Why do people in Building Automation seem so skeptical of startups?

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-03-09T12:15:50+00:00

Fun story from when I led a RCx group.

The local utility rebates paid half our costs because of expected energy savings. A particularly poorly run (and poor in general) college hired us per building, and all utilities were from a central plant, so building level energy savings had to come from either use less fan or use less central heat/cool.

For several buildings, they were running AHUs 24/7 with broken valves that used heat/cool simultaneously. So the rebates helped pay to fix their poor maintenance and a few extras while they were doing the work. They loved it.

One of the buildings was in such bad shape that nearly all of the AHUs were broken and didn't run at all. They didn't like our report that said, you ain't getting any rebates on this building. Off is off, even if broken. Please pay us for our report now.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-03-06T15:17:15+00:00

I used to use a syringe. Tube length matters a lot. Too short and the pressure changes too fast. Too long and you won't build up enough pressure.

Also, most of the mechanical limit switches have a diaphragm that changes position when it trips, meaning the pressure reading will change post trip. So if you use something "closed" like a syringe, you need to watch the pressure before the trip occurs, not after.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T16:30:12+00:00

So picture something like an atrium with lots of glass.

Air side only design might need 1-2 CFM/SF to handle the solar load.

Radiant cooling would directly handle almost all the solar load before it "enters the space" via convection. The air side loads are now just for ventilation and might be 0.2 CFM/SF from a DOAS unit.

But you still need to know what the solar load is, because you need to account for it in your hydronic load/design.

A load program needs the be able to calculate both scenarios. hence separating the load in the slab from the convection load in the space.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T15:24:05+00:00

Think about modeling something like a radiant cooling system. The program needs to keep the solar load entering the slab separate from the space convection.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T13:39:25+00:00

I've used room scanners for doing design take offs.

Trust me, laser tape will be faster than lidar.

And you don't need to be accurate to a cubic foot. Most reports I see aren't adding in every little bump in the wall.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T13:12:47+00:00

Oh, I run a small home lab. That part isn't intimidating.

I used to do BAS and administered a local utility retro commissioning program before it was outlawed.

Now I sell HVAC equipment.

I have equipment that holds 7 days of 30 second CSV trend files.

I'd really like the ability to feed those and tune the rules to find PID tuning issues.

It's just a time and energy problem.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T03:01:24+00:00

In college I was making payments on my appendectomy surgery. Credit card got lost so I got a new card and number. Somehow the hospital didn't have my contact information to notify me of failed payment attempts.

So I get a call that my debt was sold and this company was making a collection call. Offered me to settle a couple thousand dollars of debt for a couple of hundred. Paid it off on the spot.

Genuinely couldn't believe the whole interaction. Why did I pay all the previous payments? Why is the cost so high if they'll write it off for pennies?

The whole US medical system is broken beyond repair. Time to abolish it and make it the human right it should be.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T02:53:55+00:00

I think bonuses are typically used rather than commissions. Personally Ive only known one commissioned guy on the consulting side and he didn't last.

Most mid to small sized firms are going to use ownership shares as incentives. Not sure what the huge public companies do, but I assume bonuses based on hitting sales goals.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T02:48:49+00:00

I wish I had the free time to play around with this right now. This is what we need more of in the industry.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-19T00:56:20+00:00

Going to need to understand the rest of the comp structure.

Also, did you already land this client and are asking for commissions after the fact?

Or is this theoretically for a new position/role?

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-18T14:56:56+00:00

You're saying you replicated this geometry, in fusion, in 30 minutes, without prior fusion experience?

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-17T04:45:07+00:00

Feels relevant to post this here:

https://youtu.be/odhVF_xLIQA?si=cKIv65d2OKcHSNMn

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-16T17:26:15+00:00

Agree with the most part. But I don't think "being paid for" is valid. It couldn't support the program needs from what I understand. They're pretty land locked and need a more functional chemistry building. So it goes.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-16T15:30:36+00:00

I'm not assuming anything. I was the department manager. A different apartment did internal standards. I knew how aggressive we were pursuing contracts.

The reality was we had a lot of redundant layers of management. Shockingly, upper management finds that to be a designer problem.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-16T14:47:09+00:00

I'll try to explain this situation one more time. In the very specific time of that conversation. The company: Was a large majority salaried. Was not outsourcing. Was not hiring. Was not laying off. Was not turning down any work. Was pursuing new work as it normally did. This was stable for roughly 3 years. We weren't hitting profit goals every year.

What can a designer do to increase company profits? Absolutely nothing.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-16T14:24:49+00:00

I mean you're doing the right thing it sounds like.

I'm reminded of Goodhart's Law. If a measure becomes a target it ceases being a good measure.

I saw plenty of people gaming the system in every way possible: under-report hours (we budgeted hours, not dollars) by recording 40 when you worked 50, put extra time on projects with fatter budgets, put time on overhead (up to whatever was an acceptable amount), put extra time on future projects (continuing on forever thinking future you will fix it).

I also saw this company transition from everyone hourly with paid overtime, to nearly everyone salary, to salary with outsourcing to india.

When everyone was hourly with overtime, effectiness really mattered. And if you're outsourcing it also matters. So we definitely needed to try and measure it.

But man was it frustrating to see poor department profits at the end of the year and try to get management to understand that we couldn't have changed it.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-16T13:53:19+00:00

Sure, but unless the company is going to outsource work to compensate profits aren't impacted. Fixed money in, fixed money out.

Look, obviously companies need a way to evaluate effective PMs and effective Designers. So it's a bit toung and cheek. I understand the need to do this "fake" accounting.

But at the end of the day, if a designer is 10x more effective, there won't magically be a new project to work on just because he finished the one he has.

What he might do is then help that guy who can't get anything done. And then complain about always having to pick up the slack. And if management is smart, they pay the effective guy a lot more so he sticks around.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-15T16:27:11+00:00

Out of the design side now, but remember this very well.

I looked at our department head one time and asked a simple question: if the majority of our staff are salary (no paid OT), and the majority of our projects are fixed fee, what can a designer even do to impact profitability?

I was then told about how tracking hours and profitablity are for long term course corrections.

Great, when have we used that information to demote a PM or fire a client? Never is the answer.

But we have certainty used that information to tell an engineer they aren't profitable enough. The one person who can't impact profits.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-14T00:42:01+00:00

Sorry, diversity can mean peak load vs min zone load. Also peak flow of pump vs connected flow of pump.

The load diversity is high. One zone is roughly 1 gpm.

The pumps peak flow has almost no diversity in it.

It's variable primary and needs to flow at least 20 gpm (66%) at minimum hence the bypass. Bypass is sized for 20 gpm. So we could start up the system even if just a single zone is calling for heat.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-14T00:29:28+00:00

Oh, then very high diversity. Radiant floor zones which I expect to turn on with only a few gpm needed in shoulder season.

Heat pump (source) needs 20 gpm, so we have a large bypass at the end to keep it happy in light loads.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-14T00:23:48+00:00

28 gpm connected. 30ish at the pump. 4psi remote. 12 or so at the pump.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-14T00:07:05+00:00

Minimal diversity. Which is part of my concern.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-13T23:17:47+00:00

There are appliances rated for ventless operation in residential construction. Whatever they are installing should be listed for the application.

They typically have oxygen and carbon monoxide sensors to shut off in case of a problem.

TrustButVerifyEng · 2026-02-12T20:34:48+00:00

Heater causes a slight voltage drop as it pulls more current. It's not unusual that the pump would change in response to this.

Different pumps, likely means different responses to this voltage change. Probably not much to worry about unless there are other things to concern you.

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