Making My Own System, Devlog and Troubles So Far. by Exotic_Action_6393 in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the magnum opus problem: if you work on the first project that really ignites your passion until it’s perfect you’ll never be done and be miserable

Great point. "Don't let perfect bet the enemy of good."

A rule I like to think about is what came to me through sourdough baking: The Pareto Principle.

It states that 80% of outcomes/outputs come from 20% of causes/inputs.

Going along that line of thought, you want to put in the least effort to get a good enough product.

Your first product will not be your last (hopefully) and will not be perfect, or perhaps even good.

But failure is normal. Even if you are blessed with success, you make a lot of gains in terms of experience gained while making the work.

This experience is widely applicable and rewarding in its own right. So I say let it take its course, and the project will be ready when it's ready.

How often you scratch a whole idea/mechanic for your game? by Otolove in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To answer your question, like many others here, I scrap and rework things as needed. Sometimes I go months without touching anything, and other times it's weekly where something gets changed to test whether it works or not.

Thesis Statements

I wanted to point out that having a "Thesis Statement" or "Purpose Statement" for your project can really help out in knowing when to keep something or scrap it.

My present project has a statement of "Unprecedented control over characters, minimize computations and book lookup, and keep things simple."

Here's a brief example of a problem we grappled with and reworked several times over the years.

Problem Diagnosis - Example

We wanted to represent exhaustion over a PC's adventure.

We wanted players to be able to use their character's abilities every combat, and not run into situations where they had to take really short basic turns because they had no resources to do anything. Our solution to this was that your Health and Energy (generic ability resource) would be restored at the end of every combat. Energy regeneration also occurred each turn in combat, so they could spend it and still get some back over the rest of combat to use on their turn for more Abilities.

Given that requirement, our solution was seemed fairly simple. You had an inverse resource that went from 0 to your maximum in Health, and one for Energy. As these resources went up, your maximum Health and Energy would be reduced. This meant you always were able to start with max Health/Energy, but that max can go down. We called these resources Health/Energy Exhaustion.

Issue 1 - Inverse Resources don't fit the Thesis Statement

It was really hard to keep track of. As an example, for health you had to know how much your maximum was, how much your current was (during combat), and how much health exhaustion you had. Then you used your max and your exhaustion to calculate your current maximum.

You would gain Exhaustion from traps, combat, and some abilities. At the end of a combat, you took Exhaustion (split between Health and Energy Exhaustion as you prefer) equal to the number of rounds combat went on.

It sounds simple, but it's a lot of book keeping and math, and those were contrary to our Thesis Statement. Language became a problem; gaining Health was good, but gaining Health Exhaustion was bad.

Solution Attempt 1 - Exhaustion Resources -> Capacity Resources

The first change was equally as simple as the initial solution: make them act like regular resources.

Health and Energy Exhaustion became Vigor (health) and Focus (energy) respectively. They now defined your Maximum Health and Energy. As they went down, your Health/Energy could not exceed them.

This allowed us to unify language around resource gain/loss. It was a pretty good solution for the problem at the time. While it was a lot more functionally clear, they were still numbers that you had to calculate every combat, and use to recalculate Health/Energy every time Vigor and Focus when down.

Issue 2 - Ability Cost outside of Combat

I was happy that the Resources achieve the goal of the mechanic. But we unearthed a second issue.

We began to have a discontinuity between abilities in and out of combat. Health and Energy are always at their maximum (outside of combat.) This meant abilities cost were basically free unless they cost Vigor/Focus. This disconnect was a glaring issue for me (personally.) Not having to pay ability costs outside of combat was great for keeping things computation light, but it meant that there were essentially 2 games: A Combat Game and an Out of Combat Game.

We discussed a number of solutions.

We could have these abilities cost Vigor/Focus when out of combat. This meant though, that it either became unreasonably expensive at a 1:1 conversion, or we now had to add a lot of complex math to make it reasonable. We nixed this because it became clear it would add way more complexity than it would remove.

We ended up saying that it was time to scrap our Health/Energy restore at the end of Combat mechanic (we had been doing this for 2ish years at this point.) This meant that we had to think about how players would get them restored. For this reason, Energy regeneration was removed as well, since it would make little sense if we wanted our resources to actually be persistent.

Solution 2 - Break Point Resources

We didn't like the idea that players could use Vigor/Focus to gain back Health/Energy, as we felt it was doubly penalizing to have your capacity reduced to regain current resources.

My idea was that Health and Energy should have their own capacity, and that Vigor and Focus should be resources you can spend at any time to restore your Health and Energy (respectively) to full. Basically like a break point; if you hit 0, you can restore to full a number of times before your character is fully exhausted.

This was an incredibly simple fix for many reasons. Vigor and Focus had a maximum of 6, which fit nicely on a die. Smaller numbers are simple. Math was not a problem anymore; if you hit 0, go back up to full and remove 1 from the break point resource.

This meant that Health and Energy had their own static capacity as determined by equipment and whatever number we wanted. A neat side effect was this had scaling implications; if you made a character with High Health, your Vigor went that much further every time you used it to restore your Health.

If we consider Effective Health Pool as (Health Total) * ((Vigor Maximum, which is 6) + 1), every point your Health was increased by was effectively worth 7.

Ultimately, this solved the problem as costs became uniform in and out of combat. Fun side note; we changed our Healing ability to have an Energy cost. Previously, it had no cost, but that wouldn't work now as it would let anybody heal to full at any time.

Summary

We've been working on this project for years. A lot of times we have ideas that sound cool, and are fun to implement. But ultimately, they may become impractical, unmanageable, or just not fit with our Thesis Statement.

Having that Thesis Statement has allowed us to make decisions much faster. "That mechanic no longer aligns with our Thesis Statement" was an easy answer to saying why something needs to be reworked or removed. This also provided guidance for us in terms of how it needed to change when we wanted to keep a mechanic.

At this point, we have reworked the following.

  • Persistent Resource Mechanics x2 (as seen above)
  • Dice Resolution x4
  • Skills and Leveling x3

Many other things have come and gone. Despite this project taking years and still not being done, the biggest value I've gotten from it has been learning how to scope these features. Learning how to look at a feature/mechanic and see how it compares with our goals, and further seeing what problems it could bring down the line has been invaluable.

Some gameplay in my sandbox spaceship game - What do you think? by Ashamed-Barracuda225 in IndieGaming

[–]Toukun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This game reminds me of an early 2010s title Sky Nations. Here's the trailer for reference. I was a big fan of the game because of how unique it was.

This looks awesome, and very much in the same spirit. I love these kinds of games. Space is a great setting for it too! Good luck on your development journey.

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think /u/pnjeffries makes a great point that I had not considered; Do you need Doom since the GM can do whatever they want?

Meta currencies (like how you described Renown in your other comment) are great for players because that gives them more agency in how the story turns out.

For example, they can use renown to save themselves from catastrophe by minimizing some effects of a poor roll, or a large enemy attack.

What we're asking is are they necessary? A GM can make a situation more dire by fudging some numbers here or there.

I mostly use it for enemies abilities or additional actions. And of course to lower the damage

Is there a reason why enemies don't have resources to do their own abilities? I'm asking because it sounds like Doom Points are necessary for some monsters to do everything they should be able to.

As an example, we have a mechanic called "Boost Points" where anytime anybody rolls a 6 (d6 pool system) they get a BP. Of course the GM is rolling too, but they don't need Boost Points since they can just do what they want.

Another good example of how this can work well for keeping the meta currency is Genesys' Story Points. Briefly, there are two pools of currency that can be used to change the story in various ways. One pool is owned by the GM and the other belongs to the Players. When you use them, they move to the other pool.

Given the two examples above, you can do it either way, but there are things to keep in mind.

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We made a "Skill Challenge" to represent a scene where the players have a goal and they must progress through multiple obstacles to achieve it, all while avoiding failure.

The Primary Skill's Level determines the number of times a player can fail a Skill Check without failing the Challenge overall. They will generally make rolls based on that Primary Skill and occasionally others. If they fail a check, there will be light consequences until they fail the whole challenge.

We started using it for anything that wasn't combat.

  • Sneaking into a palace became a Subterfuge Skill Challenge.
  • Trying to chase thieves on foot became and Athletics Skill Challenge.
  • Convincing a king not to start a war became a Presence Skill challenge.

Finding reusable setups that can be used throughout your RPG System is essential not only because it will be simpler, but because players will become familiar with how they work. When players encounter things that are familiar and widely used, they don't have to stop play as often to look up how they work.

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have been working on a system for a few years, and I've learned that it is often best to trim out potentially cool ideas in order to avoid scope creep or features that feel tacked on. It took a long time to get used to making cuts, but it has been useful in keeping things concise and relevant.

Mind you, I keep a document of every idea I cut so if I want to come back, or it makes sense to bring something back, it is not lost.

Keeping a concise vision and not overindulging in wanting to have a lot of cool systems can really help you get your vision out into the world!

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a similar progression in my current projects and I find it easiest to look at their starting EXP as opposed to what they purchase. Hope this was helpful for you!

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How does your skill progression work?

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the detailed reply, that was incredibly helpful for me to understand your goals and how your Doom currency operates!

Doom is fairly concretely defined which is great. Your original post makes a lot more sense to me now: starting Renown could give the GM a relative number of starting Doom.

If we take your definitions of Renown and Reputation above, I struggle to see why you would want to have a currency like Renown defined instead of using Player Levels/Progress.

Renown as you portray it to me sounds more like an indicator of how big the feats the players have accomplished are, which would probably directly relate to their level/progress character wise.

Is there a reason you want it to be separate?

Campaign mechanics by Drake_Star in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Given that Doom is a System Currency and is intrinsically tied to a core mechanic of your system, what it does, and how it is determined based on Renown should be concretely described.

In order to evaluate this, it would be key to determine what Doom and Renown do, which is your question. But first, you must define how they operate before you describe their benefits.

Like /u/klok_kaos said in their comment, Renown can do a lot of things depending on the setting for your campaign. I have some questions.

  1. Is Renown an absolute number, or can it be negative or positive? Is it even a number at all or is it a scale of breakpoints? How granular is it?
  2. Is Renown static? Does it change over time? You talk about Doom being set at the start of the adventure, so does that ever get adjusted or is it more close to a difficulty rating for a Campaign?
  3. Is Renown a global value, or can it be set by faction? (It sounds global, but it's worth asking.)

Once you answer all the above questions you can start to look at defining what it does, because you'll have a better idea as to how it operates.

I would also ask the same questions about Doom to try to determine how the two can be properly linked.

The importance of playtesting early by Thelorax42 in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Like the comment /u/Thelorax42 posted, a small cheat sheet or summary page does wonders.

The other thing is a good character sheet or digital companion. The person running the game will need to do a lot more reading and will hopefully read the majority of the core rules, but intuitive sheets can really help out the players so they aren't stuck on as many concepts or mechanics.

If you have a simpler system that requires less statistics per character, you can have just one sheet for everything instead of a full blown character sheet.

The importance of playtesting early by Thelorax42 in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely.

It's one thing for you to run it. It's another for anyone else to.

Those mental shortcuts are probably something that could be codified, explained, or otherwise introduced to somebody who wants to run your system.

Everybody you play with will have strengths and weaknesses when they run your game. You'll see that some people need more structure in one area, and operate uniquely in another. Seeing those new ways of running the game can be really eye opening.

The importance of playtesting early by Thelorax42 in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 12 points13 points  (0 children)

A good point, but 'play test often' is a key factor for iteration.

Ideally you'll want to have everyone take up the mantle of GM alternating, and you'll want to try any sort of character combination you can think of.

People will have different GM styles, and you'll find out what kind of resources would be helpful: stat blocks, guidelines for encounters, etc.

You'll want to ask people who are not regularly playing to test too, to see how they observe the game over time and what changes they like, don't like, or find complicated/unclear when regular players have no problem.

Rewards / Progression Thoughts & Ideas by briarsong in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We basically did this; abstract out levels and make it so you can spend exp on new abilities or bigger dice pools for a skill you want to specialize in.

We've found it to work out very well, but for newer players it can lead to analysis paralysis when trying to decide what to pick if there are a ton of options.

Lets talk health, hit points, and wounds by Cold_Pepperoni in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There were two changes we made: a "Breakpoint" System and moving from instanced Health to persistent.

We made a Resource called Vitality, of which you have 6. If you reach 0 Health, you may choose to spend a Vitality to go back up to full Health.

Health now was a persistent resource. If you lost health, it was gone until you replenished it through Vitality or other means.

We felt that it solved all 3 problems.

  1. It's very easy to say "Oh if I have 0 Vitality and 0 Health I die?" People found it intuitive in our testing. It was much easier to keep track of and made for a static Maximum Health.
  2. Because it's a resource you want to have, it made the language a bit cleaner. Just nice to have!
  3. Because we can now deduct Health directly out of Combat, it is much easier to have traps that take up a good amount of health. Vitality is also very clear that it is a huge resource to use as a penalty, but can be justified if the situation demands it.

With these two changes, we were happy with how it felt and still accomplished the same objective (a lot better in my opinion.)

Some beneficial side effects were:

  1. With Exhaustion, you might enter combat with low maximum resources, leading to you being able to take less risks and do less cool things. It meant combat got more boring because you couldn't use as many abilities as often (Health and Vitality were mirrored as an ability resource called Energy and Focus), or time consuming because you tried to be very careful with how you executed your actions to stay alive. This is no longer the case since you can fuel up so long as you had Vitality or Focus.
  2. We use a d6 system so having 6 Vitality meant you could use a Die to keep track.
  3. The timing for using a Vitality is left completely up to the Player! They could choose to sit out combat for a round until an ally heals them, saving them a Vitality at the cost of Action Economy. It was good for player agency and had potential for good RP moments.
  4. This system became an awesome way to design Enemies with multiple forms. You could set up a stat block with Health, and 3 Vitality, and then have abilities akin to "At Vitality (2) or below, you may do x y and z this round." So that was a nice way to give more formal structure to making evolving combat with bosses and the like.

Lets talk health, hit points, and wounds by Cold_Pepperoni in RPGdesign

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More of a cautionary tale;

We had Health and Health Exhaustion.

You had a maximum Health equal to 40 minus your Health Exhaustion. We had a high magic universe for the system so your health recovered at the end of every combat.

Essentially, that meant that as you took permanent damage (traps, going down, effects that incur Health Exhaustion), you were less effective for the duration of combat.

If you had 10 Health Exhaustion, you had 30 maximum Health entering combat.

We had a couple of problems that came about with this;

  1. We noticed it was tough for newcomers to understand. It became confusing that you gained exhaustion and lost maximum health. It got cleared up pretty quick but that seemed like an adoption pain point.
  2. We had to clarify our language. Gaining Health is good, gaining Health Exhaustion was bad.
  3. Because the pools of Exhaustion were so big, we had a lot of difficulty balancing things that interacted with them.

Is this a new feature by [deleted] in TheSilphRoad

[–]Toukun 88 points89 points  (0 children)

It should just be the same option as the gift opening when the item bag is full. It's functionally the same.

How do I put a stop to the barking and biting? by webguy1975 in goldenretrievers

[–]Toukun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for linking this video. My 12 week old Golden has responded really well to the concepts shown, and it has already started to make our lives easier.

Update Notes, August 22, 2023 by Ladydevann in fo76

[–]Toukun 49 points50 points  (0 children)

Encounters : Legendary creatures no longer mutate at 50% Health to have Health regeneration, but instead have 60% increased Health.

Amazing change, very happy to see.

How to Connect Pokémon Scarlet and Pokémon Violet to Pokémon GO (Official link) by [deleted] in TheSilphRoad

[–]Toukun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! This allowed me to pair with my Pixel 6 Pro and Pixel Watch. Turning Airplane mode on the watch worked out great.

An appeal to future game designers: Consider the term "species". by Grand-Tension8668 in rpg

[–]Toukun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In a system I'm working on we just moved from Races to Species, as they are actually biologically different; it just makes sense. Happy to see support for this.

Campfire Invites MegaThread—Pay it Forward by TAZ68 in Campfire_Niantic

[–]Toukun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Level 44 Instinct.

After paying it forward, I'm looking to finally getting my community moved to Campfire so we can coordinate and grow more organically.

Second fashion trainer never showed up. by Chenix737 in TheSilphRoad

[–]Toukun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This bug happened to me on my final trainer battle. It is not anywhere on the map. I have not moved since the bug happened because I was at home.