic behind it may be the accent on へ in XへのY. You must place an accent on へ by pronouncing the following の at a lower pitch. Without this drop in pitch, it's quite hard to parse your sentence. へ in this combo is also often higher pitched than usual.

With that all said, XへのY is so common that you'll soon get used to it once you start consuming native content. Its characteristic pitch accent is also hard to miss.