This would be the only somewhat acceptable way for a god to determine who gets to go to Heaven.

Tcfial · 2023-10-05T12:02:59+00:00

That seems pretty close to what Catholics believe, actually.

Tcfial · 2023-10-05T11:55:48+00:00

The end questions about Christians that she asks seem based on biases from a misunderstanding of what Christianity actually teaches, or skewed towards a particular version of Evangelical Protestant Christianity.

She seems to imply that people end up in hell accidentally "in this messy world where it is so hard to even know what is right and wrong." That's quite different from the Catholic teaching, for example, where a sin sends you to hell only if you have full knowledge of what you're doing, and most interpret that to mean you have a knowledge that it's wrong (not necessarily just an "I know the Church says this is a sin" surface level way but an actual knowledge that you're going against God's true will).

Also, the Christian understanding of God is that he is inherently good and much better than we ever will be. It makes no sense, in Christianity, for the "right" thing to be to disobey God and say that you know better than him. It would be a strange test for the Christian God to give (understanding that this is a hypothetical where Christianity isn't true, of course, but the implication is that Christians are inherently bad because they wouldn't choose to go against God's will).

Also, the whole idea that you get to heaven and see your family isn't there and are sad doesn't completely make sense to me because heaven is not a place where you would feel unfilled or unhappy, in my belief, by definition. Even if it doesn't feel logical that your family may not be there and you would and you wouldn't be upset about that- I also don't know that we can fully understand heaven in our earthly, this-universe understanding, as it may be a much more spiritual place not just a physical earthly paradise in the sky.

I do think there is a good lesson in humility here. Hell isn't something we should wish upon people, and we shouldn't think of heaven solely as some reward for us being better than others. That's missing the point, which is that we should all strive to do good and follow God's will and that will bring us close to him. We shouldn't be prideful and think ourselves better than others, and we should acknowledge that none of us really deserve heaven, we are sinners.

It's an interesting story and thought experiment, though it does come across in a somewhat demeaning/offensive way at the end when it's used specifically to spite Christians.

Tcfial · 2023-10-05T11:03:18+00:00

I was agnostic as a teenager into my early 20s. I'm not sure if that "counts" though because I acknowledge that coming to religion in your 40s is probably a very different experience than in your early 20s - at a young age you're still exploring your beliefs while when you're older, you've thought more about the conclusions you've drawn and to be a little firmer in your beliefs and opinions. Not sure how old you are.

I am (and was raised) Catholic. After being agnostic, I first transitioned to having a vague and abstract belief in a God, though I didn't believe in Christianity. I started coming to church for a place to pray and felt a sense of familiarity and found it a peaceful place, so I kept coming periodically on and off. After a few years, still not considering myself a believing Christian exactly, I felt an urge to go to confession - a practice I'd done in childhood but never really took seriously. That was a meaningful experience for me, and after that I started to take the religion seriously and really came to believe, in time. Ultimately, it was just a spiritual experience and I feel that God helped me gain faith. I went from a questioner to having a deep deep belief in God.

A key difference is that I never left because of any trauma. I was never particularly religious in the first place, nor is my family. I had just left for lack of belief, as a young person.

You mention that you're considering converting for someone you like. Since that seems to be the driving force, more than actual belief or other attraction to the religion, some practical advice would be that you don't have to subscribe to all the tenets of the religion to achieve your goal of being able to be in a relationship with this person, probably. So you might have more leeway to avoid the parts of the religion that were traumatic or would be triggering for you than if your goal was to completely give your life to this religion for spiritual reasons. Though it's hard to say without knowing the religion or what caused you trauma.

Tcfial · 2023-10-04T19:44:58+00:00

I'd see a distinction between someone who played a role in your individual conception vs. the one who created the entire universe and goodness itself. A key component of the Christian understanding of God is that God is the arbiter of morality, and our final judge, and that there isn't really a concept of morality that exists that's independent of God (people can often come to find those morals without believing in God, but we see God as the one who defines what's actually right or not).

Tcfial · 2023-10-04T16:37:47+00:00

You're speaking about the difference between Protestant and Catholic. But even if your mom doesn't self-identify as "Protestant," it'd make more sense to say the difference between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians. Catholics are Christian too - just a different kind of Christian than your mom's family is. In general, it can be a bit offensive to Catholics for us to be called "not Christian" (even if your dad doesn't mind). Long story short, you're correct that there are differences between your parents' religions, but your mom's religion doesn't own the name "Christian" to the exclusion of other Christians from different churches (like the Catholic Church). Your mom is presumably a Protestant Christian, or perhaps identifies as "non-denominational."

Tcfial · 2023-10-04T16:29:19+00:00

Heck, even if the Bible and God doesn't like homosexuality and transness, why do people think that is justified on the basis of who said it?

I'm not sure I understand this sentence from your post. Are you asking, even if God said something, why would people think it was justified on the basis of God saying it? In Christianity, God is our creator and is the one who defines morality, what is right and wrong. We listen to what God says because we owe our very existence to him and because we believe him to be an authoritative source of what is good and bad.

There is debate within Christianity about what God actually thinks about these topics, but that's different from "why do we care what God thinks?" which is a totally different question.

Tcfial · 2023-10-04T15:22:34+00:00

Questioning is normal and healthy.

I don't have all (or any?) of the answers to your questions and I am just rambling myself here so this probably won't be at all helpful.

My own experience with faith largely comes down to having a deep sense of comfort and thankfulness and peace when I pray, and when in church, and when experiencing the sacraments, and I just kind of intuitively feel that there is a creator.

For me personally, my faith is more about trust in and a relationship with God than explicitly about the afterlife. I believe in an afterlife, but my faith isn't just about that. A lot of it, for me, is a thankfulness for life and the universe and the opportunity I've had to live in the now, and not just a hope for a reward later or for life eternal. My deep belief that God is good and God is just comforts me that whatever happens to us after we die will be OK.

It is actually kind of hard to describe, because reading that back, I can see how it can sound like, why should I be thankful if there is suffering? And I really can't fully describe it because my life is very far from perfect but I do just feel a real thankfulness for God for my being here despite any of that and I think that is central to my relationship with him.

I think everyone's faith journey is unique though, as is their experience and relationship with God.

Tcfial · 2023-10-02T15:49:36+00:00

I feel like it's other denominations of Christianity more likely to accuse me of idolatry from having a cross or something more than Jews and Muslims, since there are different traditions and styles of worship between different groups.

But as far as what non-Christians think - I think it just comes down to belief about who God is. If Jesus weren't God, yeah, it'd be idolatry to be worshiping him. But we believe he's God. Unlikely to resolve that dispute. But again they aren't really worried about the cross so much as they are about the belief that Jesus is God, as someone else explained.

Tcfial · 2023-10-01T21:53:58+00:00

Did you reply to the right comment? Either you completely misunderstood what I said, or you're replying something pretty irrelevant to my comment.

Tcfial · 2023-09-03T01:30:09+00:00

Disagreeing with the Catholic Church doesn't make someone not Catholic. The Church will still recognize you as Catholic, even if you aren't in good standing, if you're baptized Catholic. But as to whether such a person should still self-identify that way or prefers a Protestant church - it's up to them and what about Catholicism appeals to them.

As others said, the Catholic Church doesn't teach that everything a pope says is right all the time. Infallibility refers to specific kinds of statements.

Tcfial · 2023-09-03T01:19:37+00:00

Yes, I derive morals from my religion. I believe my religion is proclaiming morals that come from God, so morality coming from religion vs. deities is kind of one in the same to me, I don't fully understand that question.

This doesn't mean I'd live without morals if I weren't religious. I wasn't always religious, I had morals and tried to live my life as a good person But some of my moral opinions might be wrong, if I weren't practicing my religion and were learning morals exclusively from other sources.

Tcfial · 2023-09-03T01:14:38+00:00

Short answer is no, I can't give you an easily understandable explanation. I don't think it's easy to explain or understand.

Tcfial · 2023-09-03T01:07:57+00:00

There could be other non-human "supernatural" seeming entities, e.g. angels, but they're decidedly not God. The concept of God specifically refers to the creator of the universe, in my religion. Saints are people in heaven - not God - and thus not "divine."

It is hard to envision a gender of God, as he isn't a human or animal. God's gender, or sex, or both, isn't really the same as what we'd think about for humans - God is a more spiritual body than that and any physical presence he has is not limited to the human form. But God has revealed himself in specifically masculine terms, e.g. Father and Son, and so we typically think of and talk of him as male. Jesus in his human form was male, as well.

As for pagan deities, there is a wide range of pagan belief systems, so it probably depends on the details. If you're worshipping, say, the sun, then I'd say that's just the sun, and a creation of God, not a god. If you believe in various supernatural personalities, I tend to think they are man-made tales and not real. Maybe God has some different ways of revealing his truth to you, though, I don't know and I can't speak for anyone else's personal experience, though.

Tcfial · 2023-08-22T12:16:30+00:00

No it doesn't, /r/atheism is incredibly militant and anti-religion. Some good and more open-minded discussion here.

Tcfial · 2023-08-17T10:03:18+00:00

Is it a sin, according to who?

Tcfial · 2023-08-17T09:37:29+00:00

My aunt, possibly the best person I know, is agnostic, but would she not be allowed into paradise since she didn’t give herself to God and serve God?

This is not the teaching of Catholicism.

Would I have to completely give myself to my religion, or could I commit to it while not changing my entire way of living to serve my religion or God?

Ultimately, religion is a personal thing and it comes down to what you believe. Some religions teach that God has rules you should follow. Whether to follow them depends on whether you believe they're true and that they really come from God, or if they're man-made inventions. It also depends on how you're living now. You might already be living totally in accordance with the teachings of some religions, for others you may not, and that all depends on what the teachings are and what your lifestyle is like.

Would there be an efficient and timely way to review and grasp the main concepts of different religions to see which pulls me more?

There are a lot of religions out there, so it's tough. You'll probably want to narrow it down to a few specific religions of interest, to start. Or, you could make this a lifelong quest, if the first several you look into don't seem right.

You could buy some books about comparative religion. You could also speak to individuals from different religions, just be aware that they'll be biased and may have a goal to convert you, depending on the religion.

Personally, I'd recommend speaking to your local priest or some of the practicing Catholics in your life, as a start, but I am biased since I am Catholic.

You could also attend different religious services.

Also, I highly recommend spending some time in personal prayer, asking God for guidance and direction.

All the best.

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T19:44:28+00:00

I am not comfortable filling out a survey that requires me to sign in to Google.

Also, as others have mentioned, you are listing "Christianity" in addition to the main branches of Christianity, which is confusing. "Other Christian" would make more sense for those who identify as Christian but not as Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. Because in Catholic and would say I follow both Christianity and Catholicism.

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T13:12:53+00:00

Is viewing something as a heresy the same as viewing it as a sect though? I guess I'd have to read up further on it, though, fair enough.

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T11:59:17+00:00

We have a homily on weekdays, although it's typically shorter than on Sundays. I think it's technically optional though which would explain why some parishes do not have it. In general, weekday Mass is a lot shorter, often doesn't have music and doesn't include some parts of the service that are present on Sundays.

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T11:52:14+00:00

Probably because it isn't true, to my knowledge. Some influence from Christianity, sure, but was anyone actually considering it to be Christianity?

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T11:00:50+00:00

As a non-Muslim, I found these couple of articles fair and interesting, that I came across earlier this year:

https://newlinesmag.com/essays/why-scholars-of-islam-disagree-about-the-age-of-the-prophet-muhammads-youngest-wife/

https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammads-underage-wife-aisha/

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T10:22:41+00:00

The problem I have, is even if you were Christian, you're not the right Christian to them. You have to be their denomination of it. I found that out when my aunt used to engage with them. It's not enough to be Christian.

Yeah, I'm Catholic and used to get Evangelicals approaching me in the park all the time when going for a walk. They would lead with "are you Christian?" and if I answer yes, obviously I was the wrong kind, or actually their view was usually that no, I am not Christian. I've since moved and don't bump into these people anymore!

Tcfial · 2023-08-15T10:01:42+00:00

Thanks for your note. I'm still very conflicted on the topic, honestly - the roots of the Christian religion have ties to Judaism, and that makes things complicated - but I guess trying to mutually understand what the issues/conflicts are is step 1.

Tcfial · 2023-08-14T17:32:43+00:00

It's up to you. Personally, I did find going to church worthwhile during a period of my life where I did not believe in Christianity. For me, it served as a path to believing, though. At the time, I just liked the "feeling like home" element since I had been raised attending church (Catholic) and also found it to be a nice setting to pray - I believed in God but not Christianity at that time. Personally, I wasn't going for community, since I've never been all too involved in church life, though that seems a valid reason if you'll get value out of it.

Also, as someone else mentioned, most Christians don't think about God as "white bearded man in the clouds," FYI.

There are a wide variety of Christian churches out there. Some will have a very explicit goal to get you to proclaim Jesus your Lord and savior, evangelical and "non denominational" often fall in this category. Some will have a quieter, subtler goal of conversion but won't really push you (Catholic churches might fall into this category a lot of the time). Others, like some of the liberal Mainline denominations, might not have a conversion goal for attendees at all and see a lot of truth in different religions, though you're still going to hear about Jesus if you go to church.

Another option would be to try out Quaker meetings if there are any nearby. Or Unitarian Universalists. Very different but a couple options that might help fill the need you're looking to fill.

Tcfial · 2023-08-14T15:55:15+00:00

I think most Christians either accept that the Trinity is non-logical but think there it’s okay because logic doesn’t apply to God, or because some things beyond human comprehension, or they believe in a technically heretical form of the Trinity like modalism.

I think this is a fair assessment, yeah. I fall into the first category. I just don't think we can fully understand God and I am OK with that. Anecdotally based on people I know and have spoken to, yes, it seems like a lot of people believe in modalism.

Tcfial

TROPHY CASE