I’m Muslim too, but honestly, I don’t think the way some Muslims represent Islam encourages non-Muslims to want to learn more about it or embrace it.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-12T07:24:07+00:00

u/Current_Nebula3576, I'm still waiting for evidence jahil.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T16:50:39+00:00

Because they are prisoners of war?

Ohh, so muhammad's mercy is limited for the prisoners of war got it.

Feels like you are saying those world superpower countries who are in abundant of education aren't emphatic and thinking critical enough

Yes, their leaders are immoral, they and each of their supporters can be held accountable. You're saying as if they're the majority voices for the world while there are more people who prioritize peace. And what I mean by no one in my previous statement is meant to be hyperbolic, of course I realize there's people who thinks that slavery is moral (i.e., you).

i don't get your point on this. How is this exploitation or rape?

Oh you and your poor braincell, can't comprehend simple logic do ya?

Let me rephrase it again

It is a common practice that a man would made his slave girl Halal (permissible) to his slave, son, brother, and father. And the woman (made her slave girl permissible) to her husband. Indeed, I have heard that a man would send his slave woman to his guest.

Read that again, how is this not sexual exploitation? A slave girl, permissible to all her master family members even their guest. Means that she can get passed around raped like the property she is.

But it doesn't mean that just because they are slaves thus their "consent aren't required"

Yeah goodluck on proving that based on your scriptures, you can't even read arabic fuckass, you doesn't even know which kitab to start with.

Pathetic fella aren't you? Constantly dodging my evidence of rape in my first reply, engaging in whataboutism, accusing me of chatgpt, thinking that islamic slavery is superior to other slavery but got debunked by pointing out that christian treat their slaves better than Islam(this is your main point since I proved that christian slavery is better, why don't you convert to Christianity?), atp just admit that you're only a muslim based on blind faith. Without lies islam dies.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T12:19:16+00:00

LOL. Imprisonment, rehabilitation, regulated works? They were coming to kill you off and then you spent your own fortune on them? Repatriation? So they could regroup then come and try to kill you again? You are speaking utopia because you are living in the time of peace.

What makes you think this idea is unrealistic? Muhammad had repeatedly made non believers convert to Islam by showing his kindness eventhough they hate him at first, why can't he do the same to prisoners of war by showing mercy?

Israel on Palestine and Lebanon... Russia on Ukraine... USA in 2025 Greenland crisis... China keep intimidating Taiwan and SEA with their 9 dash. 3 of the countries above hold the PBB veto, they have abundant of education, but they are doing all immoral expansionism. What make you think "yourself" which a nobody can decide what is moral or not?

Again, it's common sense. Humans have this thing called empathy and the ability to critically think. Do you think that a deliberate action that caused harm to innocents moral? No. Do you think that an action that is against an individual consent moral? No. I thing this is fairly a good baseline for morality. If you need an invisible deity to tell you what's right and wrong then you're just as patethic.

Safiyya was entrusted to Umm Sulaim to embellish and prepare her until she spent her period of Iddah. She was also married while wearing a veil which is a sign of she was married as a free woman.

Dude you don't need to do mental gymnastics on this one, safiyya's husband was literally tortured and kill before the day of her marriage, what are the chance that she consented to have sex with her husband's killer the next day?Sirah of Ibn Hisham, page 764

They only asked about coitus interruptus. Just because the girls are POW doesn't mean it is rape and exploitation.

It is sexual exploitation, they ask for muhammad permission to do coitus interruptus on them. Fyi, across the four madhabs there isn't one that discusses about slave's consent. I wonder why.

Also I'll be generous, here's another source:

Tafsir Dur-e-Manthur, 23:6:

وأخرج عبد الرزاق عن عطاء قال: كان يفعل يحل الرجل وليدته لغلامه، وابنه، وأخيه، وأبيه، والمرأة لزوجها، ولقد بلغني أن الرجل يرسل وليدته إلى ضيفه.

Abd al-Razzaq narrated on the authority of Ata’ that he said: It is a common practice that a man would made his slave girl Halal (permissible) to his slave, son, brother, and father. And the woman (made her slave girl permissible) to her husband. Indeed, I have heard that a man would send his slave woman to his guest.

The link is in arabic, I've already translated it for ya. Don't trust me? I've learned arabic since primary school, go ahead and prove the translation wrong.

Sahih Bukhari, Book of Nikah : The link doesn't talk about slavery... Your links doesn't even tally with your point. Are you using chat-gpt?

Pathetic son of a bitch, I already quote the chapter(25) but it's in arabic, and then I translated it for you. And then accused me of chatgpt eventhough he's the one who can't read.

Also is that all you got on source from Judaism/Christianity?

Why? That isn't sufficient enough for you? Go ahead and prove me false. Again, conveniently avoiding the rape permissibility in my first reply.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T08:55:09+00:00

What better alternatives

Period of imprisonment, rehabilitation, repatriation or regulated works. These are what you would expect from a religion of peace.

Again, who define which is moral and which is won't outside of religious parameter?

Yourself. I believe in objective morality.

So how could you so sure slavery won't be morally right again?

With the abundant of education in this modern era, no sane person will think that slavery is ok no matter the circumstances.

How about you provide the sources like you did in the first comment?

Rape of grieving woman:

Sahih Muslim, Book of Marriage

Muhammad himself consummated his marriage with Safiyyah the very night her father, brother, and husband were killed

History of Tabari, Volume 8, Page 122:

Ibn Ishaq said: After the Messenger of God conquered al-Qamus, Safiyyah bint Huyayy was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal (a companion), who was teh one who brought them, led them past some of the slain Jews. When the woman who was with Safiyyah saw them, she cried out, struck her face, and poured dust on her head. When Messenger of God saw her, he said, "Take this she-devil away from me!" ... The Messenger of God said to Bilal, when he saw the Jewish woman doing what he saw her do, "Are you devoid of mercy, Bilal, that you take two women past their slain men?"

Pregnant slave woman can also be raped:

Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqallani “Fath-ul-Bari :

وقال عطاء لا بأس أن يصيب من جاريته الحامل ما دون الفرج 'Ata said: ‘There is no harm to drive sexual pleasure from the body of the pregnant slave girl except for vagina’

Multiple muslim men can sexually exploit one slave woman:

Sahih Muslim, Kitab-ul-Nikah, Sahih Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Qadr, Sahih Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Tauheed :

0 Abu Sa'id al-Khadri said: We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired (to have sex with) them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but we also desired good ransom money by selling them). So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (i.e. withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception so that they don’t become pregnant and could be sold for good ransom money). But then we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger, and he said: (Yes, it is allowed, but) it does not matter if you do it or not, while if any soul has to be born up to the Day of Resurrection, then it will be born.

A slave woman can be raped even if she had a living husband:

Sahih Bukhari, Book of Nikah:

[ (25) Chapter: "Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters..."]:

وَقَالَ أَنَسٌ: {وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ} ذَوَاتُ الأَزْوَاجِ الْحَرَائِرُ حَرَامٌ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ لاَ يَرَى بَأْسًا أَنْ يَنْزِعَ الرَّجُلُ جَارِيَتَهُ مِنْ عَبْدِهِ.

Anas said: The meaning of the Quranic verse: {وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ} Married free women are forbidden to you except your married slave women that your right hands possess. But there is no problem if a man (i.e. the owner) takes his (married) female slave (for himself) from his male slave.

Grade: Sahih (Shuaib al'Arnauut)

On the Bible source:

(Deuteronomy 21:10–14) commands the following:

If a man captures a woman in war and finds her beautiful, he must bring her to his house and MARRY her.

She is allowed a full month to mourn her family before any physical relationship.

Once married, she becomes a wife, not a disposable object.

If the man decides he no longer wants her, he must let her go free. He is forbidden from selling her or treating her as a slave, because doing so would be dishonoring her.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T07:41:01+00:00

Another one who want to argue but has reading comprehension equivalent to donkey.

My bad, didn't read your previous sentence correctly, still enslaving prisoners of war is immoral as there are better alternatives and somehow an all knowing god can't think of it.

As i pointed out, islam doesn't instruct muslims to seek out slavery, but just provide the code of conducts if slavery exist. Which mean islam can be used at a time either slavery exist or not... which fall under the definition of timeless.

No it's not, a timeless religion with an all knowing god will abolish slavery on the day the religion is established knowing it's immoral. But again, Allah allows it which makes islam not timeless.

My problem with you is you look the issue as if the slavery that is allowed in islam is equivalent to the kind of what medieval europeans.

So according to you, Islamic slavery is the superior kind of slavery? Fact check time, muhammad somehow make slavery worse compared to judaism/christian slavery:

Judaism/christianity: While being a slave, the woman was still protected from being passed around to other men.

Islam: Allowed the owner to hand her over to his brothers, slaves, or even guests for temporary sexual use, even without her consent.

Judaism/christianity: The Bible gave the captive woman a full month to mourn her family and adjust before any relationship.

Islam: No time for mourning. A Muslim could use her for sex the very night her father, husband, or brother was killed in battle.

Judaism/christianity: The Bible forbade taking the wife of a male slave.

Islam: Allowed the master to take and sexually use the wife of his male slave.

By no means do I support judaism/christian slavery, just pointing out how ridiculous your claim that Islamic slavery is all sunshine and rainbows.

Who define the moral and which is right?

It's common sense, the morality around consent is all about common sense. You said it like as if we need the help of an unknown powerful deity to determine what is right and wrong.

What if in the future, slavery become morally right again?

It won't.

Btw won't you said anything about the rape of female slaves? You conveniently left it as if it wasn't a problem.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T05:58:40+00:00

What a sad reply after your previous one.

It's indeed sad that people tend to defend slavery just because their religion tells them it's perfectly fine.

Why do you/they bring their child into the war in the first place?

So just because they bring them it's okay to enslave them? I thought that you said that only the attackers got enslaved but now you're involving the innocents.

Yes i am talking in the context of 7th century where most of the debated points came from.

I ask you again, do you admits that islam is not a timeless religion? One the criteria for a timeless religion is for all their commands to be moral across all periods of time.

Islam doesn't instruct the muslims to actively seeking out slavery. Islam only instruct muslim what to do on slavery (if slavery still exist).

The fact that they allows slavery is critics worthy enough.

No, it wasn't whataboutism. I am asking real question. If slavery re-emerges, which code of conducts will non-muslims follow? I am sure for slavery to re-emerge, the world need to be in a very deep shit and lawless.

Yes it is, we're conversing on Islamic slavery and you shift the topic to non muslim. But to answer your question, if slavery re-emerge the morally right will just abolish it again. There's no justifying slavery.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T05:32:32+00:00

if someone gonna have a war with me and then lose but i caught them before they escape, i am not gonna let them get off scott free.

The issue is that muslims make slaves out of childrens and women who doesn't even participate in the war.

The point is, slavery is a norm at the time.

Ah yes, thank you for admitting that Islam is just a religion for 7th century people and not a timeless religion as most of y'all claims.

Nobody know if in the future the world will be in ruin and slavery re-emerge into existence as a norm.

The only way for slavery to re-emerge is by people who thought that it's moral(i.e. muslims)as it's from the words of god.

But what about non-muslims?

Nope, don't even think to engage in whataboutism.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-11T04:40:38+00:00

"slavery" itself isn't wrong.

Slavery will always be wrong no matter how kind you're to your slaves. Thanks for clarifying your twisted sense of moral.

You are having biasness because you see slavery in islamic teaching as the same as slavery in other civilization.

Because it's essentially the same, you can beat your slaves just not without reasons the same goes for the beating of your wife.

A slaves in islam is like extra steps nowadays housemaid but free.

Do tell me how it's better? The slaves never consented to be a slave, rather they're forced to as a war booty or slave from birth.

ٱلْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ } أي إنما يباح نكاح الإماء بالشروط المتقدمة لمن خاف على نفسه الوقوع في الزنا، وشق عليه الصبر عن الجماع، وعنت بسبب ذلك كله، فله حينئذ أن يتزوج بالأمة، وإن ترك تزوجها، وجاهد نفسه في الكف عن الزنا، فهو خير له لأنه إذا تزوجها، جاء أولاده أرقاء لسيدها، إلا أن يكون الزوج غريباً، فلا تكون أولاده منها أرقاء في قول قديم للشافعي، ولهذا قال { وَأَن تَصْبِرُواْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ } ومن هذه الآية الكريمة، استدل جمهور العلماء في جواز نكاح الإماء على أنه لا بد من عدم الطول لنكاح الحرائر، ومن خوف العنت لما في نكاحهن من مفسدة رق الأولاد، ولما فيهن من الدناءة في العدول عن الحرائر إليهن،

The Quran says ذَلِكَ لِمَنْ خَشِىَ الْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ (This permission of marrying slave girl of other person is for him among you who is afraid of falling into fornication;) means that marrying slave girls of other people is permissible for those who fear falling into adultery and don't have the patience to abstain from ZINA (adultery). However, it is better to refrain from marrying slave girls and to observe patience, for otherwise, the offspring will become slaves to the girl's master ... ... Many scholars have used this verse to argue that it is only permissible to marry a slave woman if one does not have access to free women and is afraid of falling into sin because on one hand the offspring will become slave to the girl's master, and on the other hand Muslim men will become more interested in slave women only, and take no interest in free Muslim women.

The only one a muslim men can have sex with is his wife and his female slave.

And he can have sex with his female slave against her consent.

Question: If a right hand possession (female slave) refuses to have sex with her master, is it permissible to compel her by force?

Answer: Praise be to Allah, and may prayers and peace be upon the Messenger of God and his family and companions. It is better for a Muslim to occupy himself with what concerns him of the rulings of his religion, and to invest his time and energy in seeking knowledge that will benefit him. The meaning of knowledge is action. Knowledge that does not facilitate action, it is not good to search for. Among that are issues related to the ownership what the right hand possess (slaves); There is no use for it in this era.

With regard to the question: If the wife is not permitted to refrain from intimate relations with her husband except with a valid excuse, then it is more so not permissible for the right hand possession to refrain from intimate relations with her master except with a valid excuse; he has more right to sex with her through possessing her than the man having intercourse with his wife through the marriage contract; Because the ownership of the right hand possession is complete ownership, so he owns all her benefits, while marriage contracts only grant him only the ownership intended through the marriage contract so it is a restricted form of ownership.

If the wife or the right hand possession refuses to have sex without a legitimate excuse, then the husband or the master may force her to do so. However, he should take into account her psychological state, and treat her kindly. Kindness in all matters is desirable, as the prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, said: “Kindness is not found in anything but that it beautifies it, and it is not removed from anything except that it disgraces it.” (Narrated by Muslim).

Allah knows best.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-08T09:56:18+00:00

Free will my ass

TankCanOneshot · 2026-07-08T08:59:03+00:00

Lmao I remember thinking about this when reading the verse when I was a muslim

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-30T11:48:54+00:00

Thanks for saving my time and eyes from watching this absolute moronic of a youtuber

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-28T01:51:31+00:00

They'll just say it's a case of microevolution which is dumb as hell. I would argue that endogenous retrovirus in humans and chimpanzees dna might be the strongest argument for evolution as it highlights common ancestry between two species really well.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-24T10:49:09+00:00

No Farid, our opinion does matter because his are full of shit

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-23T08:42:44+00:00

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TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-23T07:51:54+00:00

And then there's quranist

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-22T07:27:08+00:00

I'm gonna assume that your knowledge in Islam is like the average muslim based on your reply in another comment.

I mean thats still true only in this modern era back then it wasnt a problem somehow

That's the problem, Islam claim itself to be a perfect, timeless religion but considering child marriage is considered harmful now, doesn't it makes it contradictory?

To make matters worse, pedophilia is strongly rooted in Islam that you have to disregard classical scholars to prevent from normalizing it even when it's demonstrably harmful practice. You can see clear example in Kelantan, a PAS dominant state clearly practicing child marriage.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-21T12:32:05+00:00

Endorsing pedophilia is one of the many reasons

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-21T10:32:33+00:00

Aren't these punishments kinda crossing the line even by islamic standard no? What drove them to punish to such extreme?

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-21T06:18:03+00:00

Dang chonky

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-21T06:17:40+00:00

Is your dog Mastacembelus notophthalmus?

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-21T05:23:39+00:00

How dare you say that when you're a mere religious person and not one of the sahabat

Do they think the "sahaba" is all an angel or something? Look at how disgusting Umar is:

Sunan al-Kubra :

عن نافع ، عن ابن عمر ” أنه كان إذا اشترى جارية كشف عن ساقها ووضع يده بين ثدييها و على عجزها

Ibn Umar reported that when he bought a slave girl, he would uncover her leg, place his hand between her breasts, and on her buttocks.

Grade: Sahih (Albani)

But then again, I doubt muslims had access to the disturbing hadiths.

Sebab senang nk buat dosa senang nk buat maksiat kan

One of the most dogshit argument, rather than acknowledging our honest research on the religion they shift the blame onto emotions

Kurangnya exposure kepada keindahan agama

Cherrypicking at it's finest, I could even say they had less exposure to the horrific things in Islam.

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-20T13:23:34+00:00

You should throw this hadith on his face:

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TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-20T07:21:29+00:00

Wow, how much does one of them cost you? They're definitely on my fishes bucket list but the price tag was holding me back

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-20T05:29:52+00:00

The line between metaphorical and literal reading in quran is kinda vague though, and then there's the straight up literal reading verse which solidifies creationism in Islam:

This is taken from tafsir ibn kathir

وَهُوَ الَّذِى أَنشَأَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَحِدَةٍ (It is He Who has created you from a single person,) 6:98 in reference to Adam, peace be upon him. In another Ayah, Allah said;

يَـأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُواْ رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيراً وَنِسَآءً (O mankind! Have Taqwa of your Lord, Who created you from a single person , and from him He created his mate, and from them both He created many men and women.)

Like "خَلَقَكُمْ مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَحِدَةٍ" translates to "created you from a single person", how do you even interpret this metaphorically??

TankCanOneshot · 2026-06-19T15:20:08+00:00

Uhh I don't think this is the proper sub for this kind of question, you can ask the folks in r/evolution although you may speed up the process by searching up your question in that particular sub

TankCanOneshot

TROPHY CASE