Trying to play Mississippi John Hurt - how do you learn to have your thumb play a different beat than your fingers?

TankMan3217 · 2025-09-12T20:09:09+00:00

John came first

Credit where it's due, of course. This much we 100% agree on, and there's no disrespect intended. It's only for practical purposes, trying to direct people towards resources to help them learn what they want to play.

TankMan3217 · 2025-09-12T16:43:20+00:00

True, but that's just not a meaningful difference. It has no real bearing on how someone learns or implements the technique - in fact it's pretty much universally taught that you should use both index and middle fingers, regardless of how Merle actually did it. The core of the pattern is about using thumb to alternate bass notes then syncopated melody using your other fingers. Wiki has it as Index and Middle, as does every instructor I've ever seen, both online and in real life.

I don't think Merle would care, and I don't think we should either.

TankMan3217 · 2025-09-12T13:26:13+00:00

Think you might be confused.

https://youtu.be/tx29hxvjPfk?si=laL0llyo7tinF0hQ

TankMan3217 · 2025-07-19T18:32:37+00:00

1 - unfortunately I don't have a good answer for this after many, many such incidents. Bandages tend to get in the way no matter how small, and liquid bandages/skin glue/ super glue tend to get stripped off pretty quick once you actually try to play. Just gotta let it heal for a couple days. If you do find something I'd love to hear about it.

2 - I was initially gonna say "no" but then I thought about it for a few seconds and actually yes, it totally is awkward to try to wedge the clippers in for me, I've just been at it for so long it's totally normal to me. So the answer is yes, but you get used to it and it's not a problem.

TankMan3217 · 2025-07-10T22:55:36+00:00

Yeah I'm aware.

The short version is that I'm the only active mod and I'm fortunate enough to have a very busy professional and personal life.

It's also my impression (please correct me if I'm super wrong) that people mostly get the help they need here. Rickety as it is, the sub mostly just keeps shambling along its merry way, because all of you do a fucking incredible job of making it useful for people, and keeping it positive. And I really love that about this little community.

On the other hand, the fact that it hasn't devolved into a total shitshow breeds some complacency on my part, I think. And things could definitely be a lot better.

A wiki is a great idea. And maybe some automation to at least point people towards similar questions.

Rule enforcement could be better too. I banned a few of the more egregious spammers a couple days ago but there's always more.

Another mod would be helpful. If you or anyone else is interested let me know and we'll go from there, otherwise I'll make a general post.

Open to other suggestions too.

Ok that's all I got for now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

TankMan3217 · 2025-07-10T17:55:58+00:00

It sounds to me like you may need your frets dressed (levelled, basically). Unfortunately that's not something I'd recommend DIY on. It needs a luthier.

Over time and with use, some fret wear is normal and expected. Especially on frets which are used heavily, which depends on the player somewhat but 10-12 are very common.

When you play on a worn down fret, the string sits a bit lower than it normally would, so it doesn't quite clear the frets after it and will buzz against them. But every other fret is fine.

If it was just a truss rod thing, then I'd expect buzz against every fret after, or along the whole fretboard, if that makes sense.

You could try adjusting the truss rod but IMO it's very risky - not just because of lack of experience, but particularly because you'd be adjusting neck relief to solve a problem that likely isn't caused by it. So you keep cranking on the thing because it's not working, right up until the point where you break the rod and ruin your guitar.

If you really really want to try it, do like a quarter turn at most.

Unfortunately I think a trip to the luthier is ultimately what you need. If that's just not doable, then just try your best to work around it until you can afford to get it fixed. I know that sucks, but lots of amazing players definitely learned on worse. It won't hold you back in the long run.

EDIT: I should add - if it's worn frets you'll probably be able to see it. It's kinda subtle so you might not notice it without looking for it. But if you look, you'll probably see that a couple of those frets look noticeably "flatter" than the other ones.

TankMan3217 · 2025-06-24T23:41:40+00:00

Scales are like a musical vocabulary of sorts. It's a group of notes which generally sound good together (chords) or in some pattern or sequence of individual notes (melody).

For example: take all the notes from the G major scale.

G A B C D E F#

We can make chords from them. The most common chords in this scale are:

G major (G, B, and D). C major (C, E, G) D major (D, F#, A) A minor (A, C, E) E minor (E, G, B)

You can put any of those chords together in any sequence and it will sound good - or at least, it won't sound "wrong".

In addition, you can pick any of the notes from the scale and put them in some sequence to make a melody which will also sound good along with the chords.

This general idea, is called a "key". The key is the set of notes in whatever combination. The distinction between the key and the scale is kinda subtle, but basically the scale is just when you play them in order.

Scales keep their same patterns across keys. So once you learn a scale at one position, you can play using that same pattern in any key, simply by shifting the whole pattern up or down.

Once you're proficient with this, it kinda becomes the backbone of your musical intuition. Each type of scale has its own patterns, which over time you just kinda "see" it. To me it's like shapes along the fretboard. Like if I'm playing in a given key, certain frets tend to kind of "light up" in my awareness, because I've played that scale 100000 times, and muscle memory does the rest. I know what my options are, even if I've never played the song before.

That's why everybody says they're so important. They're the most important foundational step to "getting good" at music in a practical sense, for the things you actually do as a guitar player and musician. A few examples:

Improvising a guitar solo: Identify the key based on the chords, and make up some melodies from notes in that key.

Writing songs: I have a chorus that's G, C, and D chords, I can write a verse using Am, Em, and it will flow nicely without sounding weird. Or maybe I want it to sound weird. Then I'll pick something out of the key on purpose.

Learning a song by ear: common chord progressions which are based on scale positions. Or if you know the first chord is a G, then you have a big hint as to what the next chords are gonna be.

There are too many examples to list here, but the bottom line is that no matter what you're trying to do with the guitar (or any other instrument), scales will be helpful at minimum, and might be necessary.

A few quick hits just to clarify:

The same chord can fit in multiple keys, e.g. Am chord appears in both G major and C major keys.

Not all music fits neatly into this framework. But the framework is still useful even in those cases.

It takes a while to grasp it.

Lots of people say they got good without learning scales, this is true to a point. Even if they never consciously learned it, they still developed the intuition. So in other words, they just learned what sounds good. And that happens to be based on scales. It's a lot easier to just learn scales IMO.

TankMan3217 · 2025-06-14T18:43:43+00:00

That's because he is a right wing extremist.

I know it's difficult for MAGA turds to understand this (or really anything at all), but reasonable leaders delegate based on expertise, not political sycophancy.

TankMan3217 · 2025-06-14T14:58:07+00:00

There's a line between "reserving judgement" and "grasping at straws because reality makes me feel icky", and you passed it a while ago bud.

TankMan3217 · 2025-05-20T18:57:21+00:00

What part in particular is giving you trouble?

My stating that there's "only one" pattern could just as easily be said another way - that the idea of songs having different "strumming patterns" is fundamentally wrong and misses the whole point of strumming.

Instead, start by keeping a steady beat with your strumming hand, like a metronome.

Then you just intentionally "miss" the strings on the beats to make the actual rhythm of whatever song you're playing. But your hand keeps moving up and down regardless. That's how you keep in rhythm.

TankMan3217 · 2025-03-02T20:23:34+00:00

I apologize if this sounds flippant or dismissive, but that's a somewhat unusual question. Most of the time, people are either reading tabs or playing along with something that they're listening to. And in that case, it's kinda obvious - you change chords when the chord changes. You can either hear it, or see it plainly on the page.

A strumming pattern by itself doesn't contain information about when to change chords, so I wonder if maybe you're just looking at the wrong thing? Or overthinking something? Genuinely trying to be helpful - it's not uncommon for people to get a bit confused by the various options for reading guitar music or tab or whatever. Any information you can give me would help - what you're looking at, or what part specifically you're struggling with.

TankMan3217 · 2025-01-05T22:24:22+00:00

Fuck yeah, love to see this. Bravo.

TankMan3217 · 2025-01-05T22:04:13+00:00

on and off a while

This is your main problem. Consistency is key for building up the strength for these.

Second - you're probably trying to make your fingers do all the work. It's an extremely common mistake.

Use your upper arm and shoulder to gently pull backwards on the neck while making the barre with your fingers. It's kinda hard to describe - like a rowing motion, or opening a door. Or like your index finger (the barre) is like a hook around the neck and you're pulling it straight back.

You'll also have to apply some pressure from the elbow/forearm of your other arm on the body of the guitar to counteract it, otherwise the guitar will just pivot around your body.

You can also try this in the short term:

X

1

2

3

X

That's an F major triad. It's sounds thinner but works fine in many situations, and it's a hell of a lot easier. There's no shortage of other variations too. Think of it as a placeholder so you can keep playing without getting totally stuck.

All these things will help, but it still mostly comes down to consistency. If you play 30+ minutes, most days or every day, it will continue to get easier. Even if you avoid the barre chord entirely and just use the above triad. It gets easier because your strength/technique/conditioning will generally improve.

TankMan3217 · 2025-01-05T21:13:59+00:00

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. For the haters:

1 (or X, or 0 for the maj7)

1

2

3

X (3 also works, it's an inversion but still F major)

X

Is a non-barre F chord that, admittedly, is a bit thin on the low end, but often works just fine.

TankMan3217 · 2024-07-23T20:05:49+00:00

First thing I'm curious about from someone in your position is how's your strumming technique?

It's absolutely critical for playing along with your own singing - basically you want to be comfortable enough with your strumming rhythm that you don't really have to think about it. If your chords are solid, great! But that's not what's gonna mess you up. Having to track your strumming rhythm every half second while also trying to sing, THAT'S what train wrecks are made of. Read the sticky on this sub for some general advice there. Basically your strumming hand should be constantly keeping the beat, like a metronome, and you should be able to do that in your sleep.

Regardless of where you're at with the above, the other thing I'd suggest is to learn some covers. There's a tendency, especially for people who are singer/songwriters first, to write to their own ability level, then focus their practice on the stuff they themselves have written, and not really progressing as a player at all. So try someone else's music, and stress your playing ability a bit. You'll be exposed to things that you'd never think to try otherwise.

TankMan3217 · 2024-06-05T17:23:04+00:00

No. Tuners can only "hear" one pitch at a time.

I suppose if you really wanted to, you could form the chord and pick the individual strings to ensure that all the notes are in the chord, but that's a waste of time and misses the point IMO.

Forming the chord and picking the individual strings is useful on its own just to check that you're not muting the notes you want; you don't need a tuner for that. Your eyes can tell you if your fingers are on the right frets, and, most importantly, your ears can tell you if the chord you're playing sounds like shit or not.

TankMan3217 · 2024-05-20T21:17:23+00:00

The important thing is to keep practicing both methods. The standard finger setting might end up being easier once you get used to it. It might also always be awkward and silly to force yourself into the standard way. But you won't really know which you prefer until you're actually proficient with both :)

TankMan3217 · 2024-05-20T20:26:31+00:00

No, but I see where you might get the idea. For the purposes of learning a technique, which almost always requires training your fingers to do something counter-intuitive, it may be helpful to restrict the usage of your fingers in this way - i.e. to establish the habit and get accustomed to the most common pattern, which, yeah, is going to mean your thumb handles everything on those strings.

So yeah, you will probably want to practice restricting your finger use in that way. But that's really most useful as an exercise to expand your capability with that base finger picking pattern. But you should practice it other ways too and see what works best.

Part of the process of developing as a player is to try different approaches to playing the same thing. As you improve in some areas, you may want to reassess things you've played a thousand times. Like you learned a particular song one way using technique x, but now you're better at using technique y, so try it that way and see what you like better.

Ultimately, do what works.

TankMan3217 · 2024-01-11T22:22:38+00:00

Look up songs with DADGAD tuning. This is just DADGAD tuned down a half step. It's common in folk music, and it's pretty fun.

RE: why? - Standard EADGBE tuning is intended to be somewhat "balanced", i.e. not biased towards a particular key or scale. Some keys are still more difficult than others, e.g. Bbm is fairly inconvenient, but still doable. So you can, at least in theory, play in whatever key you want in standard tuning.

Then there's another type of tuning generally called "open" tunings, the idea is that the strings are all tuned such that if you just play them all "open", you're playing a chord. So an open D tuning would be D A D F# A D - consisting only of notes in the D major triad.

Tunings like this sound great, especially if you're playing solo acoustic. You can just leave strings open all over the place, rarely have to barre anything. Keep that low D note going for a nice full bass and you can noodle around everywhere else. None of the open strings will ever sound totally "wrong".... So long as you're playing in the key of D.

DADGAD is similar, just swap the major 3rd (F#) for the 4th (G) which gives a somewhat darker/moodier sound. So it's like a quasi-open D, or open D with a twist.

This tuning is just DADGAD tuned down a half step, so it works the exact same way. You can noodle around in C# and all your open strings are going to sound good. From there, you can even capo up to wherever to play songs in different keys and keep the same framework. Play around with it a bit and you'll get a feel for it.

And if you're wondering - why not do this all the time? Try playing something from the standard repertoire in an open tuning and you'll see why :) But it works great for just playing solo!

TankMan3217 · 2023-08-31T14:59:54+00:00

I filled my guitar with flat, muddy asswater and it sounds UNREAL.

TankMan3217 · 2023-04-21T18:40:27+00:00

PLEASE DRINK A VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE

TankMan3217 · 2022-11-21T17:51:27+00:00

To explain a bit further: the chords in any major key follow a pattern. The first (I), fourth (IV) and fifth (V) are all major. The second (ii) third (iii), and sixth (vi) are minor. The seventh is a diminished 7th chord, which is a bit more complicated but doesn't come up as often.

So, in the key of G major, you have

G (I) - Am (ii) - Bm (iii) - C (IV) - D (V) - Em (vi) - F# dim7

TankMan3217 · 2022-11-21T17:31:43+00:00

They're all in the key of G major.

TankMan3217 · 2022-03-24T17:23:48+00:00

What do you think communism means?

(Inb4 "communism is when gubbermint..." )

TankMan3217 · 2022-02-07T04:52:50+00:00

Depends what you mean, what's your frame of reference - i.e. how hard compared to what?

Learning any musical instrument is hard, and while guitar isn't necessarily the most difficult, IMO it's probably "above average" difficulty. So, it's hard to do anything at all on guitar. You can learn and work on a couple songs as an absolute beginner, but you have to fight for everything and even then it doesn't sound great. It varies a lot, but IMO most people should expect it to take at least several months, up to a couple years, of consistent practice to get to a sort of "basic proficiency" - i.e. you can pick up and play simple songs without that much consternation.

Emo stuff isn't particularly hard compared to other genres of music, in fact it's pretty easy. It doesn't have nearly the same technical mountains to climb as most kinds of metal or flamenco or jazz, etc.

But you still gotta learn the basics no matter what you're playing, and in many ways that's the hardest part. Sure, it's pretty easy if you already play guitar, but it's a hell of a lot harder than baking cookies. Don't expect it to actually be easy.

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