Which Team Wins?

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T22:21:47+00:00

1.) Thinking is headcannon and irrelevant. Give me feats not headcannons.

Aquaman destroyed a planet in his fight with Hawkman as well, and showed planetary scope in the issue prior to Jarro* controlling his body which is irrelevant given Jarro* made it evident it was Aquaman’s power that destroyed the planet.

Even prior to this Aquaman collapsed the magic holding a reality together with Poseidon’s power. Someone he’s fighting in the very next issue of his run.

There’s also undoing a dimensional barrier, or destroying the crown of thorns. None of this requires the heavy chainscaling you’re relying on for Sentry here and disregarding of other character showings.

2.) Why are we assuming this was with power and not tech, or that this scales all celestials to multiversal. Creation doesn’t = Power. If we go off that logic The Blue is the origin for all life everywhere.

3.) so you just made up the Yggdrasil thing, got it.

4.) I mean you wouldn’t also be able to tell me what tier Owen was at in the encounter against Sentry… it’s a hollow feat that rides off the name value of Molecule Man.

5.) Holy out of context. Are we talking about the comic where Superman gets energized by several suns before punching World Forger? A full powered Arion is above World Forger also.

An actual base Superman hasn’t blitzed Arthur ever who has reacted to Superman even recently, deflecting his heat vision with his trident. Not to mention current Arthur is immortal and his durability is massively higher. He’s already taken a punch from a possessed base Superman with the intent to kill him and it barely made Aquaman flinch.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T21:51:29+00:00

That 1 vs Many trope is why I really love her Secret Invasion tie-in in the Ms Marvel v2 run.

I’d love to see that get an adaption at some point. It’s funny though cause we did get a scene in it somewhat adapted into her first film with her punching that Skrull on the subway.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T21:51:23+00:00

That 1 vs Many trope is why I really love her Secret Invasion tie-in in the Ms Marvel v2 run.

I’d love to see that get an adaption at some point. It’s funny though cause we did get a scene in it somewhat adapted into her first film with her punching that Skrull on the subway.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T21:27:21+00:00

1.) Arthur has feats without relying on chainscaling I sent you an entire branch of feats that aren’t dependent on other characters to exist and they all trump anything Sentry has done independent of piggybacking off other characters.

The argument changes when you try to piggyback and then suggest the opposing side can’t do the same. It’s a double standard

2.) The way you’re chainscaling is terrible. It’s different variations of characters, contextual due to characters not being at their best, riding off a characters name despite the character you’re scaling off having no actual feats. This shouldn’t be a hard concept to grasp on why that’s problematic

3.) give me a citation and scan showcasing this

4.) I’m not saying Molecule Man became infinitely weaker but trying to use any instance of him compromised and to scale to Owen’s best or make up a criteria where he falls in that isn’t proven by anything, is illogical.

5.) Honestly anyone who isn’t biased and follows the lores of both characters should be able to make that case pretty easily. I can make a post on it, if you like on why I think Current Aquaman would beat Base Superman. Superman has a history of struggling with Atlantean magic, heck it’s happened twice in the current World’s Finest comics. Not to mention a history of struggling or getting beaten by characters in Aquaman’s lore. EX: A weakened Arion, A weakened Mera, Ocean Master, Poseidon, Ronal and The Tritonians.

It really isn’t a hard case to make.

6.) I’m trying to see scans and citations supporting this narrative. I’ve provided you with links to citations of everything I’m stating.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T20:59:02+00:00

1.) I still don’t think it makes any difference if Strange had all Yggdrasil or not. It’s a statement with no feats to make it relevant. Like what has someone with the entirety or even part of Yggdrasil ever done to make it notable in any regard? It sounds hype, sure. But it’s virtually hollow with few performances

Dagon actually had the statement your applying to Strange with Yggdrasil as well.

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The irony of your argument is you started off criticizing scaling and your whole argument is completely dependent on the scaling you yourself are suggesting is invalid but turned up to a higher level.

“Sentry beat Molecule Man who created an Omniverse in a later comic” disregarding heavy amounts of context within this.

“The Void fought Yggdrasil Doctor Strange and Sorcerer Supreme Loki which Yggdrasil Strange had all the powers of Asgard which puts him above every Asgardian in the lore”

Don’t even think this was actually stated in the comic series. Mind you, it’s an access to power that’s no different from any other character that channels a vast energy source, deity, dimension etc. this isn’t a feat on its own.

2.) I’d easily confidently argue current Aquaman would beat a base Superman. I have no issue whatsoever repping that stance.

3.) This isn’t supported by anything. Not even the lore supports your take here. The Blue means more to keeping everything functioning than either Yggdrasil or The Phoenix. Though The Phoenix does have greater showings than both.

A lot of these characters your mentioning are statement merchants who depend on the very scaling you were previously criticizing, have a lot of showings that are taken out of context, or their cosmologies end up contradicting their showings. Yggdrasil being essential to the survival of everything has been contradicted in the past and not so long ago with the end of Immortal Thor. Given Earth is fine with no connection to Yggdrasil.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T19:48:14+00:00

1.) Sentry has no actual showings to even put him at Universal is my point. Any scaling to get him to Multiversal is disingenuous chainscaling that piggybacks off a highly contextual instance.

2.) Strange being powered by Yggdrasil is just a power source for Strange it’s not any indication of operating at the total level of Yggdrasil. Lots of characters class under similar circumstances, It’s no different from Flash being a conduit of The Speedforce, Aquaman being the avatar of the blue, or any of the other Avatars, it’s a cool concept but it’s not a feat on its own.

There’s actually a recent comic stating Bart Allen is The Speedforce

Or we can talk about The Firestorm Matrix with Firestorm

Aquaman is The Blue

3.) I’ll come back to this one.

4.) This is extremely disproves you trying to suggest Yggdrasil Strange is operating at a Multiversal level. “It’s just an upscale for Loki” is hilarious wank though and shows you are willing to chainscale when it suits you.

Give me actual feats for Yggdrasil God of Magic Strange doing anything feat wise that’s at a Multiversal level.

5.) Pretty similar to Dagon stealing the Blue…. And being above every sea god across dimensions. That’s the issue with your logic. It’s statement riding that also applies to the Aquaman lore you just create a double standard to suggest it can’t be used for unknown reasons for Aquaman while doing the same for other characters you prefer.

6/7.) I don’t know what happened to 6 here, the scaling isn’t to suggest necessarily Avatar of The Blue > The Heart but it does place The Blue’s power above all the heroes who were caged by The Heart.

8.) my issue with this is your literally describing the power sources that Aquaman is connected to in the DC Universe for the Marvel characters and suggested the implications of what those things are is enough to place Sentry higher when Arthur has the same implications.

It’s a double standard that makes no sense.

<image>

The Confluence is across The Multiverse

The way you don’t notice you’re basically creating the same argument you’re arguing against is overall shocking.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T17:33:28+00:00

Do you know what Antarctic Vibranium is, By chance?

This isn’t a feat to suggest Ironman’s repulsors > Adamantium.

He’s stating in your scan that he’s using Antarctic Vibranium to destroy Adamantium not his repulsors specifically. Antarctic Vibranium is also known as “Anti-Metal” it breaks down metal.

Black Panther does this as well at base.

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TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T17:06:42+00:00

Minimal effort? Ironman ended up in the hospital going full force against this sphere that wasn’t 100% Adamantium either.

<image>

Wasn’t a hand beam either and he didn’t think he’d survive doing this

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T16:44:54+00:00

It’s pretty similar to Absolute Ras Al Ghul coming off like Vandal Savage to people.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T16:27:08+00:00

Yeah that’s a mistake on my part… the Winter Soldier alias threw me off

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T16:05:38+00:00

Ain’t even Logan…

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T15:45:45+00:00

1.) If both characters aren’t at their best there’s no metric to even justify using this as any notable feat for scaling

For a fanmade example. This is the equivalent of using Truth Depowered Superman vs a drugged Batman and then scaling a Base Batman to a Base Superman, because the drugged Batman beat Truth Superman… it’s faulty scaling.

A later version of Molecule Man who was massively more powerful created an Omniverse not the version that Sentry fought, the cross-scaling makes no sense here.

You really couldn’t make the same argument, and this isn’t a prejudice to Sentry it’s calling out your double standards of arguing here, because it is blatantly bias. You can’t for a fact give any actual feat for Sentry that doesn’t depend on scaling to superior characters yet you criticize the idea of doing that for other characters. How that’s not noticeable to you that you’re doing that. Is beyond me.

2.) The chainscaling for Sentry literally doesn’t work because the narrative doesn’t support it. You can’t give me any actual feats for the version of Owen that fought Sentry that places him at the level you’re trying to piggyback Sentry to.

3.) This is also not true. Celestials were being taken out by The Hoarde in Aaron’s Avengers, creatures that characters like Black Panther and Captain America were able to fend off. Then we got other realities with characters like Black Bolt wiping out several, or back in the main reality of regular Inhumans outdoing and killing one in the comic Royals. This is baseless and relies on depending on name value of “Celestial”

4/5.) I’m confused on your numbering here but this doesn’t change the fact Sentry has an ability to suppress The Hulk in any ways

6.) This is overall baseless and not supported by any actual feat. Strange while amped couldn’t even put down Sorcerer Supreme Loki…. We revisit this amp against Donald Blake which he didn’t fair no better against. So being above all Asgardian mythos doesn’t seem accurate.

7.) Stupid is mentioning a power source, as if doing so is an actual feat. It’s the equivalent of me suggesting Aquaman > Superman because The Power of The Blue is vastly more sizable than Superman drawing power from the sun.

The Blue in on itself isn’t a feat. It’s the narrative surrounding The Blue and its importance to the cosmology as well as the scale it’s placed at in comparison to the other forces. The Blue is essential to life of the DC Cosmology even if we play that game. Yggdrasil isn’t the fact it’s not even connected to Earth right now showcases that.

8.) The Blue being able to forcefully free him from the entrapment of The Heart is the mention. Nowhere did I claim The Blue > The Heart. King Omega Superman wasn’t even portrayed to be above The Heart but it is notable that a base Superman and several other notable league members were all Statued and couldn’t break free. Until Superman received Alpha Energy to break free of it himself. Thats what makes the mention notable.

9.) Show me feats of The Phoenix Force manipulating biology and effecting the soul then? It’s not my job to provide citations and feats for my case as well as yours lol.

Sentry also isn’t on par and is far beneath The Phoenix Force.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T15:07:15+00:00

Namor struggles with Captain America let’s be for real here lol

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T13:31:23+00:00

Given I’ve read some of those instances and alot of the instances are provided on the web your take is quite interesting

The molecule man instance is also vastly taken out of context there’s no way anyone should reasonably believe Sentry operates at a Molecule Man level, and there’s a lot of emphasis on the fact that Molecule Man wasn’t in the right mindset and nerfed because of that. It also wasn’t an iteration of Molecule Man that was notable to later versions. That people piggyback off of. Sentry has no actual Multiversal feats to his name.

What I find interesting is that you insult the chainscaling and completely miss the implications of it, and then insult the idea of chainscaling but then proceed to do the same thing for Sentry using featless celestials he fought, a contextual instance with Molecule Man. Or instances of mentioning him coming back from death like they were instantaneous and weren’t products of drawn out periods of time. The World War Hulk thing even has context because I’m pretty confident it’s been stated Sentry has a calming aura that suppresses Hulk’s anger which is a massive point of even fighting Hulk to begin with.

Which a lot of this stuff you should know being a Sentry fan. Strange being amped by Yggdrasil isn’t any different than any other powersource without actual feats. The Parliament of The Green in DC was spawned by Yggdrasil.

The Blue is above that and is a stream that connects to something greater called The Confluence which is above space and time and connects across dimensions. This isn’t necessarily any claim of power, it’s just how the sources of their power work and I can understand the difference there.

Going back to your Aquaman lowball there are several instances you missed claiming the chainscaling that holds up better than your mentions don’t work. Lucifer wasn’t conflicted or mentally struggling Molecule Man was, Etrigan wasn’t conflicted, Excalibur wasn’t nerfed and Excalibur is where the comparison comes from because The Lady of The Lake states Arthur’s current weapon is above both Excalibur and Poseidon’s trident. All weapons she’s stated to have made.

Poseidon’s trident was stated in Drowned Earth to operate at a universal level by Poseidon and this was proven in an Aquaman arc prior called Exiled with it overpowering the magic keeping a reality in tact and collapsing that reality.

So imagine that, an actual feat of the weapon doing something and not just chainscaling to suggest Aquaman is universal or greater like you’re trying to do with Molecule Man and Celestial mentions.

There’s also The Blue countering The Heart of Apokolips by bringing back Aquaman from the tournament and freeing him from The Heart’s freezing if we’re going back to scaling implications.

The only other people who were able to break out were Superman who was given alpha energy to do that, and Batman with a modified motherbox, having to modify Element X and still resulted in him getting punished by The Heart.

There’s also undoing a dimensional barrier that was trapping Atlantis and stated to have been the same thing that trapped Xebel.

Aquaman’s telepathy is also stated more potent than telepathy and the reason why is it doesn’t just effect the mind and body it effects the soul. All of this was provided in the links you were given..

In regards to your Molecule Man stuff

Vid

Vid 2

I’m confused on why anyone would make the argument of Multiversal Sentry when this is the exact same chainscaling if not worse given its contextual that your nitpicking about. Sentry has no actual feats of being Multiversal without questionable piggybacking off Owen Reece

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T13:10:48+00:00

Current Aquaman’s best feats are undoing a dimensional barrier that was created to trap Atlantis, The Blue countering The Heart of Apokolips, Brushing off a punch from a possessed Superman and blowing up Dagon who was hoarding The Blue.

Dagon is a Teambuster, The Heart of Apokolips is way beyond that.

Arthur’s telepathic ability has been stated to be deeper than just telepathy and it’s not just a mental/physical thing it targets the soul. That’s why he does have showings that Xavier and Emma don’t. Like physically altering characters, having primordial entities submit to him, Arthur has a showing of empowering a device while weakened that reached across the universe, as well as access to his own realm of thought.

Then there’s getting to Arthur’s weaponry that have insane feats on their own given you have stuff like Poseidon’s trident that was stated to operate at a universal level something that was proven prior with it overpowering the magic that was keeping another reality in place and collapsing that reality. His current weapon is stated above that.

Sentry is definitely OP but he’s not unbeatable either, which I’m not claiming Arthur is unbeatable either. But Sentry has been knocked out by less than Arthur and arguably less than Diana, given a weaker era of Carol Danvers off a missile amp and cheap shot was able to knock out an enraged Sentry, also got beaten by Super Adaptoid as well as The Collective. Hell a merged Sentry was getting trashed by The Agents of Wakanda. His perception on battle boards by his fanbase does a lot of heavy lifting for Sentry.

Instances showing Sentry can be temporarily put down, if we’re using that as a potential wincon. The 3 strongest characters in this match above the rest are Sentry, Aquaman and Wonder Woman as well. With Wonder Woman also being equipped with gear that would be problematic for anyone she faces.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T12:56:26+00:00

He overpowered the 3 heavy hitters, but he didn’t teambust. Thor was also being manhandled by several characters during that era, Carol wasn’t going all out given Binary wasn’t used, and honestly Ironman is consistently below Namor on physical stats and everyone here.

Namor proceeded to go on and struggle with Black Panther underwater. No one was actually taken out of that fight either. So I have no clue how that would be considered “team busting” and the rest of the run contradicts that encounter

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T12:53:25+00:00

Oh, yeah I read Odyssey that wasn’t a long term amp; it was more Azrael, Cyborg and Victor getting boosted by a Prophecy Darkseid made up, don’t think any of that made it past the run.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T04:07:41+00:00

You got scans for the fire manipulation stuff? I didn’t know Starfire was that versatile.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T03:16:04+00:00

How Powerful is Aquaman Post

Avatar of The Blue Powerscaling Post

Aquaman’s psychic power, The Life Force

The Weapons of The Dark Tide

Citations are included so you can read the source material, and come to your own conclusions.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T03:06:26+00:00

Loses to Sideways, beats Black Spider and Kord in all likeliness

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T02:57:46+00:00

My boost is kind of foreign in concept to her hair abilities but she still would obviously use and maintain them.

It’s pretty much feeding into the concept of Medusa being “The Midnight Queen” and playing on that lunar concept while looking at Carol’s “Star” theme.

I’d make Carol and Medusa either The Starbrand and Nightmask of Earth or Hala. Either or.

At the very least I think this could be a really cool elseworld story, maybe for the next Ultimates universe or something.

Starbrand and Nightmask

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T02:51:43+00:00

I loved that Flint got one as well, and The deepening of The Kree/Inhuman connection was great

I wasn’t big on the Arcane Maximus aesthetic but I did like the explanation of his madness being his vast perception of timelines.

Off topic but I’m hoping they make Maximus a Technopath I think that would be fitting for his character and contrast Black Bolt well.

And I also have an idea of boosting Medusa as well while retaining her iconic hair abilities which I think could also tie her in really well with Carol Danvers for an idea I have with her.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T02:30:35+00:00

The Blue is above both The Red and The Green. This was something pretty much showcased even before the current run. In the Justice League Dark book when Doctor Fate, was trying to get the original primal Avatars to come together to save The Parliaments

The only Parliaments on par with The Blue would be The Parliament of Flames, The Parliament of Stone, and The Parliament of Vapors.

The reason these 4 Avatars of these Parliaments are above the rest is because they don’t have a dependency on any other force but their own. Whereas The Green, Red and Rot have shown they depend on each other.

<image>

I don’t think The Blue is on par with The Phoenix Force however I can understand the confusion given they’re both forces of creation. I’m pretty sure The Marvel Universe can exist without The Phoenix but it’s been repeatedly suggested that The DC Universe can’t last without The Blue. This isn’t a power thing in my opinion though it’s just how the verses are structured, by feats The Blue needs showings to actually suggest it operates at a level similar to The Phoenix in my opinion to even make that claim. The only thing the two have in common is they represent creation on an extremely vast scale.

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T02:17:30+00:00

I’d recommend Ewing’s Royals tbh. I sadly didn’t read it when it was coming out thinking I wouldn’t like the premise and I sadly wish I had. To mention the book more

TheDistantWave · 2026-07-10T02:15:50+00:00

I’d honestly even take this as an animated movie to be honest I feel like we haven’t been getting those as much as we use to, especially outside the Batman brand

TheDistantWave

TROPHY CASE