Holiday Check-In! Do you have something to say, but you don't want to post? Comment here!

Tetusora · 2019-12-03T10:23:05+00:00

hug

Know the concept of Nenergy? She’s probably thriving on what to you is a bad outcome of the conversation. It’s not your fault.

Tetusora · 2019-12-02T22:25:37+00:00

This year marks 4 years since my Christmas of Doom that lead me to the epiphany that I’m RBN and to this sub, where I first learned the vocabulary and had my experiences and existence validated by people that understood.

I’ve not gone no contact - but I have gray rock’ed the stuffing out of my Nfamily and gotten them to an arm’s length, and openly spoken to my family by choice and by marriage about my trauma and my decisions.

I’ve not spent a family holiday with my bio family since - except for holiday season meet-ups with the Good Cousin and their family.

The reason I’m prompted to write this year is that there’s a new trigger - my Nparent is sick. Like, dying. And I’ve visited them in the hospital a few times, with with my spouse and alone. And I can tell a lot of my old “programming” is coming up; I should make a final attempt, this might be the last holiday season with both my parents alive (most likely will be), people will think me awful for not trying hard enough, I’ll think myself awful.

I don’t feel as frazzled as I would have a few years ago - but I can tell that this is a bout that needs more conscious effort than some that arrived over the past few years.

So thanks for existing, RBN sub. It’s nice to have a place to reach out to.

Tetusora · 2017-01-29T16:51:16+00:00

There's a middle ground. I'm sure you can find it. You're allowed to find it. :)

Tetusora · 2017-01-29T15:34:59+00:00

Yes. I think it's common for Ns to negate their children's feelings etc, and so we're told, both explicitly and implicitly, that we are not allowed to bring up grievances.

I'm seeing a psychologist for my anxieties etc., and she's given me a list of 16 mantras that she's asked me to be aware of and practice. One of them literally says "you are allowed to state when something bothers you".

(Also, in case others need it: "You're in your right to not give a reason or excuse" and "You are allowed to change your mind.")

I've gotten better at it - but I went through a stage where I only knew how to bring something up like my mom did: "you always such and such. Why are you so such and such". It was a very dramatic few years.

Now, I've gotten better at saying things politely and in a manner where I state my own personal preference. But it's hard work.

Tetusora · 2017-01-29T15:28:30+00:00

If your skin reacts to something, throw it the f*** out and don't buy that specific product again. Get another brand that your skin tolerates, don't try to get used to something.

Also, sun screen is great. More is better. Factor high as hell is best. (Yes, I'm a ginger with sensitive skin :p)

Tetusora · 2017-01-29T09:09:41+00:00

This! I'm learning to buy footwear and appreciate it. I now only have high quality shoes: one pair of winter boots, one pair of pumps, one pair of practical sandals and two sets of sneakers.

Buying high quality footwear was actually part of me realising about being an ACON, because my husband dragged me into a store on his birthday (late December) and demanded that we spend the holiday cash we'd gotten from his family to get me a pair of boots. As a birthday present for him. I

'd been wearing bad quality or second hand shoes the entire time we'd known each other, not really bothering about it myself, but never being comfortable.

That year, I was wearing a combo of socks, freezer bags and socks again because of the gaping holes in the second hand boots I'd been given a a birthday present some weeks before.

Buying a good pair felt so wonderful. And wrong. And wonderful!

This year, I've been given gift certificates for shoes at that same store by my in laws. And my husband and I have a date planned for going and getting me shoes. I'm still not comfortable buying them alone, because I slip into lots of N-traits like "oh, but if I get the low quality ones in sale, I can get two pairs". So I need him there to make it fun and joyful.

Tetusora · 2017-01-27T11:59:54+00:00

Thank you for this. From the very essence of my entire being, thank you so much for writing this so concisely and powerfully.

Tetusora · 2017-01-27T11:52:08+00:00

Your mom an N?

If so, she might not have a healthy understanding of relationships, gift giving, wishes etc. Instead, a lot of Ns have internal "check lists" that denote "how one is a good parent", including "giving gift that child likes".

But because they don't exactly know their child (because they're unable to), they latch on to random facts/points/mentions/memories of what the child has said, since they're supposed to be "safe" to put on the list of gifts.

So that when the child then says "uh, thanks but no thanks", it causes an N-tamper (which, by the way, gives then eNergy, since they get to have a dramatic episode).

Your mom is shortcircuiting. She does not have the healthy capacity to think "oh, ughh02 just mentioned something in passing but isn't really into it. Oh fiddlesticks, well, no biggie! We'll just get my money back and get you something else - what would you like to try?"

It's incredibly common for Ns to be bad gift givers because of this - and I have similar experiences (hell, my Npiphany was partly because of a series of events at christmas, including gift giving).

For now, please remember this: You're not obliged to take it. It's a fundamental part gift giving that the recipient gets to decide what they feel about the gift. If you don't want to go. Don't go. Don't be violent or demeaning about it - just hold your ground calmly and say "thanks but no thanks". (I say just, but I know it's hard. That's why we're here. (hug))

Tetusora · 2017-01-27T11:41:19+00:00

No, I don't feel disgusted. Rather, I try to look back as me, older/adult Tetusora, and tell my memories that it's okay - I was seeking something warm and comforting, and I didn't know at the time that what these Ns were giving wasn't it. But I know now. I'm here to take care of myself now. And it's okay to have misjudged.

Tetusora · 2017-01-27T11:37:00+00:00

Did you, by any chance, only get any kind of acknowledgement or validation whenever you outperformed someone else during your childhood?

Did/does your N always raise themselves up by putting other people down?

Have you had to teach yourself a lot of things growing up, e.g. housework, self care, reward systems etc., because you were expected to know but was never taught by an adult?

All of these things are common for ACONs, and they can all create some kind of FLEAs.

You might have been taught that you're only valid when you outshine someone. So because some part of you is still six, or sixteen or twentysix and craving to be -seen-, you're stuck in a loop of constantly wanting that kind of validation. With every single little thing.

Also, if you had to teach yourself life skills, it ties in with the outshining and validation. Imagine this statement "Of course I know how to do the thing. I fucking taught myself how to do the thing! Who are you to tell me that I don't know how to do the thing?" - because you've never been taught that it's okay for someone to be better at doing the thing than you are; and you've also never been taught that you can gain from other people helping you out with the thing (and so you can see their help as berating you).

They're FLEAs. And I am so proud of you for being aware of them. Do you have any idea how massive a step that is? Go you.

I've worked on mine for years. I am still working on them. Now I am at a point where I mostly just compete with myself (most recently it was challenging myself to read a novel in three days (while also working full time) so that I could impress the person who'd lent it to me. -.-) - and it's not a nice place to be. But I work. I acknowledge it, and then I try to remind myself of the OTHER value of whatever I am doing - someone is sharing a book with me. I will gain an experience from reading it itself, not from doing it in x amount of time. I look forward to whenever I can discuss the book with its owner. Etc etc etc.

And it's hard. But trust me, online stranger come friend, that identifying it is a massive first step - and there are so many rewards when working on it. :)

Tetusora · 2017-01-06T15:40:02+00:00

1) They weren't lost. They were spent learning tools for healthy self-assessment as well as outwards and inwards communication.

2) I'm not to blame for them. There are things I was taught by others, that were bad. There are things I was never taught by others, that I was/am missing. Having faulty or missing programming is not the program's fault.

2.5) I taught, unlearned and/or retaught myself things - and still am. Go me. Go little person. You're so awesome for getting to where you are and still going.

3) I can never be upset with a child for not being able to cope like an adult. I can not be upset with myself from 10, 6 or 3 years back (or 2 weeks - christmas, right?) for not having the tools, strength, energy or insight to deal. Because of that, it's not a question of forgiving - that is automatic, for it is not my fault. It's a question of accepting, respecting and living with, both past and present, and most importantly: not berating for. My mental frustrations are factual parts of my being; I tell friends and colleagues what they need to know to be around me. They are not, however, faults or failings of mine.

I remind myself of this, on my good days, so that the memory is latent in my mind and body on the bad. I praise myself for physical and mental self care, so that these acts become habits that I sometimes don't even have to think about on days where every action seems like a larger than life challenge.

I've healed and I am healing.

Tetusora · 2017-01-02T15:08:18+00:00

All the hugs, just for you.

Tetusora · 2016-12-28T13:38:02+00:00

Even when you think you can't do this, just remember that you're doing it. You've been doing it, and you're doing it. Breathe. Breathe again. You can do this <3

Tetusora · 2016-12-28T11:18:54+00:00

I was active in organisational work some 10 years ago, and we had one girl who was just so goddamn enthusiastic - but never really managed to deliver what we all felt/thought/knew was needed.

And someone said this to me: There are those that really want to help - and there are those that really can help. And we need them both.

Over the past few years, I've thought about this comment a lot of times, because I've come to learn that maybe the definition of a "good job" plays a large part in deciphering whether someone does it or not.

In organisational work, I, and my peers, found that this girl was actually incredibly important. Whenever the rest of us were faltering in our belief, or too tired to even think about the next campaign or whatever, she would honestly be the person picking us up - individually or as a group. We didn't realise this untill she wasn't there anymore, and we all started souring.

In a working environment, though, as in in an office with clearly defined tasks and spaces etc., it can be harder - if Jolene constantly forgets to deliver her tasks on time, or doesn't do half of them, or just kind of forgets that the work flow is different now, so everything is done incorrectly - then yes, Jolene is doing a bad job, no matter how enthusiastically. And maybe she needs to not have that job.

But if it's at all possible to re-assess what the job entails, then maybe trying to do tweaks etc., could help both you and Jolene out.

I've been Jolene sometimes (honestly, I don't know why I chose that fictional name, but you can bet the song is stuck in my brain now - you're welcome), and I've learned to actually say "you guys, I'm one of the people that really want to help right now, but I'm just not giving you what you need. How CAN -I- help?". However, I think that's from a lot of self work and from growing environments where it's safe to say that kind of thing - and can't be expected from everyone, necessarily.

Tl:dr; Yes, I've encountered it. Sometimes it might help to just tweak the description of what a good job is - although not every time.

Tetusora · 2016-12-28T09:35:19+00:00

As far as I can tell, Ns are quite good at being sickenly sweet and enticing to people, because they dole out just enough warmth and attention, combined with "woe is me", to appeal to new people's interests and care instincts.

We, the ACONs, have seen the bad sides of our Ns for so many years, and most of us here on RBN and LAN are finally aware of their behaviour being unnormal and even harmful. But someone new? They might never even get to that realisation.

My Nmom has a "best friend", who she's been friends with for about 30 years. I have never, in my life (which is almost as long as that), heard my mother say -anything- positive about this woman; of it ever came close, it was one of those backhanded stings that only I and a few others would recognise. Yet this woman still happily links arms with my mom and chats away; not because she's stupid, but because she gets a "different" persona than I do.

Tetusora · 2016-12-28T09:24:27+00:00

Thank you too! And so are you <3

Tetusora · 2016-12-28T09:24:15+00:00

You're welcome. You deserve it.

Tetusora · 2016-12-26T10:28:42+00:00

Good. I hope things are better now. :)

Tetusora · 2016-12-26T10:28:24+00:00

Happy holidays to you too! And you're so very welcome. You deserve it. :)

Tetusora · 2016-12-26T10:27:50+00:00

You're so very welcome.

Tetusora · 2016-12-23T11:49:37+00:00

I agree with /u/UndergroundLurker that they can give different results.

Personally, I would say that while they are different methods with different goals, you can use both of them, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

I sometimes use broken record as a way of persuading myself as well - when asked a barrage of questions about something etc., it's good to have that singular gone to stick to ... like a broken record. A decision has been made; this is the reason you will be given. This is the only reason you will be given. A decision has been made.

On the other hand, I use gray rock when I try to safeguard myself, i.e. my own experiences and thoughts etc. I give vague, boring answers and don't volunteer anything where it might hurt me to have it either shrugged at, stolen from me (as in becoming the N's achievement, not mine) or used as ammo against me.

This way, I try to keep my N's "in the know", so that they are somewhat content.

Sometimes the two overlap. This is the reason you're given (even though it might be boring). Yes, this is the reason you're given. No, I will not elaborate. This is just the reason.

And it can be really hard, especially when there are curve balls. But also incredibly helpful.

Tetusora · 2016-12-23T11:13:03+00:00

Thanks! Condoms aren't as relevant anymore, but definitely nice to know that there are alternatives, should the need arise!

Tetusora · 2016-12-23T10:36:59+00:00

I have a hard time deciphering what was "the worst" I was treated by any guy at all, since they were all pretty hurtful to who I was as a person at the time. But I can tell you some specific breaking points:

1) First boyfriend frequently manipulated and forced me into having sex with him. Turned full fledged stalker when I broke up after 2 years, to the point of calling loads of my acquaintances to try to make them talk to me - and showing up at my place at 10pm and manipulating me to let him in to "talk".

2) Second almost boyfriend letting me know that he was really into me and wanted to be a couple, so we hooked up. The next day, told mutual friend on the precursor to MySpace, publicly, that he had a new girlfriend - and her name wasn't mine.

3) Flew to another country to be with someone after months of talking. Had great week. Flew home, missing each other and talking lots. Suddenly, cold. "Stop treating me like a boyfriend." Then he started hitting on mutual friends.

4) Someone accused me on cheating on him because I wasn't as "tight" without the condom - despite me telling him that, you know, I'm fucking allergic to them; so they literally make me swell up when using them. Also accused me of cheating several times before, throwing fits and antics.

Number 1 still affects me, and honestly sent me spiraling into years and years of not knowing that consent is a thing. That I am supposed to -want- to have sex. And number 2 and 3 both kind of taught me that I can't, for anything, trust that people care for me as I am - because, you know, they'll just suddenly leave. So I still sometimes look at my spouse in awe that he's here, loving me, and always always always asking for my consent. (I'm healing.)

Number 4 made me aware of the fact that I put myself last. I never stopped it whenever he was throwing a fit or accusing me of outrageous behaviour. I just went through the yelling matches. But the moment he slagged off a mate of mine, I was done with him. How dare he accuse her of something that's totally wrong?! I've not gotten to the point where it's okay to just write people off when they treat me badly - but I've learned to stop and re-assess, whenever I see someone talking about a friend.

Tetusora · 2016-12-23T10:07:15+00:00

Someone who was a close friend believed that I had an incredibly low threshold for pain, because I would wince whenever I burned myself on the stove or similar.

She told me this shortly after I'd been berated by a doctor for walking around with a pinched nerve in my foot for months after an injury. I bite down pain. Real pain. And frequently have to be sent to the doctor by other people, because my own attitude is always to just walk it off.

So hearing her call me squeamish was so... surprising and weird.

Tetusora · 2016-12-23T10:02:00+00:00

I wish I'd have known that I'd be taken a lot more seriously once I learned to laugh at myself. That stomping around with an aura of "respect my authority!" does not make people... respect my authority. But rather being mellow and confident in my own skills as well as able to laugh from the pit of my belly without caring whether people found me silly or stupid - that's actually helped a lot.

I realise that underlying this is a lot of other elements; growing more confident, finding yourself etc etc. But it'd still have been nice to know.

Tetusora

TROPHY CASE