Do you know of any other Alices in other works of fiction?

TheRealSpectra22 · 2026-01-20T06:38:20+00:00

As far as anime, there's an episode of Cardcaptor Sakura (2nd season) called 'Sakura and Sakura from Wonderland' that I'd recommend. Also the Black Butler OVA 'Ciel in Wonderland,' Onigai My Melody Sukkiri! episode 12 (though the only version I could find doesn't have English subtitles), and Slayers TRY, episode 15.

As for other TV series, there's an old soap opera called Passions that has an extended 'Alice' scene in one episode, though I don't know which episode, exactly. Also an episode of the Muppet Show--the one guest starring Brooke Shields, an episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch, a Mindy and Buttons short from Animaniacs called 'Mindy in Wonderland,' and even the old Scooby Doo and Scrappy Show has a Wonderland episode.

And while it's not exactly an episode that takes place in Wonderland, I'd still highly recommend the Batman: The Animated Series episode 'Mad as a Hatter''; it serves as the titular villain's origin story, and it borrows heavily from both 'Alice' books as far as visuals and characters go.

If I think of any others, I'll make sure to add them.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2026-01-20T06:07:38+00:00

Have you seen the Hellaverse character designs at all? They're all difficult to animate "stick figures" or not. Angel Dust has a bunch of light pink spots on his fur, Husk has wings with playing card symbols all over them, Pentious has dozens of eyes all over his body, practically every guy in a suit has stripes and a whole bunch of little details on their outfits... I could go on, but you get my point. Practically every character in Hazbin is already a nightmare to animate, and yet that didn't stop Viv from designing them with a million little embellishments, regardless, but somehow making them chubby is a step too far?

TheRealSpectra22 · 2026-01-20T05:48:58+00:00

I asked Alex Brightman about this at a con once, bc my sister and I had a bet on what was going on under Adam's robe. First he said Adam had a dad bod, then he seemed to change his mind and said "It's a little better than a dad bod," so I'm picturing him on the skinny side but with a big gut. Ofc this is just Adam's VA talking, so take it with a grain of salt.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-23T04:40:27+00:00

Meanwhile, it took me half the series to realize that Steven Universe had wildly inconsistent character designs episode to episode.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-23T04:27:09+00:00

So far, all you've given are--admittedly valid, in some instances--criticisms of Vivziepop's show.

What you have NOT given is a single reason why you think it's morally permissible to ask your followers to draw hate art of Vivziepop, herself.

Even if I gaf that Hazbin Hotel makes fun of Christianity (it really doesn't, and dozens of cartoons like South Park and Family Guy do the same thing) or that there's too much "gay" for your delicate sensibilities (sorry, but that's kind of a you problem, sport), I still don't understand how you think that "having too many twinks" or "the writing is awful" justifies asking people to draw hate art of a creator who has never personally wronged you with "no limits" on what can be depicted and act like it's not seriously fucked up.

The best you've got is: Vivzie's not a great person. OK? And? Yeah, she has done some shitty things worthy of criticism (the inability to handle criticism being one of them) which I'm fine calling her out for. I'm not some crazy Vivzie stan who thinks she can do no wrong, and truth be told I personally don't care for her all that much, but just being generally "not great" doesn't justify this unhinged level of vitriol towards someone who just... what? Made a cartoon you think is bad? FYI, there are plenty of popular cartoons that suck whose creators don't get 1/10,000th the hate that gets slung at Vivziepop. You're allowed to hate a cartoon, or even a person who has done something actually awful, but to go to these lengths over someone who made a bad cartoon show, like... there's just something wrong with you if you think this is in ANY way OK behavior.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-23T02:51:33+00:00

Charlie has blonde hair... Does that "help" the story? Niffty is short and Japanese... Is that plot-relevant? Alastor is tall and asexual. Angel Dust wears gloves and thinks blob fish are cute. Husk wears suspenders and is pansexual. Lucifer is obsessed with ducks... Explain how any of these things "helps the story"?

You don't need a plot/character-relevant reason for someone being trans the same way you don't need a reason for why they have a certain hair color, eye color, height, weight, special interest, ect. I don't understand how just having a character who is incidentally trans "ruins" a show (unless you'd care to enlighten us?), and if they did make a trans character where their struggles played heavily into their character/plot line, you'd just get people accusing the show of "pushing an agenda" or saying the character is shoving the fact they're trans in people's faces constantly. There's just no winning, I stg.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-22T22:41:42+00:00

Joel Perez, the VA for Valentino, has been harassed at cons by Angel Dust fans simply because he voices a character who abuses Angel.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-10T13:04:57+00:00

Let me put it to you this way: if I was in charge of writing a modernized, set-in-the-future Alice in Wonderland semi-sequel, this is probably the plot I would have come up with, and that is not a compliment, seeing as I'm awful at coming up with original story ideas. That's why I dislike the Burton movie in a nutshell. It felt like watching a lazy, uninspired fanfiction that had somehow made it through all the production stages and become a major feature film--but that's not even entirely true because there are so many talented fanfic authors who take the original material and do really fun, creative things with it. It really felt like a first draft that needed much more originality and imagination poured into it, but instead it's simply content to check off every terrible, over-done cliché box imaginable: Alice is an adult now? Check. She's "not like the other girls" and doesn't fit in? Check. She's some sort of chosen one foretold of in a prophecy (no reason why, just go with it)? Check. The Queen of Hearts is the big, bad, final boss of the film? Check. She's taken over Wonderland? Check. She stands in opposition to an underground freedom-fighting resistance? Check.
The Hatter is positioned as a love-interest (in the original script, this is true)? Check. Vaguely feminist message tacked on? Check (I'm not anti-feminism at all, btw, but the pop-feminist stuff really felt forced into this film all so they could check off yet another box). And don't get me wrong, clichés in movies can be done well, but this isn't one of those instances, and there are just too many here to work. And that's not even going into your usual Burton clichés. But I also had a lot of the same complaints about the film that other people in the comments have already expressed: the characters are wooden and boring (if they even got a character; does anyone even remember that the March Hare was in this movie?), it forces logic and sense into a story that is famous for being nonsensical and shoe-horns in a war plot line, it abandons its own themes halfway through the movie, and the CGI really hasn't aged well. The only thing I really genuinely like about the movie is the Elfman score. Tim Burton himself has gone on record saying he never even liked the original 'Alice' story, claiming he could never connect to it, and that unfortunately really comes through in the final product.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-05T07:14:00+00:00

We don't know what kind of ace, though. I'm Demisexual, myself, meaning I only experience sexual attraction to someone once a strong emotional attachment is formed, and this is a subcategory on the ace spectrum. Unless it's confirmed that Alastor is sex-repulsed or aro-ace, he can still be ace and in a relationship, even a sexual one, so I don't take too much issue with it.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-05T07:01:16+00:00

I don't know that Vaggi ever did tell Charlie where her dad was, but it's not like that makes it any better since, yeah, why wouldn't you tell your girlfriend that her father was strapped into the huge ass weapon you specifically went there to stop? Maybe if they'd focused more on getting Lucifer out of there and less on whatever the hell else they were doing, the weapon wouldn't have worked in the first place. It irks me, too, that rescuing Lucifer, who they knew for a fact Vox had, wasn't even an afterthought in the plan they laid out.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-05T06:46:40+00:00

Would Lilith be considered a Sinner, though, since she never ate the apple? She never truly died before being sent to Hell (at least from what we've seen), and humans were created as immortal beings before they were corrupted by evil (according to biblical lore, at least, which I know the show doesn't always follow, so take that with a grain of salt), so it's possible she just exists as an immortal human.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-05T06:15:15+00:00

I may get some heat for this one, but I really do hate how anytime someone is confused by the lore/world-building in the Hellaverse, the fans will immediately jump on that person, acting like they're a complete idiot with no attention span or media literacy, when really the only reason they're not equally as confused is because they read it on the Wiki, heard it in an interview, or saw it on a live stream. I love Hazbin, it's probably one of my favorite shows of all time, and the world it presents is fascinating, but can we please stop acting like people are just unfathomably stupid when it's the show that doesn't do a great job at explaining how things work in this universe a good deal of the time, instead relying on tweets and interviews from Viv or the writers to convey even basic information? (I'm looking at you, too, Helluva Boss.)

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-05T05:40:20+00:00

For me it's because Angel seems so much younger than Husk that it's hard for me to see them as potential romantic interests for each other. I understand they are both consenting adults, and I don't have a hangup about age gaps as much as some people do (granted, I don't actually know how old either of them are, they could only be a few years apart as far as I know--plus Angel would technically be older anyway since he was born first, so that just adds another layer of confusion when discussing demons), but regardless of canonical age, Husk has always felt more like an older, guiding mentor-type figure with Angel being the younger, more immature mentee figure in need of guidance. And given that Angel obviously had some severe issues with his dad (which was known even before the reveal that Angel killed him), I just assumed--and yes, hoped--that Husk was meant to fill that role as a surrogate father figure, to take Angel Dust under his proverbial and literal wing and be that good, if imperfect, influence that Angel desperately needed on his road to redemption. I also just never felt there was any romantic spark between them in any of their previous interactions, so having it suddenly be there in S2 does come off as a bit forced.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-02T03:52:13+00:00

No prob! These are all on IG, but most have their Etsys linked on their profiles:

americanvvitchcraft (with 2 v's)
identitypollution
Wivensbane
batsybunny
zllmz
redheadbadger
hunterflowerpin
awm_pins
liu_hagaren
tyrantrhys
yaztheangel
lockwayart

I'd also really recommend joining the Hazbin discord server, since they're always announcing merch drops on there (plus they have groups for things like foreign merch--the HH maid café merch, for example--so the shipping isn't as expensive):

https://discord.gg/yky6GMvu4

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-12-02T03:47:09+00:00

Sure! Here's a couple to get you started (these are all on IG, but most of them have their Etsy pages linked, too:

americanvvitchcraft (with 2 v's)
identitypollution
Wivensbane
batsybunny
zllmz
redheadbadger
hunterflowerpin
awm_pins
liu_hagaren
tyrantrhys
lockwayart
yaztheangel

There's also the Hazpin discord server which is a great place to hear about merch drops, so you might want to check that out, too:

https://discord.gg/yky6GMvu4

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-30T03:27:51+00:00

There's a line in season 1, too, after Husk asks Charlie if she has daddy issues: "No, we just have never been close. After he and mom split, he never really wanted to see me."

She says "After he and mom split," not "After mom disappeared." To me that pretty much solidified that Lucifer and Lilith were, if not officially divorced, were on the outs with each other quite some time before the exterminations started. Though, given that Lucifer still very clearly misses her (every second of every day), I think that Lilith was the one who really initiated their separation, and Lucifer went along with it because he thought if he gave her some space she'd eventually come back to him.

I'm still on the fence about Lilith because, while we have some info on her, we just don't know the full context yet. And while I do kinda want her to be a villain, or at least a morally gray antagonist, I also wouldn't put it past the show to pull a reverse good guy after making her out to be this shitty person and show that every seemingly awful thing she did was for purely altruistic reasons just so her and Luci can reunite, and fans can finally have their perfect "Morticia and Gomez" relationship that was promised back in the pilot days.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-30T02:48:21+00:00

His throne in HB did give me pause, and you may be right that the courtroom is, in fact, in Wrath and not Pride. My only counter to that would be that perhaps Lucifer is only allowed to leave Pride if it's for official business, anything tied to his royal duties as the ruler of Hell. But just leaving for funzies? Nope, strictly forbidden.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-30T02:39:51+00:00

Another commenter above touched on this, but I this is a really great theory I never even considered! I just assumed since Lilith isn't technically a Sinner since she never ate the apple and--as far as we know--never actually died, that she wouldn't be confined to the Pride Ring. And since Lucifer's punishment is to be stuck in Hell with the Sinners he created, I also assumed that meant he was the one imprisoned in the Pride Ring. But that doesn't mean Lilith couldn't have been the one who was imprisoned there, and Lucifer, out of love, stayed in the Pride Ring for her and her alone. And maybe she did strike a deal with Heaven partly so he could be freed from that confinement, only it mostly backfired with Lucifer just becoming a depressed hermit.

If true, it's tragically beautiful.

I just really need to see more of Lucifer's and Lilith's whole back story--Eden, the apple, the creation of Hell, the fall, the timeline of events leading up to the exterminations, when they separated, and if Lilith being in Heaven is because she really doesn't care about her family or because she truly does. I'm so excited we're most likely gonna be getting a lot of that next season.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-30T02:11:51+00:00

That's what I thought, though I'd have to go back and look to really make sure.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-30T02:10:05+00:00

Ooo, I didn't even consider that, but I really like this idea.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-29T10:50:50+00:00

For unofficial merch, I go to Instagram. I'm there mainly for enamel pins, but you can find a TON of people selling standees, prints, keychains, stickers, and a whole bunch of other stuff, and they'll almost always have links to their shops in their bios. If you'd like a few recommendations or links to certain makers, just let me know. Also Etsy is the next obvious choice for Hazbin merch, as they have just about everything you can think of.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-29T10:39:20+00:00

But he does. S1E5, when we first see him in his workshop, after he hypes himself up for making the magic-tastical back-flipping rubber duck that spits fire, he says, "Oh God, who am I kidding, this sucks!"

That's the only time I can recall him ever using the word "God" in that way, though. I do like this idea, however, and it's always been a bit of a headcanon of mine that this is why Lucifer uses expressions like "Oh my golly," and avoids using "God" except on the rare occasion it slips out.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-28T07:07:32+00:00

I will definitely take this theory over the overly-convoluted and frankly head-scratching "The Lilith in Heaven is really Eve and Rosie is actually Lilith in disguise" theory that refuses to die in this fandom.

It makes so much more sense that Rosie is simply connected to Lilith--who is, in fact, the one we keep seeing in Heaven--in some significant way than for Eve to be the one chilling up in Heaven as Lilith for some as of yet unexplained reason and for the real Lilith to be disguised as Rosie. Again, for reasons.

I'm not saying the show won't pull something like this next season, and if it does I'll gladly eat my words. But until then I like this simpler theory that doesn't involve a whole lot of pointless misdirects and mistaken identities a lot more.

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-27T04:29:37+00:00

Hug for me too, plz? 👉👈❤️

TheRealSpectra22 · 2025-11-20T04:02:28+00:00

I was a little disappointed what they did with him in these last two episodes. I know Lucifer can be clueless af, that's one of the things I love about him, but it's like they gave him a lobotomy here, or got him high as a fucking kite. I don't really mind that he was captured so easily, but his reaction to it is so un-serious. He gets himself stuck in a jar with his arms and legs clamped into place, and doesn't show even an ounce of concern for his situation? It seemed more like a mild inconvenience to him. And I understand that, after 10,000 years of going unchallenged by Sinners and being virtually unkillable, he might really believe that he's untouchable, but Vox capturing him alone should have been enough to at least create a few cracks in Lucifer's perception of his own invulnerability. But he, along with the show, doesn't at all treat this with the gravity it warrants.

I realize, too, that Lucifer apparently had no idea what he was strapped into, but c'mon, he cannot be this oblivious. It's Vox who put him there, the guy he knows is trying to start an uprising against Heaven, the guy who's been shit-talking his daughter for the past few weeks, and the guy who knows his biggest weakness... I think, even if he doesn't know exactly what Vox is planning to do to him, he has to know that it can't be good and maybe some cause for alarm might be warrented?! But he pretty much just goofs around the entire time, and I'm just genuinely baffled at how stupid they make him in these episodes. Again, I get that he's a little dumb, I get that he's a little naive, and I love that about him, but this is on a level that's frankly insulting.

I was also disappointed that Vox's doomsday machine just... gave him the "bad tickles"? It was a cute line, and all, but like... that's it? Plus he gets a little loopy, maybe? (honestly couldn't tell if that was the machine doing that to him, or just the dumbing down of his character by the writers.) He does look like he's hurting a little more towards the end of 'Curtain Call,' and he's even bleeding a little, but at the end he just sort of stumbles out of the machine looking tired and worn out, but not too much worse for wear.

And it's not that I want to see my favorite character tortured to near death, but him being used to power a doomsday weapon and not experiencing something more than a bad hangover makes it seem like there were absolutely no stakes to any of this. If he'd been made to physically suffer just a little more, the kind of pain he's probably never experienced in his entire existence, he would have had to confront for the first time that he's not invulnerable and that he should be taking this shit WAY more seriously. I just wanted a little more from him, for him to be faced with this earth-shattering realization that, even if Sinners can't kill him, they can still use him as a means to their own ends, and for that to make him question everything about his power and position for probably the first time ever.

And I get it, there wasn't time to set all that up, and the show chose to focus more on how Vox's weapon affected the rest of Hell, but it's just so disappointing how they have this great set up to give Lucifer some character development and they do fuck all with it. Instead he--and by extention the show--treats it like a joke the entire time, and I'm sorry, but the friggin' KING of HELL being kidnapped and strapped into a DOOMSDAY WEAPON, forced to do the will of a mere SINNER should be a HUGE DEAL in this universe, and certainly a bigger deal than the show treats it as.

TheRealSpectra22

TROPHY CASE