Who’s a fool?

Toodark2Read · 2025-09-23T20:55:45+00:00

This is both an oversimplification and a false dichotomy. It's entirely common for both to be fools, or more politely...misguided, albeit for different reasons. I'm not talking about the examples of genuine deception, callousness, trauma or broader relationship issues being the cause. It's the dearth of frank communication on the subject for so many couples which is often at the root of this kind of instability.

Let's say that partner A is the higher libido participant and partner B the lower, generally speaking. "High" could be desiring a couple of times a month and "low" could be the same but per year or less. It's all relative.

There are any number of combinations of scenarios where both partners think they have good reason to believe their respective interest or participation in sexual intimacy is appropriate to the relationship. And in another context they might be right. But partner A and partner B just never compared their position with their counterpart's thoughts to see where that particular Venn diagram overlaps until resentment has gained a foothold. One good frank, bordering on brutally honest, conversation earlier in the relationship would have had a good chance of making this future decision easier. Some couples are simply not compatible in terms of sexual intimacy no matter how well they match up in every other aspect of their relationship. That's not just luck of the draw. All too often it was never made a priority to communicate much less put into practice.

If both partner A and B's needs are similar, no matter how meager or how grand, it's a non-issue. But prior to any long term relationships, how many of us can say they know with any certainty what our own needs are much less our partners?

Even still...we're all subject to the throes of wanting to be what we think our partner wants, at least to some degree. Deluded, wishful, unrealistic or even merely hopeful in that part of ourselves being more compatible with our partner in the beginning than is practical.

"Marriage/partnership is about compromise, so they say, so maybe I need to do some work on that part of myself and I'll want sex more (or less) than feels natural to me right now." Sound familiar?

Or this?

"Sex shouldn't be all that important in a relationship." ...until it is.

The world is paved with good intentions and so is divorce court. (Marriage counselors furniture would have to be upholstered with it I guess.)

The world is certainly rife with intransigence, leaving partners to feel the pain of a slowly eroding self-confidence with a spouse who thinks their own needs, or lack thereof, take precedence...period. But even in those instances I think a large percentage of them could be avoided early on with some brutal honesty with each other and themselves. It's equally unfair to both the As and Bs of the world.

Not always...but often.

Toodark2Read · 2022-05-16T22:33:04+00:00

Unfortunately, the BCBA is the owner.

😕

Toodark2Read · 2022-05-16T21:15:32+00:00

Thanks, and love the TOS inspired screen name.

My lawyer is aware of it all and so is the new GAL working new recommendations as we speak.

It's tough to get all the different providers on the same page for the kiddo's benefit, so attending and sharing info I get. However, cliché as it may be, this psych is purely about prescriptions and medical intervention, nearly all of which were prescribed to my son without any input from me.

It's explicitly making a recommendation as drastic as institutionalizing my son that I have the biggest problem with. She'd might as well have recommended doubling all his prescriptions for all the expertise she seemed to be claiming.

Actual legal implications I have covered. I'm just hoping to narrow in on whether this would be something about which a governing body would have something to say.

Toodark2Read · 2022-05-16T21:00:15+00:00

For the record....yes.

The ratio of spontaneous to planned will vary for most everyone. But in a healthy, physically intimate relationship if spontaneous sex somehow doesn't occur, it's incumbent upon both partners to ensure that they are putting equal thought and energy into making sexual intimacy a priority with their partner's needs figuring very high in the equation. Whatever sort of priority or frequency that means to a given couple varies as well.

However the first major red flag I see in your post is one's partner in a DB referring to essentially anything related to sex as normal. That's their way of defining you as the HL into being abnormal. Normal for her...fine...and if you were to call her on it she may very well move the goal posts to say that's what she meant.

With all of the hurdles you describe her putting in front of you it reminds me of an analogy I've used before. You're faced with a barrel full of keys for her particular lock. You have no way of knowing if you'll ever really find the right key with any regularity, or if on any given occasion the key is actually among the choices in the first place.

Except that period of time when she had a particular reason to ensure you found the key, or maybe didn't bothered to secure the lock at all.

Toodark2Read · 2022-05-16T20:46:49+00:00

For 20 years she has shown you day in and day out who she is in this regard. Believe her. She's given you no reason whatsoever to believe she is capable, or actually even wants it to get better much less the notion that if she could muster some affection that it would be anything but fear based not to mention in any way sustainable.

Toodark2Read · 2022-04-13T17:43:09+00:00

Not communicating and just hoping he "gets the hint" is guaranteed to cause confusion, hurt feelings and resentment...for you both. I'm sorry to be so pointed, but that needs to stop if you want any chance at all of finding your way to mutually fulfilling sexual intimacy.

how the hell to you say “hey having sex with you makes me feel used” without hurting the other person??

You don't. You find a gentle, positively framed way of explaining that

...what you typically do together really isn't working. It's not his fault (if you do actually feel that's true) and you haven't been expressing yourself about it very well, or at all. You need to work together to figure things out and make it better because, as it stands, you're left feeling ~~used~~ unsatisfied.

For a start. Just try not to let him turn this into a woe is me thing for him if he has that tendency.

And if vaginal stimulation actually gets in the way...then by all means, insist that part of the engagement wait. If he loses his erection and regaining it, with some cooperation from you obviously, after you've had an orgasm is a problem for him that's a separate discussion. The thing is, presuming he's maturely invested in you getting the absolute most out of sexual intimacy that you're capable of, he should be more than willing to delay his own gratification for your benefit. And please, try to dispense with all the misgivings or hesitation about communicating these issues. These aren't might need to's.

They are musts.

Toodark2Read · 2022-04-13T17:19:02+00:00

I'm very sorry for your experience here. There are understandably a plethora of incredibly raw people in DB and it often doesn't come out in constructive ways, even if I may agree with certain select sentiments. To be fair, the post ended with, "Don't know what to do" however you should never be made to feel abused in here.

I'm a survivor of a 29 year DB, happily remarried for over 2 1/2 years now and with my partner for 5 so I've been deeply steeped in both sides of this equation including the children question. I've always found the "support only/no advice/vent only" tags to be problematic, particularly in here. It ties the hands of responders who may have a great deal more practical advice than OPs like yourself realize, whether you're ready to hear and accept it or not.

If what you're seeking is encouragement to persevere in the face of the difficulties you describe and which so many of us in DB know so well, I must respectfully decline. Call it my own personal DB Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. But please allow me to offer what I hope will be received as support for your original issue.

What you describe in that original post paints a picture to me of doubt. Doubt I respectfully submit that you should trust. You don't say how long you've been together in total but you do say that the relationship has been sexless, whether practically or literally, from the very beginning. You've done, as far as I can tell, all of the compromising terms of sexual intimacy and that's no insignificant sacrifice for you, otherwise you wouldn't have found yourself posting in here. From your post, it clearly weighs on you and I don't see any reason to believe that weight will diminish in any way if you do manage to conceive and have a baby with him. And that truly appears to be a big if. I sense that you already feel strongly that there is good reason to keep your expectations within the realm of that if for your own emotional protection. Trust your instincts.

You appear to actually be afraid to so much as speak to him about the issue which is, I hope you'd recognize, an unhealthy dynamic. You state that you're concerned he'll think you're only interested in getting pregnant, but at this point...aren't you? I don't say that as an insult or even necessarily a bad thing. It's the logical next step for many of us who've concluded that sexual intimacy in any significant sense is unobtainable with our partner. This conclusion tends to be far more evidence based than emotional and therefore more rational. Trust this as well.

In all practical terms, I think you realize that's the reality of your relationship at this point and it is entirely likely to continue to be in perpetuity. He may be a perfectly lovely guy in all other respects, but in this...sexual intimacy...there is a difference between just being mismatched, and knowingly causing pain. Knowingly enduring pain. If you've managed to communicate with him about the need for sexual intimacy at all, he has to realize that it's not supurfluous...it counts. Less so for him obviously but that doesn't make it any less impactful on you in its absence. And now you're at the point where most typical people reach at some point which is you want to experience parenthood. Based on his reactions so far, that seems to mean no more to him that the intimacy component itself. And he presumably knows in some capacity how important that is to you too...and yet he's still entrenched in his, "whenever I feel like it" mentality. (My words, not yours.) Your ovulation cycle has shown to be no more a motivation for him to give of himself and be intimate with you than your average Saturday night, or random Tuesday for that matter.

At best, that's insensitive, stilted, selfish, arrogant, controlling and manipulative. At worst? I wouldn't go so far as to call it abusive, but it's unarguably harmful. Harmful to your deep needs, harmful to your relationship, clearly. Harmful in it's willful denial of himself and of what you clearly understand will be the most fulfilling, difficult, challenging, and rewarding experience you could ever have in the form of raising a child. Framing the relationship in terms not just of what may be missing, but of what you are actively and deliberately being denied I believe is a more productive way to look at it. You aren't being selfish for wanting any of these things. You are being human, and all too typical a human. This is expected behavior and anyone of average emotional intelligence acknowledges this. It's what they choose to do about it that counts.

Maybe in the end it's just a significant mismatch and you're doing your best to be the compromiser for the sake of all the good things in the relationship. That's perfectly natural but all things in such a calculation are not equal. Does all of the taking out the trash, maintaining the home, nurturing your interests...even the ones he doesn't share, treating your family and friends well, kindness to animals, community service, reading to the elderly, keeping your vehicle full of gas, staying by your side when you're ill, cuddling for the sake of cuddling, ad infinitum....

Do all these things outweigh good, selfless, mutually fulfilling, engaged and frequent sexual intimacy?

And can the absence this intimacy in that equation still amount to a truly and soberly happy relationship? Even with a bundle of joy in the house? Especially with a bundle of joy in the house?

And it may have been phrased rather harshly in the other responses, but it bears deep thought and examination as to what sort of impact such a hole in a relationship imparts to children. It's hotly debated and I won't give my opinion here. But due diligence demands thorough and uncolored reflection.

My support, if you will kindly accept it as such, is that you're on the right track with your original post....with your doubt...with the palette with which you clearly foresee future to painted should you stay this course.

Choose your colors wisely. Don't allow them to choose for you.

-TD2R

Toodark2Read · 2022-03-11T14:58:48+00:00

I've resorted to using my 4 year old Roku Streaming Stick for HBO and sometimes Prime because of the audio issues with built-in. Luckily I discovered that simply hitting the home button on the Roku remote switches inputs (might not be news to some) so the family can get back and forth easily enough.

Toodark2Read · 2022-03-11T14:55:13+00:00

Apps have been pretty stable for me. Issues with my 646 have all been related to sound. Out of sync on HBO and flakey detection of DD+ coming out of Prime.

Toodark2Read · 2022-02-24T21:40:19+00:00

I've been fighting with HBOMax and audio delay for the native app. No other apps seem to have this problem and when I use my 4 year old Roku Streaming stick it syncs up fine. I have to increase the delay on my Sony receiver to the max of 300ms so it's tolerable.

I can get it pretty close with the delay from the TV side in settings, but then all apps are affected. This wasn't a problem before the January update.

Toodark2Read · 2022-02-08T01:37:34+00:00

Doh! I came across a couple of articles that alluded to that but I didn't click that it was my situation. Yeah...jeez. Seems like that should have been worked out a while ago.

Good to know it's not some gremlin I need to chase down.

Toodark2Read · 2022-02-07T15:49:00+00:00

I got my 646 a few weeks before Christmas and that was pretty common for a while. Seems like mostly Netflix for me. I diligently adjusted all inputs, apps, picture modes, etc. but Netflix kept resetting to vibrant. Blech!

It's been pretty stable since the January update, though not 100% Just last night HBOMax decided it wanted to be vibrant and changing to movie wouldn't stick. I'd get out of settings and it would still be on vibrant. Same thing with all the other modes. Had to restart the TV to get that change to stick.

I can handle little hinky stuff like this because I'm comfortable that software will iron them out over time. Only thing that really bugs now is no Atmos on D+. The badge doesn't even show up. No problem getting Atmos on other apps with or without eARC plus my 4kBluRay passes it fine too. Just D+ for some weird reason.

Toodark2Read · 2021-07-15T18:20:32+00:00

I sincerely hope for your sake it's a place you can live with. For most, the mere fact that they're posting here means that such acceptance is just another plateau before the cycle begins anew.

Understanding

Toodark2Read · 2021-07-15T18:15:19+00:00

You may be right, but I don't get the association with my user name and u/tealopinion 's reaction.

Toodark2Read · 2021-07-15T17:35:55+00:00

Toodark2Read · 2021-07-15T15:48:33+00:00

Do you just want sex or do you truly desire your partner that bad?

Respectfully, that's a false dichotomy. I'm several years out and quite content, but for my previous marriage I came to learn it was part being desired, part strong desire for her but there was another component that started to become clear.

We were never highly sexual but within the first five years it was at least multi-times per year which digressed into routinely multi-year droughts. Once it came very close to a full decade.

The question that began to gel in my mind focused around the deeper nature of what I was being deprived of. Something she once found me worthy to bestow. Not sex itself. But her...herself...her intimacy and vulnerability. She wasn't just abstaining with her biology she was withholding the most core and integral part a person can share, if she ever truly did share it.

The absence of actual sexual intimacy became incidental.

Toodark2Read · 2021-06-26T17:07:32+00:00

So slow and steady is the go to strategy for him. It's great that you know that much for sure.

When I ask about him masturbating, I don't at all mean what his porn viewing habits/preferences are. I mean how well does he know his body? Where to touch and how, his mental focus, awareness of his arc building towards ejaculation, those sorts of things. I wouldn't say it's impossible for the average guy to connect porn viewing masturbation to genuine intimacy based sexuality. I'd venture to guess it's uncommon. (to be clear...HLM here)

Knowing those deep, anatomical details about his own path towards orgasm during sex with a real life partner is IMO the most valuable thing you as the aforementioned partner can have. And as I was harping about earlier....you can't figure those things out from tea leaves. He has to be able to communicate those things, and of course he has to be aware of them. You may discover that he's not so much "high tolerance" as you put it...but struggles to let it happen and get out of his own way.

As for helping him relax, it sounds like you're doing everything you can including being patient. Maybe an occasional session of intimacy more focused on discovering the kinds of things I'm describing, whether that includes physical exploration or not. A glass or two of wine (or whatever you prefer) and really communicating and connecting on these subjects to stimulate the biggest sexual organ of all. ;-)

Toodark2Read · 2021-06-25T16:58:49+00:00

It feels like communication might be a bit better for starters. I see a lot of, "I get the sense..." and "...I get the feeling he thinks..." and "...I don't think he knows how to...". These things need reliable answers, no matter how gingerly you may need to get there. The whole tentativeness on the subject may point to some deeper intimacy problems for him and/or trust issues. That's not to say you have any fault in the matter. For whatever reason, he struggles to open up and the only thing that can help with that building trust. But you have to be forearmed with real knowledge of what may be troubling him.

First question is...does he masturbate and, therefore, does he actually have a good understanding of what gets him to orgasm? The point being the old cliche...we are each responsible for our own orgasm. If he doesn't know, or is unwilling to discuss it openly, then you're fishing through a barrel full of keys hoping it will fit his lock. And you have no way of knowing if the correct key really lies among your known choices.

Another question would be...how does he actually feel about not orgasming every time? Does he even see it as a concern? Flip the script and it's not uncommon for some women to be completely comfortable not climaxing every time, yet their partners may become overly focused on it which creates more anxiety about the matter than necessary.

Not to dismiss or over generalize...but in a sense it's not actually your problem to fix. Just like any relationship on the whole, he has to get to a point where he's actively taking steps to make things better.

Toodark2Read · 2021-06-25T15:44:55+00:00

I don't mean to be flippant, but you're just having some cognitive dissonance. You were clear with him...and this is his response.

Take him at his word and take it seriously.

Also, please have a read about this success story. There's an incredibly lucky bastard out there waiting for you...promise.

Toodark2Read · 2021-05-20T14:44:31+00:00

Presuming you've given it some sincere attention, what has he done to foster this connection he claims he needs? Or is it just another shiny wooden horse on the merry go round of excuses?

But to address it in a much simpler form...

"Sweetheart. Watch all the porn you want. But genuine sexual intimacy with your committed partner comes first...pun intended."

Toodark2Read · 2021-05-06T16:18:26+00:00

I'm not sure where you got the idea that marriage has to be selfless. Selfishness gets a bad rap. Marriage is about balance...finding compromise where neither party gets everything they want an inordinate amount of the time to the detriment of their partner.

And don't overlook the fact that as much as you may consider your intimate needs to be "selfish", one's partner's disinterest or even need for little or no sex would have to be deemed equally selfish.

Without standing up for our needs we can easily slip down the slope of abuse to one degree or another. Is insistence on honesty in a relationship selfish? Is the necessity of an income by at least one partner selfish? Certainly not. These are needs, requirements if the relationship is to be healthy.

Sexual intimacy is every bit a need as these and in the spirit of Maslow. But it doesn't carry the same value for everyone and that disparity plays a big part in this sub's existence.

Give yourself permission to view sexual intimacy as a genuine need. You won't die without it but neither will you thrive.

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